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Refreshing Moxie

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Moracai Moracai's picture
Refreshing Moxie
Whaddya think. Would it change things much if Moxie *wouldn't* refresh every gaming session? I mean now there's a cap of 10 on Moxie. Sometimes when heavily roleplaying, we don't even make that many rolls per session! Also on that scale of 1-10. It's more like a White Wolf Willpower score, which doesn't refresh every session, than WFRP2/ Savage Worlds, Fortune Points / Bennies, which *do* refresh every session (OK WFRP2 Fortune Points refreshed every day, but it was so common houserule that they refresh every session that they imported that into Dark Heresy and presumably Rogue Trader). WFRP2 mechanic and Savage World mechanics both cap their Moxie to about 3 per session (4 if lucky), which is a heckuva lot less than 10 of EP! Besides, why give that nice option that Moxie refreshes when Motivation is played? That *is* the White Wolf mechanic.
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
Re: Refreshing Moxie
Hmm. I was under the impression that moxie only refreshed when the character "rests for a significant period." (pp. 122) Although I have no idea what 'rest' or 'significant period' means. My question is; does that mean moxie refreshes when the character gets a full serving of sleep? Or is the rest period more like the period for physical or even mental healing? Given that one of the Devs is a Shadowrun guy I've been assumeing that the rest period was quite extended. In SR the 'edge' pool only refreshes between adventures. I've never noticed any reference to moxie refreshing per gaming session(s).

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

Moracai Moracai's picture
Re: Refreshing Moxie
Page 122, under Moxie (lower left) "Every game session, your character begins with a number of Moxie points equal to their Moxie stat." The things writte under Regaining Moxie, in the upper right corner of the page are just optional rules, becuse there is the clause "At the gamemaster’s discretion".
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
Re: Refreshing Moxie
Wow I've never seen that before. Hmm, so in respect to your original question; It would change things alot and in a good way. I'm a more gritty, less cinematic, type of gamer. It makes me unhappy when you might potentially play an rpg on just your 'luck' stat. Given that PCs can't die anyhow I think moxie should be more limited. Of course it depends on how a GM paces a game through a session. In litterary terms I think moxie should only refresh after each major conflict and resolution.

