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Condensing EP's skills

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Sat, 2015-06-27 00:35

Noble Pigeon Noble Pigeon's picture

Condensing EP's skills

Has anyone done this? I'm starting to find the current skill list for EP is way too bloated and I've considered reducing the amount of skills. So far I've decided I'm going to use the optional rule in Transhuman that eliminates Networking as a skill, instead players roll directly against their Networking skills. Any bonuses from backgrounds at character creation would instead give them a bonus when using social skills related to your connections. Protocol really has no use, so I'd eliminate that. Persuasion, Deception and to a lesser extent, Kinesics, would take its place. Impersonation and Disguise would probably also be tucked into Deception, though I'm not sure about that yet. Disguise and Impersonation should definitely just become one skill. I'm really unsure about the Psi skills. I don't want to combine ALL of them but I don't feel like there should be three separate skills. Another musing: are language skills really necessary? This is apparently a setting where instantaneous, flawless translation is ubiquitous. AIs can have a language skill of 80 and have a max Knowledge skill of 90, so the whole argument on how "local dialects/slang terms would mess things up" doesn't hold a lot of weight. Loaded with the right skillsofts they'd be able to provide people with instant translation with literally no need for anyone to speak anything but whatever language they were raised with.

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Sat, 2015-06-27 02:36

uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture

The language one always gives

The language one always gives me mixed ideas about the setting, is Google Translate perfect or should it matter that one damn character insists on speaking only one language and the rest of the party know the setting's lingua franca but not his language?! So confusing.

—

Exhuman, and Humanitarian.

Sat, 2015-06-27 03:00

mellonbread mellonbread's picture

If you're going to have

If you're going to have players rolling against their rep for Networking tests (which in my opinion is a good thing, I understand the rationale for reputation vs ability to capitalize on it being measured separately, but I think the default system is asinine) you should probably increase the cost of rep. Currently it's very cheap, which is counterbalanced by the requirement that players purchase a Networking skill to use it with. Beyond that I'd merge the combat skills, probably into something like Hand Weapons (Clubs and Blades), Unarmed (Unarmed) and Ranged Weapons (Kinetic, Beam, Spray and Seeker), although the ranged weapons have enough variation within each category that it's not a huge deal to have them all separate. Not sure where I'd put Gunnery and Throwing. Whatever the case, the practice of purchasing Exotic Weapons as their own skills instead of just as specializations for existing weapon families needs to stop. Fray stays its own skill, but Climbing and Freerunning would be combined into just Freerunning, or a generic Athletics skill. I think Freefall should stay its own skill, but I can understand the rationale for merging it. It also might be wise to move Hardware and Medicine from Active to Knowledge skills.

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Did you hear the one about the guy who became a fence?

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Sat, 2015-06-27 12:00

Leetsepeak Leetsepeak's picture

In my group, we combined Psi

In my group, we combined Psi Control and Psi Assault into Psi Control, so there's just two Psi skills, Psi Control and Psi Sense. We also combined Clubs and Blades into Melee Weapons. I think that's all the skill stuff we've done. We've also decided that i-rep uses simplified Networking rules, where you instead roll your value in i-rep rather than a networking skill. Mind you, we also don't really allow you to buy i-rep with rez points, it's something the characters are earning in the story.

Sat, 2015-06-27 12:28

SquireNed

Leetsepeak wrote:In my group,

Leetsepeak wrote:
In my group, we combined Psi Control and Psi Assault into Psi Control, so there's just two Psi skills, Psi Control and Psi Sense. We also combined Clubs and Blades into Melee Weapons. I think that's all the skill stuff we've done. We've also decided that i-rep uses simplified Networking rules, where you instead roll your value in i-rep rather than a networking skill. Mind you, we also don't really allow you to buy i-rep with rez points, it's something the characters are earning in the story.

Going a step further, I would get rid of all non-ranged combat skill separation, and just combine it into hand-to-hand. It's so close to worthless that it's not balanced to charge more for any one category, and if a player finds an exploit it would probably involve only one skill anyway.

Sat, 2015-06-27 13:12

MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture

I use Protocol in my games.

***A Double Post**** Sorry

Sat, 2015-06-27 13:14

MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture

I use Protocol in my games.

I use Protocol in my games. "Is this drug meet up gone bad? How do I approach this scum barge guy about asking for payment for this job? Ect ect ect Keniseicsisncineincse doesn't give you manners and etiquette. --- I also personally wouldnt lump all the range weapons together. It suggests there no operational difference or firing difference from slugs and LASERSs or the like. Something tells me, you have to aim quite differently with a DEW then with a slug.

Sat, 2015-06-27 14:52

uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture

I would argue against the

I would argue against the combining of Network and Rep simply because you can be given rep scores to use as part of an identity while Networking represents your skill in leveraging your good name (or your legend's good name) to get things. For the purpose of spycraft and the like, the rep being seperate from Networking makes sense to me. But if combining them works for others, that too does make some sense.

—

Exhuman, and Humanitarian.

