Pod Morphs: Not worth it?

Mon, 2012-08-06 11:58

#2

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture

I believe that pod morphs

I believe that pod morphs were developed before the ability to clone full biomorphs was available. I suspect the reason that many of them are still around is because the old technology persists. Doing a comparison, pods seem to be comparable to Exalts, but they are cheaper to produce (pleasure or worker pod - [high], Exalt - [Expensive]). Pod morphs could probably be more competitive with high end biomorphs if someone felt like putting the effort into developing them. The distaste for podmorphs or synthmorphs is merely that, social stigma. Pods and synths would make decent bodies if people weren't so racist about it. The Steel Liberators seems to be fighting for equality for those who are forced to be synthmorphs, or simply favor them. Cyberbrains can be sleeved by limited AIs. If there weren't millions of refugees wanting bodies, or still in cold storage, I imagine that most pods would probably be used by AIs.

Mon, 2012-08-06 12:19

#3

PurpleXVI

I absolutely agree, from a

I absolutely agree, from a fluff perspective there is every reason for Pod morphs to exist and be available, I've just noticed that, over the course of... five or six EP games by now(as both player and GM), no one ever picks one. Either they're biomorphs or synthmorphs(with furies and slitheroids getting an exceptional representation...), occasionally an uplift, but never a pod.

Mon, 2012-08-06 12:50

#4

Xagroth

While Pods have their place,

While Pods have their place, I doubt it is representative of player Character's priorities: essentially, ALL the basic roles have a biomorph and a synthmorph version, while Pods get the... weirdos. Skilled character, intellectual character, combat character, social character... all of them can get a working version of a synthmorph or a biomorph that can let them shine, while all Pods have the social stigma. Essentially, they are very used by NPCs and for very very specific purposes. The Whiplash, for example, is a testbed of planimal options that would take too much time and effort to study using a biomorph version (because of their nature, you can do things with a Pod that would require a from-scratch building with a biomorph), while others are just things that shouldn't be (like the owlbear and the dragon mentioned in gatecrashing) or uplifted morphs. You need to stop thinking EP gives things the way other games do. Whatever the players can access, the NPCs can too (potentially), and vice-versa. That goes for gear, skills, etc..., so there is no reason to have the stuff separated into a player character's chapter and an NPC's one.

Mon, 2012-08-06 14:16

#5

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture

It seems that there is no

It seems that there is no good reason why you would want to pick a podmorph over anything else. Most of the high end morphs are either biomorphs, or synthmorphs. Pretty much all the augmentations a podmorph can have, a biomorph can have as well. The only good reason why you would pick a podmorph is because nothing better was available. Noteable Pod morphs -Novacrabs (core rulebook, p. 142) are one of the few high end podmorphs that seem to be a good option if you want something adapted for space or underwater. -The Chickcharnie (Panopticon, p. 142) is a podmorph for avian uplifts. It has a number of changes that sacrifices flight for the conveniences of a humanoid form. -Shaper (Panopticon, p. 144) is a podmorph that has a number of features that allows it to disguise itself as someone else, or to baffle security systems that try to figure out who you are. -Digger (Gatecrashing, p. 150). On some dig sites, the EM fields produced by advanced technology and synthmorphs had damaged many alien artifacts. Many diggers found that pleasure pods were useful to get around this problem, and had the flexibility to fit into tight spaces. The digger morph is a more recently developed podmorph that is designed to do such such work better than pleasure pods. -Alien Podmorphs (Gatecrashing, p. 151). 2 examples of alien podmorphs are shown on p. 151 of Gatecrashing. Alien physiology is not yet understood well enough to produce proper alien biomorphs. However, alien podmorphs are producible now. These podmorphs get around many problems involving alien worlds including contamination of earth germs into an alien world.

