Welcome! These forums will be deactivated by the end of this year. The conversation continues in a new morph over on Discord! Please join us there for a more active conversation and the occasional opportunity to ask developers questions directly! Go to the PS+ Discord Server.

Durability is or is not like Hit Points?

18 posts / 0 new
Last post
Tue, 2015-01-27 18:00
#1
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
Durability is or is not like Hit Points?
Do you accumulate damage until you reach your DUR? Then unconscious until DR? Then Dead? OR Durability is like hit points, and you subtract from them until 0 (unconscious) and then how does DR work then? Dead when you reach a negative number equal to the DR? This seems like it is probably obvious and I am missing something. MRDR and Stun damage both imply DUR like HP, but the Death Rating and Wound stuff seems like it would work better the first way ( DUR=/=HP)
—
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Top
Tue, 2015-01-27 19:15
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
as i have used it DUR is your
as i have used it DUR is your hit points and when reduced to 0 you are unconscious and then you have a buffer until your death rating
Top
Tue, 2015-01-27 21:54
UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
Durability rating is
Durability rating is technically hit points. But one way that may help is not to consider it counting down, but rather that Damage and Wounds tracks up. Similar to how you have Lucidity, which is tracked by "Stress Value". So, when you reach your Durability rating for your morph, you fall unconscious and begin bleeding out (and you take additional damage per round or per minute or something. Either way, you're dying). You are not flat out dead, beyond a normal hope of recussitation - they better get your head in the nanny bag quick - dead, until you take DV with a total value of equal or greater than your DR. And, in fact, unless you're very tough or very lucky, if people continue shooting you past DUR to hit your DR, there's probably not much left of you. That being said, like any GM with more important things to do, I tend to scratch off most enemies when they hit DUR 0 and leave the picture, because they're not important.
—
H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/
Top
Tue, 2015-01-27 22:42
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
ORCACommander wrote:as i have
ORCACommander wrote:
as i have used it DUR is your hit points and when reduced to 0 you are unconscious and then you have a buffer until your death rating
This is the "DUR == HP" school, and I am confused because you can go to a negative value (past 0 DUR) equal to your DR? Example: 35 DUR splicer, has a DR of 53... so if you sustained 53 damage in a single hit, you are dead or if you sustain 88 points of damage, you are dead?
UnitOmega wrote:
Durability rating is technically hit points. But one way that may help is not to consider it counting down, but rather that Damage and Wounds tracks up. Similar to how you have Lucidity, which is tracked by "Stress Value". So, when you reach your Durability rating for your morph, you fall unconscious and begin bleeding out (and you take additional damage per round or per minute or something. Either way, you're dying). You are not flat out dead, beyond a normal hope of recussitation - they better get your head in the nanny bag quick - dead, until you take DV with a total value of equal or greater than your DR. And, in fact, unless you're very tough or very lucky, if people continue shooting you past DUR to hit your DR, there's probably not much left of you.
This is the "DUR =/= HP" school of thinking, which I kind of lean towards, but MRDR gives you bonus temporary DUR that are subtracted first (like temporary Hit Points), and Stun says that you use your current DUR (plus energy armor) to determine the number to roll under for not passing out, thus the more damage you take, the harder it would be to resist passing out if DUR were HP.
—
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Top
Tue, 2015-01-27 23:48
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
No Lets Say I have Dur 10 and
No Lets Say I have Dur 10 and DR 15. you have 5 buffer points before you are dead So yes 53 damage would be instant gib I forgot about the bleed out rule
Top
Wed, 2015-01-28 00:36
ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
What in the solar system or
What in the [i]solar system[/i] or beyond has DUR 10? A neotenic Scurrier? An origami drone?
—
Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name. [url=http://tinyurl.com/mfcapss]My EP Character Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/lbpsb93]Thread for my Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/obu5adp]The Five Orange Pips[/url]
Top
Wed, 2015-01-28 05:06
Lorsa Lorsa's picture
A Flat with 3 levels of Frail
A Flat with 3 levels of Frail? Durability works like hit points in the sense that loosing it (unless you take wounds) does nothing until you reach your Durability level. Then you fall unconscious. Your Death Rating is how much total punishment you can take before you are dead. So if you have already reached your DUR in damage, then the extra damage you can take before dead is [DR - DUR]. Whether you choose to count your damage up until you reach your DUR level, or subtract from your DUR until you reach 0 is entirely up to you. It doesn't matter a single bit in terms of game mechanics. Same with hit points. It doesn't matter if you add damage until you reach your hit points or subtract until you reach zero. So if you have 50 DUR and 75 DR, you can either add your damage together, and when you reach 50 you fall unconscious, and when you reach 75 you are dead. OR you could subtract damage from 50, and when you reach 0 you are unconscious, and when you reach -25 you are dead. Whichever way you choose should be based on what you find is easier or quicker to do. Wounds of course move away from the "hit point" function and gives you penalties to actions if the damage taken is too large ("too large" meaning higher than 1/5th of your DUR). So while DUR works exactly like hit points, the added wound mechanic means that the damage system as a whole does not.
