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Netflix for Skillsofts

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Wed, 2013-10-30 10:54
#1
Erenthia Erenthia's picture
Netflix for Skillsofts
Just a random idea I had. Looking at Netflix itself, it's about the cost of buying 1 DVD per month (give or take) but there's the obvious limitations. With that said, it seems like the cost of owning a skillsoft would probably be similar to the cost of a subscription service. So that's my estimate. It's also an open question how long it takes to download and apply skillsofts, but since the books don't mention anything prohibitives I would guess that it doesn't take long to do either. Probably not something you could do in combat, but pretty trivial otherwise. What do you think the social implications are for such a technology? (In EP or IRL)
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The end really is coming. What comes after that is anyone's guess.
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Wed, 2013-10-30 12:29
Decimator Decimator's picture
Skillsoft subscriptions are a
Skillsoft subscriptions are a neat idea. As long as they're connected to the mesh and the subscription server is accessible, they have 40 in whatever skill they're trying to use?
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Thu, 2013-10-31 00:48
nerdnumber1 nerdnumber1's picture
Knowing the average group of
Knowing the average group of PCs, you'd end up with infinite pirated skillsofts. I would probably have some limit on downloads like 8 per month or something similar.
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Thu, 2013-10-31 14:24
Decimator Decimator's picture
nerdnumber1 wrote:Knowing the
nerdnumber1 wrote:
Knowing the average group of PCs, you'd end up with infinite pirated skillsofts. I would probably have some limit on downloads like 8 per month or something similar.
That wouldn't be how it worked. It would be a client-server model, where those artificial neurons provided by the skillsoft implant don't actually hold any data. Instead, you tell the server what skill you need, and the server tells the artificial neurons what to do as you perform the skill. Don't try to add drawbacks where they aren't logical. The real limitation of a client-server skillsoft is that it's useless when you don't have access to the server. Just like Netflix. If the PCs manage to subvert a skillware server, download all the skillware, and set up their own server, I say more power to them, and Firewall just became that much more effective.
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Thu, 2013-10-31 16:44
nerdnumber1 nerdnumber1's picture
Decimator wrote:nerdnumber1
Decimator wrote:
nerdnumber1 wrote:
Knowing the average group of PCs, you'd end up with infinite pirated skillsofts. I would probably have some limit on downloads like 8 per month or something similar.
That wouldn't be how it worked. It would be a client-server model, where those artificial neurons provided by the skillsoft implant don't actually hold any data. Instead, you tell the server what skill you need, and the server tells the artificial neurons what to do as you perform the skill. Don't try to add drawbacks where they aren't logical. The real limitation of a client-server skillsoft is that it's useless when you don't have access to the server. Just like Netflix. If the PCs manage to subvert a skillware server, download all the skillware, and set up their own server, I say more power to them, and Firewall just became that much more effective.
I'd think that client-server would be too slow for certain skillsofts to be effective. Sure knowledge skills would be fine, but how much lag can you have for freerunning, blades, piloting: aircraft, etc. before you run into problems when you're trying some tricky maneuvers? You do not want your block maneuver buffering while in combat. Then again, there are plenty of skills that don't require fraction of a second timing that would work, so you could limit skills to those or decrease the value of time sensitive skills (at least when there is heavy site traffic). Then again, signal and communication lag tends to be ignored when jamming, so I guess this isn't too different. An interesting plot hook if it is client-server like this would be a privacy issue. If your skill ware is sending enough real to data to run a skill-soft on a remote server whenever you use this service, you are giving a lot of information about exactly what you are doing and when. If you're hacking something, you are going to have to give your skill soft a lot of information about what you're hacking, if not exactly what you are hacking probably enough to figure it out after the fact. What about weapon skills, that will really be hard to explain (but not necessarily hard to fake with spoofing software). By tracing the mesh I'd of the device, the company should be able to tell where, when, and how you use the skills that you are renting. Many might see this as a necessary evil, or trust the corp to keep data confidential, but this would be unacceptable for Firewall agents in most cases. More disturbing would be if the skill soft server had the functionality to change the skill soft impulses into something dangerous, like suddenly the pseudo-muscle-memory from the blades skillsoft makes you stab yourself before you can realize what you're doing.