Mon, 2012-08-06 14:42

#6

PurpleXVI

Sure, but you could usually

Sure, but you could usually do anything a Novacrab could do, but better with a synth. Get a plain weapon and pneumatic arms and you'll be dropping more hurting. The Shaper's alright, but as far as I recall, it doesn't really have any abilities that you couldn't fit on other morphs. Still, I'd give you that one. The Whiplash is pointless, BUT, the one that I personally find to look useful at all is the Scurrier, because of its Small Size advantage giving it an edge up in combat that few other morphs have. But, to be constructive... what I'd suggest as a fix, in order to avoid having to go over every Pod for rebalancing, would be either: #1: Biomorphs take a long time to heal, but pod morphs? Broke your arm? Just pluck it off and slot a new one in! You're half-mechanical as it is! #2: Pod morphs can use ALL upgrades, robotic, cybernetic, nanoware AND bioware. They are, at base, a tad weaker, but they can mix and match upgrades from all systems due to being part grown and part built.

Mon, 2012-08-06 14:55

#7

Gerzel

The other stated reason is

The other stated reason is that pod morphs are quicker to make. Parts can be grown faster than a whole body and sewn together.

Mon, 2012-08-06 15:00

#8

Gerzel

I would like to see what a

I would like to see what a top-of-the-line pod looks like. One that is built better than the average pod. Though, I expect that time is the real difference between pod and biomorph with cyber. A pod can be made in a matter of weeks or months from blueprints where a full grown biomorph would take years. I could see pods being used as prototypes for new biomorph designs. That would be a big reason to keep the tech around on the high end.

Mon, 2012-08-06 16:12

#9

Xagroth

Biomorphs can already mount

Biomorphs can already mount anything a Pod can, the only advantage and the reason Pods keep being in the market are, essentially, that they are the quickest and cheapest "flesh" you can get: while synthmorphs are faster to make, there is that biochauvinistic vein out there, and the only synthmorphs mass-produced where they are needed (the Planetary Consortium) are Cases, which proves the point of biomorphs being superior... And a Pod, at least, has all the familiar senses a human body has, while the synthmorph is... well, synthetic. The Takeshi Kovacs books show it quite clearly in the first novel and a little less in the third. You could summarize it with saying that a synthmorph is like wearing an armor all the time, while the flesh is, well, flesh.

Mon, 2012-08-06 19:36

#10

Chevre

I honestly don't understand

I honestly don't understand why the human pods aren't more common. Worker pods are based on Exalts (p.140) and have a cost of High, one level lower than a purely biological Exalt morph. Is it unreasonable to assume it's possible to construct a pod based on the Splicer template for a cost of Moderate? That puts them in the same price range as a Case, and at that point you're just choosing which 10-point social stigma you'd like to have. But! (and this is where it gets interesting, at least for me) seam lines on pods are deliberately applied to the design, not a consequence of the manufacturing process (Panopticon p.144, reading between the lines a bit here). Leave that off and you've functionally got a Splicer morph for 1/5 the cost in half the time. Can you really say that someone without a body wouldn't take that deal?

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Mon, 2012-08-06 19:49

#11

Seekerofshadowlight Seekerofshadowlight's picture

Pods are cheaper and faster

Pods are cheaper and faster to make. And as Chevre says the lines are applied. The only reason they are not more common would be bias in that they are cybernetic. They can be grown faster and assembled in little time and could look like anyone else with no extra work. You could make one as cheap as a case, if you wanted to and if the market were there. It simply is not, the inner system and much of the outter system do not trust them. They are worse then syths as a normal syth you can tell its not real. Pods without lines could pass as a "real" person. To the people of the solar system that is fucking scary.

Mon, 2012-08-06 20:10

#12

PurpleXVI

There's every reason for them

There's every reason for them to be very common IC among the crowds, absolutely. And there's every reason for them to be in heavy use. The issue here, for me, is mostly just that there's really nothing making them attractive to PLAYERS. Unless they've got very severe morph attrition and regularly need to sleeve in cheap morphs, or specifically need to pose as lower-class citizens. With synths and biomorphs you've got combat monsters, stealth morphs and brainy guys. But with pods you've just got an oddball collection of morphs that don't really do ANY specific thing really well, or do anything unique. I think pod morphs would be more appealing and interesting if, say, Whiplash morphs had some abilities that no other morphs had. If flying was a bit more rare so there was a reason to take a Ripwing over a Kite or a Neo-Avian. If healing was more of an issue so being able to easily "repair" a worker morph was a genuine benefit. Anything would do, really.