—
Lorsa is a Forum moderator [color=red]Red text is for moderator stuff[/color]
Top
Wed, 2015-01-28 10:06
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:What
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
What in the [i]solar system[/i] or beyond has DUR 10? A neotenic Scurrier? An origami drone?
Your missing the point of my post. I chose small numbers for easy math not as game specific examples.
Top
Wed, 2015-01-28 11:53
ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
ORCACommander wrote
ORCACommander wrote:
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
What in the [i]solar system[/i] or beyond has DUR 10? A neotenic Scurrier? An origami drone?
[u]You're[/u] missing the point of my post. I chose small numbers for easy math not as game specific examples.
FTFY. And I got the point. I just found myself boggling at the idea of something with such a low DUR rating that I just have to know what actually has a DUR that low.
—
Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name. [url=http://tinyurl.com/mfcapss]My EP Character Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/lbpsb93]Thread for my Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/obu5adp]The Five Orange Pips[/url]
Top
Wed, 2015-01-28 12:21
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
Lorsa wrote:A Flat with 3
Lorsa wrote:
A Flat with 3 levels of Frail? Durability works like hit points in the sense that loosing it (unless you take wounds) does nothing until you reach your Durability level. Then you fall unconscious. Your Death Rating is how much total punishment you can take before you are dead. So if you have already reached your DUR in damage, then the extra damage you can take before dead is [DR - DUR]. Whether you choose to count your damage up until you reach your DUR level, or subtract from your DUR until you reach 0 is entirely up to you. It doesn't matter a single bit in terms of game mechanics. Same with hit points. It doesn't matter if you add damage until you reach your hit points or subtract until you reach zero. So if you have 50 DUR and 75 DR, you can either add your damage together, and when you reach 50 you fall unconscious, and when you reach 75 you are dead. OR you could subtract damage from 50, and when you reach 0 you are unconscious, and when you reach -25 you are dead. Whichever way you choose should be based on what you find is easier or quicker to do. Wounds of course move away from the "hit point" function and gives you penalties to actions if the damage taken is too large ("too large" meaning higher than 1/5th of your DUR). So while DUR works exactly like hit points, the added wound mechanic means that the damage system as a whole does not.
Counting up makes the most sense. My recollection of Shock attacks left out a parenthesis, adding it clarifies that counting up makes most sense.
Quote:
A biomorph struck with a shock weapon must make a DUR + Energy Armor Test (using their current DUR score, reduced by damage they have taken).
—
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Top
Wed, 2015-01-28 16:45
UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
I mean, to me, DUR is still
I mean, to me, DUR is still HP. It is a point-value number which has a limit, and at that limit, you're out of the fight. As was said, you can count up or down, the point of contention is when you hit DV total equal to your DUR, you're out. MRDR adds temporary points of DUR which are effectively ablative, just like ablative patches adds effectively temporary AV. I presume the "counted first" indicates no requirement for healing time or wound penalties when DV is taken equal to that extra rating. However, DUR is also effectively a stat, and remaining DUR rating is used as a component to rolling tests for several things (Shock, as noted, and I think some toxins or pathogens use DUR rolls, which go to DURx2 with Medichines). DR is just like negative HP. Since it's just a value rating, and isn't rolled anywhere, it's safe to assume that it is just a mechanical stat. When your DV taken exceeds your DR, which is derived from your Durability as a stat, you are D-E-D dead. Addition and subtraction are the same mechanic, but in different directions. You take 10 DV, your DUR is 30, so you have 20 Durability left, adding or subtracting. That is the amount of damage you can take before you're out. At 0, you have until a DV total of 45 before you're completely Dead. I say counting up, because of a sheet formatting thing, I use a Google docs format for all my characters and distributed to my players, so I have a separate table for DUR/WT/DR as point-values and then to track DV/Wounds/SV/Traumas.
—
H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/
Top
Wed, 2015-01-28 17:43
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
Yeah, the character sheets I
Yeah, the character sheets I have used included a section for damage, wounds, stress, and traumas; so it seemed less like Hit Points in other games (a stat that slowly depletes) and more of a threshold for damage to reach, counting upward. I think I got my answer from this thread. Probably should have just done more research rather than pester the forum!