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Thu, 2013-10-31 22:47
Cyber-Dave Cyber-Dave's picture
And this, friends, is how the
And this, friends, is how the Exurgent Virus goes, well, viral. :P Seems like this idea is ripe for some great story ideas.
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Wed, 2013-11-06 21:25
thezombiekat thezombiekat's picture
To work effectively for most
To work effectively for most skills I think it would have to actually transfer the skill soft to your skill wires. That said I don’t see a big piracy problem. For a lot of people piracy isn’t so much about saving the cost of rental as it is about saving inconvenience of going to the video store and planning what to watch when while avoiding the cost of full ownership on something you will use only occasionally. If Netflix was available in Australia I would no longer feel a strong desire to pirate movies. Netskills could do quite well. You could probably change out your skills within a handful of seconds provided there was a server within real time communications range. And with a skill 40 cap on skill softs, as well as the casual attitude EP takes to balancing wealth we are not going to cause balance issues even if the PCs do choose to hack the system and pirate all the skill softs. (there would be some DRM but it would be crackable)
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Thu, 2013-11-07 09:27
Decimator Decimator's picture
thezombiekat wrote:To work
thezombiekat wrote:
To work effectively for most skills I think it would have to actually transfer the skill soft to your skill wires.
Why?
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Thu, 2013-11-07 14:36
nerdnumber1 nerdnumber1's picture
thezombiekat wrote:To work
thezombiekat wrote:
To work effectively for most skills I think it would have to actually transfer the skill soft to your skill wires. That said I don’t see a big piracy problem. For a lot of people piracy isn’t so much about saving the cost of rental as it is about saving inconvenience of going to the video store and planning what to watch when while avoiding the cost of full ownership on something you will use only occasionally. If Netflix was available in Australia I would no longer feel a strong desire to pirate movies. Netskills could do quite well. You could probably change out your skills within a handful of seconds provided there was a server within real time communications range. And with a skill 40 cap on skill softs, as well as the casual attitude EP takes to balancing wealth we are not going to cause balance issues even if the PCs do choose to hack the system and pirate all the skill softs. (there would be some DRM but it would be crackable)
I am somewhat nervous about letting my players get easy access to an arbitrary number of easily hacked skillsofts (forcing them to go through the risk of hacking a secure server is another matter). The client-server model has enough strings attached in terms of privacy risk and the like to be both interesting and useful. Similarly, an open source repository has less liability than a profit-driven corp so I feel justified as GM to introduce occasional bugs to open source software to balance "free" software (unless you use a favor to make sure that someone finds you the most reliable well-patched version available that is confirmed to not be a hypercorp trap). I know balance isn't really stressed in Eclipse Phase, but you really have to be careful with software since the PCs get to keep them after ego-cast/re-sleeve.
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Thu, 2013-11-07 15:05
nerdnumber1 nerdnumber1's picture
Decimator wrote:thezombiekat
Decimator wrote:
thezombiekat wrote:
To work effectively for most skills I think it would have to actually transfer the skill soft to your skill wires.
Why?
Well the limit on 100 skill points suggests that there is some computationally taxing process involved instead of a simple datsbase lookup (which would probably mean you could run an arbitrary number of skill softs). We have to quit thinking of these skillsofts like movies which require no real-time interaction and can buffer information. They would have to work more like a realtime videogame or remote controlled drone, with significant 2-way communication in resl time (except you need to micro-manage specific muscles with finely tuned control). Maybe a hybrid system would be best, where low and mid level sub-routines are downloaded, but actually vital high level organization is reserved for the server. I might go as far as making net-softs require a different augment, similar ro but different than traditional skillware, optimized for their system.
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Thu, 2013-11-07 18:00
The Doctor The Doctor's picture
Decimator wrote:
Decimator wrote:
That wouldn't be how it worked. It would be a client-server model, where those artificial neurons provided by the skillsoft implant don't actually hold any data. Instead, you tell the server what skill you need, and the server tells the artificial neurons what to do as you perform the skill.
That suggests that disruption of the local mesh could cripple PC's by denying them access to their skillsoft licensing server. Hee hee hee...