Mon, 2012-08-06 21:15

#13

Gerzel

I think pods are probably

I think pods are probably fairly common in the Inner and Outer system. Remember they are not common for PCs. Player Characters are a head above the rest. They are by default secret agents working for Firewall. NPCs are lucky to not have a crippling mortgage on their body let alone be picky about what they are sleeved in. Pods are likely a step up from synth. Synth requires less food and maintenance costs while pods are more luxurious. I'd remove the stigma in many Outer System areas for the same reason that the synth morph stigma is removed. In the outer system people generally care less about what you are sleeved in. In the inner system what you're sleaving is a status symbol.

Mon, 2012-08-06 21:16

#14

Chevre

Shadowseekeroflight wrote

Shadowseekeroflight wrote:
They are worse then syths as a normal syth you can tell its not real. Pods without lines could pass as a "real" person.

What exactly does "real" mean in this context? How does a lineless pod compare to Synth with a synthetic mask on the scale of real? How about to an Exalt with a cyberbrain? Are uplifts less "real" because their intelligence isn't natural? You've got a setting where there are people sleeved into robots, octopuses (don't start with me about "octopi"), meter-tall owls with cybernetic hands...where is the line?

PurpleXVI wrote:
The issue here, for me, is mostly just that there's really nothing making them attractive to PLAYERS.

From a purely mechanical standpoint I can absolutely see where you're coming from. From an RP standpoint they're fascinating. They exist halfway between biological and synthetic, not exactly one or the other. Transhumanity needs them for jobs no other morph could do, but they don't want to be seen with one. They look different a normal human, but only because normal humans decided to give them a superfluous deformity. They are the underclass, but only because people want them there. Tell me that's not solid material to build a character on.

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Mon, 2012-08-06 22:46

#15

Seekerofshadowlight Seekerofshadowlight's picture

Chevre wrote

Chevre wrote:
Shadowseekeroflight wrote:
They are worse then syths as a normal syth you can tell its not real. Pods without lines could pass as a "real" person.
What exactly does "real" mean in this context? How does a lineless pod compare to Synth with a synthetic mask on the scale of real? How about to an Exalt with a cyberbrain? Are uplifts less "real" because their intelligence isn't natural? You've got a setting where there are people sleeved into robots, octopuses (don't start with me about "octopi"), meter-tall owls with cybernetic hands...where is the line?

Real means living,a syth does not look alive, you always know what it is. Most habs in the innersystem do not allow Syth masks or you to hid that you are a machine. They do not trust machines, they find them creepy. A pod is a living being, but it is a machine. It has a cyber brain and the lines are so you always know what you are dealing with. You will also notice non-human pods, who can never pass as human do not have those lines.

Tue, 2012-08-07 06:41

#16

PurpleXVI

Chevre wrote:

Chevre wrote:
From a purely mechanical standpoint I can absolutely see where you're coming from. From an RP standpoint they're fascinating. They exist halfway between biological and synthetic, not exactly one or the other. Transhumanity needs them for jobs no other morph could do, but they don't want to be seen with one. They look different a normal human, but only because normal humans decided to give them a superfluous deformity. They are the underclass, but only because people want them there. Tell me that's not solid material to build a character on.

Yeah, but if all they exist for is as a "roleplay" thing, why not just have a "pod" morph trait that can be applied to biomorphs? It gives you the appropriate stigma, makes you slightly easier to repair, your morph cheaper to buy, and perhaps a few aptitude penalties. That wouldn't quite cover the Nova Crab and other odd pods, but they could be served by some actual boosts.

Tue, 2012-08-07 07:43

#17

Xagroth

Yeah, because I can get

Yeah, because I can get points from a flat pod and then justify my resleeving as soon as I have some money. Or get a splicer almost free... Pods have their niche, as all the other morphs. An RPG doesn't need to have everything equally attractive, since everything can be used in a way to mess intelligently the stuff. For example, a case morph can be found anywhere, so having the blueprints to sleeve yourself into one to move unnoticed could be the best course of action under certain circumstances. Also, using a pleasure pod while working undercovered can be the thing to do, and so on.

Tue, 2012-08-07 11:01

#18

Chevre

Jaberwo wrote:Real means

Seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Real means living,a syth does not look alive, you always know what it is. Most habs in the innersystem do not allow Syth masks or you to hid that you are a machine. They do not trust machines, they find them creepy. A pod is a living being, but it is a machine. It has a cyber brain and the lines are so you always know what you are dealing with.