—
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Top
Thu, 2015-01-29 10:55
Lorsa Lorsa's picture
uwtartarus wrote:Yeah, the
uwtartarus wrote:
Yeah, the character sheets I have used included a section for damage, wounds, stress, and traumas; so it seemed less like Hit Points in other games (a stat that slowly depletes) and more of a threshold for damage to reach, counting upward. I think I got my answer from this thread. Probably should have just done more research rather than pester the forum!
The forum is meant for pestering! If noone pester us with questions, very little will be discussed. If counting up makes most sense to you, then go for it! As I said, mechanically it doesn't really make any difference. I usually count hit points up until I reach my hp total in games like D&D as well, since I do addition faster than subtraction. It's all about style. :)
—
Lorsa is a Forum moderator [color=red]Red text is for moderator stuff[/color]
Top
Fri, 2015-01-30 09:22
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
I Am Confuse.
At the risk of muddying things up, why does counting up make more sense when considering Shock? Surely having your durability go down is easier, as you simply have to add your energy armor to the running total? Similarly, what does the Wound Threshold have to do with how durability's counted in either case?
—
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
Top
Fri, 2015-01-30 10:34
UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
Well, the way I see it, you
Well, the way I see it, you're really tracking DV not DUR, most of the time (And again, formatting, for me and my players this is literally the case). This works for wounds (what matters is that you take DV equal to your WT and then you get a wound, because that's how much damage you took), and kind of works for shock. Shock test is your currently free DUR (i/e, the integrity level of the morph not yet affected by DV) plus energy armor. It might make you have to go back and subtract anyway, but basic math is not a hassle. The "counting up" methodology is more about wrapping your head around it and tracking and formatting than any kind of One True Way. Either is correct, since the whole thing is an abstraction. I mean, how many people bust out their random hit-location dice and see if you lose a limb when you take three wounds at once, despite that in reality, it would be entirely possible for someone to get a limb chopped or blown off with some weapons causing DV.
—
H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/
Top
Fri, 2015-01-30 11:16
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
When I initially read Shock
When I initially read Shock damage I thought I read "current DUR plus energy armor" which implies counting down exactly like hit points. But in rereading it, it looks like it is "(using their current DUR score, reduced by damage they have taken)" which means that I can count up like I prefer. For the purpose of cinematics or what have you, the death of a thousand cuts down't incapacitate like one good hit, so I only apply WT to damage from a single source (e.g. if you have a DUR of 30, WT 6, and ten guys hit you for 3-4 damage, you go from totally combat effective with zero wounds, to unconscious and unable to do anything without taking any wound penalties.) But I have heard Actual Plays where they applied wounds to cumulative damage (e.g. DUR 30, WT 6 guy takes three hits of 4 damage, has accumulated 12 DV, so he has two wounds even though it is from three seperate attacks dealing less than WT damage). So I have no idea if I am doing it right or not but I prefer doing it non-cumulative (requiring one single hit to deal wounds, no death of a thousand cuts thing).
—
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Top
Tue, 2015-02-10 16:21
Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
uwtartarus wrote:
uwtartarus wrote:
For the purpose of cinematics or what have you, the death of a thousand cuts down't incapacitate like one good hit, so I only apply WT to damage from a single source (e.g. if you have a DUR of 30, WT 6, and ten guys hit you for 3-4 damage, you go from totally combat effective with zero wounds, to unconscious and unable to do anything without taking any wound penalties.) But I have heard Actual Plays where they applied wounds to cumulative damage (e.g. DUR 30, WT 6 guy takes three hits of 4 damage, has accumulated 12 DV, so he has two wounds even though it is from three seperate attacks dealing less than WT damage). So I have no idea if I am doing it right or not but I prefer doing it non-cumulative (requiring one single hit to deal wounds, no death of a thousand cuts thing).
That is correct per the core rules:
Core Rules pg 192 wrote:
The damage inflicted from a single attack is then compared to the victim’s Wound Threshold. If the armor modified DV equals or exceeds the Wound Threshold, the character suffers a wound.
There are certain exceptions though, saboteur nanos cause wounds through accumulated damage, and it would probably make sense for certain nano plagues to do the same thing.
Top
Tue, 2015-02-10 16:52
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
Trappedinwikipedia wrote:
Trappedinwikipedia wrote:
There are certain exceptions though, saboteur nanos cause wounds through accumulated damage, and it would probably make sense for certain nano plagues to do the same thing.
Cool, glad that I wasn't the only one reading it this way!
—
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Top