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Fri, 2013-11-08 00:56
thezombiekat thezombiekat's picture
that's pretty much why.
that's pretty much why. many active skills require very high speed responses, while data storage processing and transfer speeds in EP are arbitrarily fast. ping times are not, still being limited by light lag and indirect routing if nothing else, you only need to look at the effect that a couple of hundred milliseconds of lag can have in FPS games to realize how big the problem can be. unless you have a direct link to the server the system would be unsafe to use for any combat skill, driving skill, movement skill, the paramedic and surgery skills. and if your not close to the server your going to be noticeably slow with social skills
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Fri, 2013-11-08 01:11
thezombiekat thezombiekat's picture
nerdnumber1 wrote
nerdnumber1 wrote:
thezombiekat wrote:
To work effectively for most skills I think it would have to actually transfer the skill soft to your skill wires. That said I don’t see a big piracy problem. For a lot of people piracy isn’t so much about saving the cost of rental as it is about saving inconvenience of going to the video store and planning what to watch when while avoiding the cost of full ownership on something you will use only occasionally. If Netflix was available in Australia I would no longer feel a strong desire to pirate movies. Netskills could do quite well. You could probably change out your skills within a handful of seconds provided there was a server within real time communications range. And with a skill 40 cap on skill softs, as well as the casual attitude EP takes to balancing wealth we are not going to cause balance issues even if the PCs do choose to hack the system and pirate all the skill softs. (there would be some DRM but it would be crackable)
I am somewhat nervous about letting my players get easy access to an arbitrary number of easily hacked skillsofts (forcing them to go through the risk of hacking a secure server is another matter). The client-server model has enough strings attached in terms of privacy risk and the like to be both interesting and useful. Similarly, an open source repository has less liability than a profit-driven corp so I feel justified as GM to introduce occasional bugs to open source software to balance "free" software (unless you use a favor to make sure that someone finds you the most reliable well-patched version available that is confirmed to not be a hypercorp trap). I know balance isn't really stressed in Eclipse Phase, but you really have to be careful with software since the PCs get to keep them after ego-cast/re-sleeve.
My first thought is “its only skill 40, not very good” but I guess they are high cost (although you can trade them between PCs to mitigate that) To be honest if you are that worried about that do you really want to give the PCs access to an arbitrary number of skill softs for this adventure for the cost of one. And using the feed to the server as a way to track them, or to have their enemies give them bad softs is really making it useless to the point that in character they should have known better than to use it at all. So you need to tell them about the down sides, so they probably just won’t take it. So why go to all this bother.
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Fri, 2013-11-08 09:46
Erenthia Erenthia's picture
Wow, I hadn't thought about
Wow, I hadn't thought about the ramifications to the actual game-play, but that's mostly because my players are largely the opposite of typical power-hungry PCs, to such an extent that I find myself more often having to reduce the difficulty of the challenges I throw at them because they unnecessarily hamper themselves - it's quite annoying. What I'm imagining though, is a hab where this service (Netskills! that's a great name) is being rolled out. Now for admittedly a fairly expensive subscription, anyone can have a bachelors degree worth of skill in virtually anything. So for one thing, only the most skilled specialists have anything to pursue in their field. Think about what this would do today. Your computer breaks, you now temporarily have A+, Networking+, MCSE, and CCNA skills all loaded directly into your head. Your car break, you are now a mechanic. Your child asks you an astronomy question, you now have an astronomy degree [i]and[/i] a degree in education. Since most economies (even Rep-based ones) are based on specialized skill-sets, you'd suddenly live in a world where Masters/PhDs have been brought down to the level of a two-year degree (just slightly above what's commonly expected for everyone). What that does to the culture on the hab is something I'm having trouble imagining I'm thinking this should be paired with a specialized predictive AI that monitors what your doing and automatically downloads skills that might be relevant, all in the background without your having to ask. [Edit: Nah, your Muse could probably do that] I'm also thinking about cloud services that might be offered. Especially from a company that has loads and loads of skillsofts. They might have an in-house AI (or AGI) that loads up on relevant skillsofts (perhaps forking and collaborating with itself) to provide consulting services to virtually anyone for virtually any task. It would be something like..MetaGoogle. (Instead of providing information like current Google does, this one provides knowledge). I could see this happening in a distributed way with "message boards" used almost entirely by Muses. That's another interesting possibility: services targeted as Muses. Which brings us back where we started, since AI can make use of skillsofts, Muses might be the primary customers for Netskills. (Mike Hearns talk about Automated Corporations has me thinking along these lines a lot lately).