At what point does the morph stop being "real", or "alive"? If a morph has a cyberbrain, is it still alive? If you plate the bones in metal? If you cut of the arms and replace them with prostheses? Artifical hearts, toxin filters instead of kidneys, respirocytes instead of blood, cameras for eyes...at what point is the morph no longer alive? Does the term "living" stop applying as soon as the morph reaches the level of cyberization as a pod? If the concern is that pods were originally constructed as not entirely human, that their origins are somewhat Frankensteinian, how is that different than a Bouncer or a Ghost? Human beings don't have feet for hands, Human beings can't turn invisible or climb walls like a gecko. These are features from other genetic sources, deliberately introduced to the design of the morph. A huge percentage of transhumanity is wearing bodies that were grown in tanks. They're just as engineered as Pods are. Are they less artificial because they're 100% meat?

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Tue, 2012-08-07 10:34

#19

Seekerofshadowlight Seekerofshadowlight's picture

Chevre wrote:

Chevre wrote:
At what point does the morph stop being "real", or "alive"? If a morph has a cyberbrain, is it still alive? If you plate the bones in metal?

First off, ya have the wrong quote tag. Alive is an odd term, but what I am getting at is that post fall civilization simply do not trust em. They are not organic, they are machines that look like they are organic. In the outer system no one really cares all that much if ya are a pod or a biomorph or a biomorph with a cyber brain. In the inner system however, they very much do care. If it has a cyber brain, but it is also organic, then yeah..it must not be allowed to blend in.

Tue, 2012-08-07 11:07

#20

Chevre

Seekerofshadowlight wrote

Seekerofshadowlight wrote:
First off, ya have the wrong quote tag.

Er...sorry about that. Had multiple comment windows open. Fixed.

Seekerofshadowlight wrote:
If it has a cyber brain, but it is also organic, then yeah..it must not be allowed to blend in.

So the cyberbrain is the cut-off? If the rest of the body is completely organic but the brain is cybernetic, the morph isn't alive? What if you go the other way around? If the morph so massively cyberized that it's completely indistinguishable from a synth and the brain is the only organic part left, is it "alive"?

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Tue, 2012-08-07 11:19

#21

PurpleXVI

As far as I understood it

As far as I understood it from the setting, it has less to do with "machine or alive" in some sort of moral or trust/distrust sense(except with regards to some Synth liberation activists whom some biomorphs might be a bit worried about), more to do with social class. If you've got money and connections, you can afford a proper, vat-grown biomorph that effectively looks completely human. Just like Back In The Old Days. If you're an infogee, reinstantiated or down on your luck, you'll have to settle for a stitched-together pod or synthmorph, often one produced explicitly to handle jobs too shit for biomorphs(like Q-Morphs or Nova Crabs). People aren't really AFRAID of you being NOT A REAL PERSON, they look down at you for being a [i]poor[/i] person.

Tue, 2012-08-07 12:10

#22

Seekerofshadowlight Seekerofshadowlight's picture

Chevre wrote:

Chevre wrote:
Er...sorry about that. Had multiple comment windows open. Fixed.

No issue man, I did not mean to sound so harsh. Heh some folks do not like being blamed for something they did not say :)

Chevre wrote:
So the cyberbrain is the cut-off? If the rest of the body is completely organic but the brain is cybernetic, the morph isn't alive? What if you go the other way around? If the morph so massively cyberized that it's completely indistinguishable from a synth and the brain is the only organic part left, is it "alive"?

It has much to do with fear and being of a "Lower" class, ya know poor. Pods have been around a while and they would make great replacements for many people. However, yes the brain is an issue. They simply do not want something that an AI could ride not to be spotted easily. A syth you know what it is as soon as you see it, a pod without the lines you really could not tell. And that is both spooky to them and a "lesser" stepping upon the elitist toes. In the inner system they like the classes of wealth easy to spot and color coded for convince.

Tue, 2012-08-07 14:42

#23

Xagroth

PurpleXVI wrote:

PurpleXVI wrote:
If you're an infogee, reinstantiated or down on your luck, you'll have to settle for a stitched-together pod or synthmorph, often one produced explicitly to handle jobs too shit for biomorphs(like Q-Morphs or Nova Crabs). People aren't really AFRAID of you being NOT A REAL PERSON, they look down at you for being a [i]poor[/i] person.