Sat, 2015-06-27 16:10

UnitOmega

Generally, for core EP I don

Generally, for core EP I don't alter the skill list. I know some people like to, but the game usually gives you a lot of points to spread around, and the skill split emphasizes to me how EP is kind of a "devil in the details" game. Defaulting represents where skills are similar, skill points indicates focused learning or training in how they're different. Deception is your ability to lie in situations or conceal the truth, none of which actually would directly relate to how to physically alter your appearance for Disguise (which is an entirely different attribute), and neither technically directly applies to specifically acting as another person enough to convince their close social circles. A stage actor probably has a little Disguise, while a meta-celebrity would have Impersonate, and a grifter would need all three. But one of my idle occasional fancies is an ORE (one roll engine) conversion for EP (for funsies) and because that game typically has a much smaller skill and point spread, I lumped some skills together for purposes. Like crunching most of the computer-type skills into one Computers skill, squishing all Freerun/Climb/Swim into Athletics, etc. Ranged Weapon and Melee Weapon are technically one "skill" but you would delineate by type of weapon.

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H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/

Sat, 2015-06-27 17:43

#10

MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture

I think I would find EP

I think I would find EP terribly dissatisfying with using ORE.

Sun, 2015-06-28 14:04

#11

Lord Koniu Lord Koniu's picture

As a person whose native

As a person whose native tongue is very difficult to learn by foreigners and who has frequent contact with tourist I must say that I reward every attempt to speak my language and every exhibition of genuine interest in my country's affairs with respect and friendliness.I do understand English and German but it's very nice nonetheless. My point is: no software is infallible and it can make mistakes that can get you killed. Also, you can earn yourself some respect when speaking with someone in his native language.And you really need respect when dealing with an angry Yakuza gangster. To justify considerable bonuses you can merge this skill with knowledge of a given community's customs and politics. That way it supports social rolls and is actually useful.

Sun, 2015-06-28 14:54

#12

MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture

I think the lang. skills,

I think the lang. skills, only really come in place when you're in a situation when you can't rely on the real time translation of your Muse. As a Gm, if a player wanted to get some ad hoc plus for being a fluent natural speaker native speaker, I think I could bend that way. Cause you only really need a 20 to be fluent for every day conversations. My impression, though, is you only really need to be more learned in a language to discuss abstract or highly technical subjects. Like, as an ad hoc relationship, I would make, is, that your academics or interest is capped at your lang. skill. As you lack the vocabulary and nuance to discuss the ideas and concepts.

Sun, 2015-06-28 16:20

#13

UnitOmega

Actually, I believe it's

Actually, I believe it's noted specifically under languages that a rating of 50 is considered "fluent" in normal terms, above the normal way skills are treated. I assume a 70+ is good to be considered as good as a "Native" speaker, the way that rule works. Another thing to think about with languages that it is a Knowledge skill, and thus good for complementary skill bonuses. Being able to speak in the right language could easily assist certain skill checks. Otherwise, I mostly use Language to check for common language between PCs (Because waiting for that machine translation in the middle of an X-risk scenario might not be ideal) and as general RP flavor. All knowledge skills (and skills in general) say a lot about a character, though I know some people don't subscribe to this ("hurr durr - big numbers mean it's not rp"). I've also written about weird pidgin languages which you need to know one or more components of to understand decently. But relatedly, even if you cut out Language, I would not recommend the "Exotic Language" skill from Panopticon being removed. Since it covers neo-languages (Neo-Cetacean), exotic or dead tribal languages, and non-verbal sign languages, that's definitely not the kind of thing you can as easily auto-translate.

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H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/

Sun, 2015-06-28 17:53

#14

MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture

Where is that in the books?

Where is that in the books? Cause at 20 you have "Basic operator's proficiency (driver's license, gun permit, high school diploma" Which reads to me, that you can hold an every day conversation.

Sun, 2015-06-28 18:58

#15

UnitOmega

Under Languages in the skill

Under Languages in the skill list (the section which actually describes how skills work): "A speaker is considered fluent at a skill level of 50; anything above this indicates further refinement in technical vocabulary, accents, and knowledge of dialects." So at 50, you're a fluent speaker. You can hold any day-to-day conversation, no roll, but you don't necessarily speak like a native (as you probably have a non-native accent) or get into dialects and technical language might be past you. 20 (barring of course, EP is rife with [i]horrendous[/i] levels of abstracting for some things) is probably the "tourist" level. You've taken a semester or two, and can ask where things are, say your greetings, order food or other services. That's maybe an "every day" conversation, but doesn't cover colloquialisms, a lot of social context and you probably still sound like you're talking out of a phrasebook. Of course, y'know, 20 is something most people default to, so it's not exactly a huge measure of skill.

—

H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/

Tue, 2015-06-30 08:54

#16

ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture

Must...Post...On...All...Threads...

I've reclassified Protocol, Disguise and Medicine as Knowledge skills, but that's all. Defaulting handles the rest. ... Oh, and I use Exotic Ranged Weapon for modern day firearms.

UnitOmega wrote:
But one of my idle occasional fancies is an ORE (one roll engine) conversion for EP (for funsies) and because that game typically has a much smaller skill and point spread, I lumped some skills together for purposes.

[Trollin'] ORE Sucks! GUMSHOE FTW! :P [/Trollin']

—

In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?

Fri, 2015-07-03 00:26

#17

ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture

indeed you can not lump KEW's

indeed you can not lump KEW's and DEWs into the same skill simply because of kews having a ballistic arc path instead of direct path and compensating for atmospheric deflection In my opinion high language skills is a must for any infiltrator or spy. not only will they need to be able to speak like a native but they truly have to mimic a native down to a specific accent