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The end really is coming. What comes after that is anyone's guess.
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Fri, 2013-11-08 12:10
nerdnumber1 nerdnumber1's picture
thezombiekat wrote
thezombiekat wrote:
nerdnumber1 wrote:
thezombiekat wrote:
To work effectively for most skills I think it would have to actually transfer the skill soft to your skill wires. That said I don’t see a big piracy problem. For a lot of people piracy isn’t so much about saving the cost of rental as it is about saving inconvenience of going to the video store and planning what to watch when while avoiding the cost of full ownership on something you will use only occasionally. If Netflix was available in Australia I would no longer feel a strong desire to pirate movies. Netskills could do quite well. You could probably change out your skills within a handful of seconds provided there was a server within real time communications range. And with a skill 40 cap on skill softs, as well as the casual attitude EP takes to balancing wealth we are not going to cause balance issues even if the PCs do choose to hack the system and pirate all the skill softs. (there would be some DRM but it would be crackable)
I am somewhat nervous about letting my players get easy access to an arbitrary number of easily hacked skillsofts (forcing them to go through the risk of hacking a secure server is another matter). The client-server model has enough strings attached in terms of privacy risk and the like to be both interesting and useful. Similarly, an open source repository has less liability than a profit-driven corp so I feel justified as GM to introduce occasional bugs to open source software to balance "free" software (unless you use a favor to make sure that someone finds you the most reliable well-patched version available that is confirmed to not be a hypercorp trap). I know balance isn't really stressed in Eclipse Phase, but you really have to be careful with software since the PCs get to keep them after ego-cast/re-sleeve.
My first thought is “its only skill 40, not very good” but I guess they are high cost (although you can trade them between PCs to mitigate that) To be honest if you are that worried about that do you really want to give the PCs access to an arbitrary number of skill softs for this adventure for the cost of one. And using the feed to the server as a way to track them, or to have their enemies give them bad softs is really making it useless to the point that in character they should have known better than to use it at all. So you need to tell them about the down sides, so they probably just won’t take it. So why go to all this bother.
I wouldn't make the system useless, just risky to privacy if you do illegal things with it or let enemies with certain connections (or super-intelligent foes) learn about the PCs' use of the product. If the players just use it for the occasional knowledge skill or utillity skill, they should be fine. Hypercorps do have a certain obligation for ensuring privacy and there would be enough users using this system to obscure most uses of the system. It is a risk, but can still be useful if handled carefully.
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Sat, 2013-11-09 01:40
thezombiekat thezombiekat's picture
Not everybody could afford it
Not everybody could afford it however. At expensive (average 20,000) a month and the cash earned based on your rep rules in trans human capping out income at 5,000 a week only the upper crust can afford a subscription. And anarchists only get an expensive favor every 3 months. Dam. Nobody can afford it. Looks like the business model doesn’t work. Unless it is somehow feasible to deliver the service more cheaply and make up the high cost of producing a skill soft in volume rather than in high price (remember the per unit cost is very low, just the server bandwidth to deliver the software) edit, wrong, high per month. the upper class can all afford it (1/4 of income), and the most well respected of automonists (there monthly high price item), but not everybody else.
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Mon, 2014-11-10 02:52
alanwade alanwade's picture
What About Netflix In Australia
Mostly Netflix users enjoy their services in Australia by using VPN. I am also PureVPN client and enjoying each and every moment.
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Mon, 2014-11-10 13:14
ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
If the players are members of
If the players are members of Firewall, or have access to the uncensored Mesh, then I just assume they have unlimited access to anything which is data. So, sure, you could [i]pay[/i] for subscription skillsofts, or you could just download them from the system mesh, courtesy of the friendly local argonauts. You might want to be a little suspicious of said skillsofts if they're getting routed through hypercorporate transcievers, but that shouldn't be a problem. And if you're a member of the Eye? There is literally no reason that Firewall [i]wouldn't[/i] make freely-copyable data available to all Sentinels; skillsofts, eidolon digimorphs, etc.