Precisely. Also, that helps to create a demand for a scarce product: it has been noticed more than once in the forums that Synthmorphs are being kept in line with biomorphs in terms of performance intentionally (in the setting, not by the authors of the game). So people will prefer the morphs that take 3 years to grow, and require maintenance and expensive stuff like ego bridges and healing vats. Opposed to disposable synthmorphs you can assemble with a desktop cornucopia and enough raw materials in less than a day...

Tue, 2012-08-07 14:53

#24

Gerzel

I've decided to take this

I've decided to take this thread as a challenge and make a Pod morph worthy of a PC. I've started this thread: http://eclipsephase.com/node/3398 with my design.

Wed, 2012-08-08 20:05

#25

Chevre

Xagroth wrote:

Xagroth wrote:
...it has been noticed more than once in the forums that Synthmorphs are being kept in line with biomorphs in terms of performance intentionally (in the setting, not by the authors of the game)

Is this something written into one of the sourcebooks, or is it conjecture based on source material? Either way it's interesting if it's not common knowledge in the setting; I can imagine some interesting storylines based on the fallout of that information being revealed.

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Thu, 2012-08-09 04:18

#26

Xagroth

The information is not a

The information is not a secret: it has been "deduced" (in setting) by all the memetic campaigns, and as the synthmorph rights movements (interests: -biochauvinism) mentioned in Sunward. The authors never said anything that I know about this, however, and it has been a community deduction based onto the fact that synthmorphs are cheaper and faster to made, and are better options for combat than their equivalent-prized biomorphs (not to mention, you don't need to breathe, eat, etc...).

Thu, 2012-08-09 12:21

#27

Gerzel

Synthmorphs might not be as

Synthmorphs might not be as ideal an option for long term as one would think at first. For one thing they don't self-repair at all. Yes there are some nanites but it isn't nearly the level that a biomorph can do. Secondly there is little known about the upkeep costs. Synthmorphs still require energy or fuel, even a synthetic brain isn't a low-power device. In fact the biological brain's energy efficiency might be the biomorph's saving grace. Third is double edged. Synthmorphs generally have better control over their brain/egos than bio. I'm guessing that means they can probably go into a low-energy mode. On the other hand they probably don't have nearly as good tactile and sensory apparatus. This latter reason is probably the largest root as to why synths are shunned; they just don't feel as good.

Thu, 2012-08-09 12:51

#28

PurpleXVI

Well, firstly, with

Well, firstly, with medichines, your synthmorph engages in a decent level of self-repair. Secondly, sure, maybe some parts will break down, but again: It's a PART, you can just slot in a replacement. And fuel? Biomorphs require fuel, too. It's called food and water. A synthmorph, on the other hand, can run off a good nuclear battery for a year or something.

Thu, 2012-08-09 15:18

#29

Gerzel

Yes but it is the level and

Yes but it is the level and efficentcy of repair. Yes if you have the parts synths are easier to repair in theory. But what is the cost of making those parts? Most parts are not simple or easy to make. Nanoforging doesn't strike me as energy efficient. It might be that there is no great conspiracy. THat when the costs of production and maintenance for high-end synths are taken into account they are more expensive than a comparable biomorph design.

Thu, 2012-08-09 15:47

#30

Xagroth

The energy reactor for 1 year

The energy reactor for 1 year works for biomorphs too :p Sadly, a biomorph can't live of solar energy. Nanoforging is ridiculously cheap at certain levels. And yeah, it might be expensive. But you can create a new synthmorph in less than a week (and I'm imagining that long might be for the Fenrir...), while any biomoprh takes 3 years. Minimun. Synthmorphs have cybrebrains, and are more vulnerable to hacking. You can leave one in a very quick time, though, while Biomorphs won't give you the option.

Thu, 2012-08-09 17:06

#31

PurpleXVI

Synthmorphs are only

Synthmorphs are only vulnerable to hacking if they have open external connections, though. They can just shut down their personal wi-fi or only accept connections from a very limited number of trusted sources, it's not like hackers can walk by and mind-control them.