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

GMJoe GMJoe's picture
Re: Refreshing Moxie
Yeah, you won't likely work through ten points of moxie in a session... but then, not many players are likely to have ten points of moxie. That'd cost 135 CP or RP - a hefty sum, given you only get 1000 for each PC (EDIT: At character creation). Most players are likely to fall into the low-to-middle range of three-to-six points, a much easier quantity to exhaust. A seond thing I'd point out is that Moxie isn't a 'Luck' stat - it's a 'doing it well' stat. The two things I see it being used for are, yes, making failures into less bad failures, but also for those situations where an 80-skill character fails a task they were really unlikely to fail. Yes, it can be a luck stat - but it can also be a 'plausibility' stat in the right circumstances. Oh, and a note on Moxie that I fear some people may miss: You can't use it to turn a sucess into a failure unless flip-flopping the numbers would work. You can flip the digits of a roll around. You can turn a sucess into a critical sucess or a critical failure into an ordinary one - but you can't make a failure a sucess unless the digit-flipping thing works. Of course, the higher your skill, the more likely it is that flip-flopping a failed roll will result in a sucess - meaning that you can't get by on luck alone. That said, I'm a more cinematic kind of GM, and if a player wants their character to be awesome within the machanics, I say let them.
Nahaj Nahaj's picture
Re: Refreshing Moxie
I've been refreshing the pools at the end of each module, which is usualy ever 2 - 4 sessions because of the raw power that moxie lends to a player, the ability to turn a disasterous rolle (91) in to an overwhelming sucess (19) is pretty extreme, not to mention the overriding of initiative. The overriding of init tends to be a big issue in Shadowrun, which is IMO the biggest reason for the long refresh time on Edge. Though Edge does refresh between missions modules for book keeping reasons go figures. So refreshing every module has been a good way for me to keep abuse down. p.s. (And to keep me from abusing bad luck, can you imagine having 10 points of fuck you every game?) :3
LordNephets LordNephets's picture
From experience, I find Moxie
From experience, I find Moxie to be quite a broken mechanic. For instance, a friend of mine in our current session is playing as a Jovian Flat, which means very little of his CP has been spent on purchases for technology. The GM allowed him to have a powerful exoskeleton/heavy armor for free, as part of the characters backstory as a military leader in the Jovian Republic. So, he maxed out his moxie and then spent the rest of his CP on combat skills. This essentially means that (in a heavily roleplayed, less combat oriented session), he can succeed or critically succeed every roll he makes, regardless of his skill, and survive intense amounts of combat, while being relatively immune to hacking. As a harcore infomorph player, I do not approve of this Flats antics.
All sciences are now under the obligation to prepare the ground for the future task of the philosopher, which is to solve the problem of value, to determine the true hierarchy of values.
prototyper prototyper's picture
If you think 10 Moxie is too high .....
Then I suggest you listen to some of the Actual Play Podcasts, Specifically the Know Evil campaign from RPPR (if you needed a reason). Those guys use Moxie like water, and not just in the tough, high pressure situations, but also the normal dangers of living in the setting. Dice are a fickle mistress, and Moxie sometimes is all that gets you by. It isn't just them, either. The other gamers in the other podcasts are big Moxie users. Boiling off 5 Moxie in a fight (not even the "Boss Fight") is not too uncommon, just due to the maladies of the dice roles. I will recommend my players buy Moxie as high as they can when they make their characters.
NewAgeOfPower NewAgeOfPower's picture
My campaign was prematurely terminated
But I can vouch that it was rare when any character ended the mission with more than one or two moxie remaining. The Max-Mox players spent their Mox (slightly) more freely while the Low Mox players rationed it. In the end, sometimes they ended up in a bad situation (usually of their own making) and needed to throw everything, scrape the bottom of the barrel, rack all their collective brains for ideals to survive- or at least complete the mission.
As mind to body, so soul to spirit. As death to the mortal man, so failure to the immortal. Such is the price of all ambition.
Patrick Northedgers Patrick Northedgers's picture
Heavy limits
Personally, I reduced refreshment of Moxie to +1 at beginning of a mission/adventure, and +1 for every motivational goal character touched (in some meaningful manner) at the end of mission. None of the characters have Moxie above 4, making it a valuable resource, usually used to avert a catastrophy. Such approach reduces risk of making Moxie a top-them-all stat, defying - in my opinion - the concept of this useful, but not crucial, attribute.
"Normal" does not exist anymore. I consider it a good symptom, though.
cglasgow cglasgow's picture
Just had my first EP play
Just had my first EP play session, and in a simple set-up session where players averaged 2 rolls each for the entire night, 3 of us needed to spend Moxie just to keep from falling off the damn hull of the ship and floating into space, and 1 of us needed to spend it to avoid crit-failing his only hacking roll of the night.
Skelshy Skelshy's picture
I've had my third session as
I've had my third session as a GM today, and Moxie was flowing very freely. In a three and a half hour game session, with five players each equipped with three Moxie, there weren't enough failed rolls to begin with to spend them all. Near the end, they had mechs with two weapons, and they kept using the less effective one, using Moxie to bypass armor instead. It gives the game play a nice feel, especially if you get into a situation you don't have skills for. On the other hand, since the points refresh at the start of a gaming session, my players are obvious more generous using them towards the end of a gaming session. I don't like that aspect of it. There should be some consideration to actually spending the points.
Lorsa Lorsa's picture
I never liked anything in any
I never liked anything in any game that has a time frame that says "game session". Game sessions can be anything from 2 hours to as long as you manage to stay awake so it seems extremely arbitrary. Also, a game session could be less than a day in the game or several years again adding to the problem. So I always try to figure out something else as timeframe whenever another game comes up with that stupid idea again. Instead, I give back full moxie between adventures or whenever I know they're heading into something really dangerous and could use it. Also, I am quite liberal with interpretation of the motivations moxie gain.
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