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Mon, 2014-11-10 17:12
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
Except members of Firewall
Except members of Firewall include pro-IP types so it would take some sort of Networking test to convince The Eye that the Sentinels need it for actual Firewall Op use and not "I am going to get free skillsoft since I work for this crazy illegal conspiracy." But most the cost of Skillsoft is moderate, and Argonauts will dish that stuff out for free, but Skillware is Expensive, and I feel like this entire concept of Subscription skillsoft vs just free data misses an early chokepoint. How many Sentinels are going to seek out Skillware-installed morphs? And what happens when they get resleeved without it. You never want to DEPEND on getting a specific morph, its all about being skilled and flexible on your own.
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Mon, 2014-11-10 18:13
Bursting Eagern... Bursting Eagerness Soul's picture
My Take
I don't think that you would need to limit it much more than normal skillsofts. One way that I would do it would be to have switching Netskills as a Psychosurgery/Programming/Interfacing Task Action with a duration of one minute per 10 skill points. That makes it harder to go "Haha! I am instantly a master at [whatever relevant skill]!" while keeping them accessible. The fluff behind the delay would probably be something about needing to integrate the new skills with the Ego. Another way of handling it would be using a variation of the Alienation/Integration rules. Just to handle having what amounts to a database shoved into your head.
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Tue, 2014-11-11 18:47
ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
uwtartarus wrote:Except
uwtartarus wrote:
Except members of Firewall include pro-IP types so it would take some sort of Networking test to convince The Eye that the Sentinels need it for actual Firewall Op use and not "I am going to get free skillsoft since I work for this crazy illegal conspiracy."
It also includes radical info-anarchists who would quite cheerfully cut someone's morph's throat, atomize their stack and perpetrate backup deduplication on someone who insinuates that information should be something that anyone should have any right to control. What's your point? Free access to information is one of the perks of working for Firewall, like free access to the coffee machine is a perk at working in an office. You don't have to write out a form weighing the pros and cons of an injection of caffeine into your system. Asking for data shouldn't have the same weight, nor require the same hoops to be jumped through, that asking for, say, a large pile of guns, a group of goons who can keep their gobs shut, or a desktop CM. The pro-IP types want you to pay, but even the hardcore pro-IP types would rather let members of firewall infringe the shit out of copyright unimpeded than risk alienating those whom they stand with in the struggle to protect transhumanity from existential threats over pirated fucking skillsofts/nanofab blueprints/music/whatever.
Quote:
But most the cost of Skillsoft is moderate, and Argonauts will dish that stuff out for free, but Skillware is Expensive, and I feel like this entire concept of Subscription skillsoft vs just free data misses an early chokepoint. How many Sentinels are going to seek out Skillware-installed morphs? And what happens when they get resleeved without it. You never want to DEPEND on getting a specific morph, its all about being skilled and flexible on your own.
I will point out that informorphs and those in cyberbrains can use skillsofts freely, so it's not quite that stupid an idea. It's true that you don't want to absolutely depend on having skillsofts because you may find yourself without them, but when the ability to use them is there, you may as well take advantage of it.
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Tue, 2014-11-11 19:43
UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:I will
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
I will point out that informorphs and those in cyberbrains can use skillsofts freely, so it's not quite that stupid an idea. It's true that you don't want to absolutely depend on having skillsofts because you may find yourself without them, but when the ability to use them is there, you may as well take advantage of it.
That is incorrect. Transhuman states that Infomorphs/Cyberbrains require a virtual state of the Skillware to utilize skillsofts. Which makes perfect sense, skillsofts are a data format, the ware is required to actually run and proc the software.
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Tue, 2014-11-11 20:04
ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
UnitOmega wrote
UnitOmega wrote:
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
I will point out that informorphs and those in cyberbrains can use skillsofts freely, so it's not quite that stupid an idea. It's true that you don't want to absolutely depend on having skillsofts because you may find yourself without them, but when the ability to use them is there, you may as well take advantage of it.
That is incorrect. Transhuman states that Infomorphs/Cyberbrains require a virtual state of the Skillware to utilize skillsofts. Which makes perfect sense, skillsofts are a data format, the ware is required to actually run and proc the software.
The key-word there being [i]virtual[/i]. As in, software, non-hardware. As in "as easily copied and shared as the skillsofts themselves."
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Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name. [url=http://tinyurl.com/mfcapss]My EP Character Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/lbpsb93]Thread for my Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/obu5adp]The Five Orange Pips[/url]
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