Fri, 2012-08-10 04:39

#32

Patrick Northedgers Patrick Northedgers's picture

PurpleXVI wrote:Synthmorphs

PurpleXVI wrote:
Synthmorphs are only vulnerable to hacking if they have open external connections, though. They can just shut down their personal wi-fi or only accept connections from a very limited number of trusted sources, it's not like hackers can walk by and mind-control them.

In my opinion, yes and no. The point of 'hacking cyberbrain' (in-game use of the term, let's skip "hacking vs. cracking" issue here) is to break thorough the barriers and force the cyberbrain to accept commands that resident ego refuses to accept. Of course, resident ego could cut off all communication (ie. shut down the wi-fi, as you called it), but this is effectively deactivating one of their senses. Accepting limited connections (trusted only, for example) leaves them open for a few attack options, like spoofing or firewall exploits. If there's active hardware, there's a way.

—

"Normal" does not exist anymore. I consider it a good symptom, though.

Fri, 2012-08-10 05:18

#33

Chevre

Patrick Northedgers wrote:If

Patrick Northedgers wrote:
If there's active hardware, there's a way.

I'd like to submit "surprise, (mesh-enabled) dart in your neck" as a legitimate way to gain access to the hardware.

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Fri, 2012-08-10 05:46

#34

Patrick Northedgers Patrick Northedgers's picture

Pods are indeed of little use

Pods are indeed of little use for characters at the first glance, I suppose mainly due to having disadvantages of both biomorphs (need to eat, drink, all those nasty things you don't mention at lunch, etc.) and synthmorphs (hacking vulnerability, social stigma) without most advantages of synthmorphs. There is barely any advantage of a pod for being a pod: biomorphs have a "good feeling" and higher social standing, synthmorphs have to bother with less (no biological trouble, pain filter...), what do pods have except "middle" social standing (that does not get any reflection in game mechanics, anyway) and low price?

Chevre wrote:
Patrick Northedgers wrote:
If there's active hardware, there's a way.
I'd like to submit "surprise, (mesh-enabled) dart in your neck" as a legitimate way to gain access to the hardware.

Nice option. Thank you, I'd use that. After some fleshing out, of course :]

—

"Normal" does not exist anymore. I consider it a good symptom, though.

Fri, 2012-08-10 07:02

#35

Decivre

Patrick Northedgers wrote

Patrick Northedgers wrote:
Pods are indeed of little use for characters at the first glance, I suppose mainly due to having disadvantages of both biomorphs (need to eat, drink, all those nasty things you don't mention at lunch, etc.) and synthmorphs (hacking vulnerability, social stigma) without most advantages of synthmorphs. There is barely any advantage of a pod for being a pod: biomorphs have a "good feeling" and higher social standing, synthmorphs have to bother with less (no biological trouble, pain filter...), what do pods have except "middle" social standing (that does not get any reflection in game mechanics, anyway) and low price?

One of the conceits of the setting seems to be that not everything is necessarily made for use by player characters. In fact, many things in the books don't lend themselves well to use in a traditional play style… the most obvious ones being Suryas (along with most cetacean morphs) and the info regarding habitat sleeving. A lot of it is just about populating and making the game universe vibrant and interesting. Such is the case with pods, which fall into one of two niches; either they act as exotic biomorphs (such as the alien pods or unusual animal pods), or as low-cost humanoid morphs. They fill out a specific role within the history of the setting (a cheap and rapidly-deployed semi-biological alternative to the slow-to-produce, expensive biomorph). So yeah, it'll be the case that it won't be most player's cup of tea. Unless you're roleplaying a nympho that wants a body tailored to their tastes, or a Venusian dockworker, or someone that likes a freaky sleeve… or any number of other scenarios where a pod might make sense in context. Otherwise, you'll probably pass on it.

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Fri, 2012-08-10 08:18

#36

Patrick Northedgers Patrick Northedgers's picture

A tool, more than a permanent body

Decivre wrote:
So yeah, it'll be the case that it won't be most player's cup of tea. Unless you're roleplaying a nympho that wants a body tailored to their tastes, or a Venusian dockworker, or someone that likes a freaky sleeve… or any number of other scenarios where a pod might make sense in context. Otherwise, you'll probably pass on it.

I quite agree. A single case when my players considered using a pod (a pleasure pod) was to infiltrate an entertainment lounge in a mining town. I suppose the question posed in the thread was "What of use would be a pod as main body?"; from my point of view, for most PCs a pod is nothing more than a tool, not a body to stay in. Unless, as you said, they have an unusual character concept.

—

"Normal" does not exist anymore. I consider it a good symptom, though.

Fri, 2012-08-10 09:16

#37

PurpleXVI

Ripwings, Nova Crabs,

Ripwings, Nova Crabs, Scurriers and Whiplashes seem rather like they were intended to have a purpose, though. An organic version of the Kite, an organic version of the Reaper, a small-and-stealthy climber and a monstrous planty morph. The Ripwing could be boosted to be equal with the Kite, the Nova Crab and Whiplash could have boosted armor and natural attacks, and they'd be relatively worthwhile to pick up. Hell, maybe make the Whiplash generally capable of assuming the appearances and general shape of nearby plantlife and it could be an excellent infiltration morph for exoplanet missions. And the Scurrier is just plain a pretty decent morph. What really keeps back a lot of pod morphs is that melee combat is so useless 90% of the time, and their special thing is often having built-in melee attacks and little else. I'd agree with the human pods, though, they're generally just there for fluff purposes. Though it just seems strange that some of these "fluff purpose" pods get statted out at all. Suryas, for instance. Like... sure, say they're there, draw 'em, talk about 'em, but how often would they need stats? What are the odds that the PC's are going to end up in a slapfight with a solar space-whale? A gunfight with some worker pods or a needing to use their Kinesics to read a Pleasure Pod as they push it to give them information about a client, I can see that. But some of the decisions for statting up just seem strange, especially if said pods were never intended for PC's either. I still think it'd be possible, and reasonable, to balance pods out as PC choices without sabotaging the setting entirely. Synthmorphs are already roughly equal to biomorphs and it's still canon that biomorphs are preferred on account of status stuff. Plus, what if Bob's character concept IS that he's, say, an indenture who's stuck piloting a pod(either for testing or work), shouldn't that be viable to play?

Fri, 2012-08-10 13:28

#38

nerdnumber1 nerdnumber1's picture

Humanoid Pods give good value

Humanoid Pods give good value for their cost of high as flesh goes, they work well for undercover work, and are easily available. Not every backwater hab will have a sylph on short notice, so a social PC might need to make do with a pleasure pod. Sometimes, Olympians, furies, and even exalts are too obvious for a mission and plenty of has restrict weapons, making a worker pod viable. I'm not saying that pods are ideal, but they fit a role in the fluff and there is no reason that they need to be competitive with top of the line biomorphs and synthmorphs. They are tye awkward middle child between the two and work fine. Actually, I would think exalt or high level morphs would attract significant attention in poorer habs. Think of rolling through a slum in sports cars; someone is going to notice you.

Fri, 2012-08-10 13:40

#39

PurpleXVI

Here's the thing, though,

Here's the thing, though, barring Remade, Neotenics and a few other very blatantly modified biomorphs(usually the ones with wings), most biomorphs basically look human. Sure, Furies are muscular, but they're not as big as the Hulk, could just be a Splicer who's worked out a lot. Exalts, Olympians, Mentons... the same, they're still within human limits. They don't stand out that much except for obviously being biomorphs. The hab would really have to be poor enough for a biomorph itself to be a sign of opulence. Also I'm not really sure how many GM's aggressively enforce egocasting over physical travel. In-fluff it seems a lot more common, but for Gatecrashing campaigns, for instance, the PC's can usually keep their usual bodies, and if they constantly have to dump their previous morphs to egocast places, then it basically throws out the entire "modifying your morph"-aspect of the game, due to always forcing them to stick with hand-me-downs or generics off the assembly line. While I could see it as an interesting way to get PC's to try new things, it's also basically forcing them to constantly "roll to see if you get trauma from a bad resleeving." It's a very GM-specific or campaign-specific thing, whether they can bring their usual morphs everywhere or have to constantly "make do."

Fri, 2012-08-10 14:21

#40

nerdnumber1 nerdnumber1's picture

PurpleXVI wrote:Here's the

PurpleXVI wrote:
Here's the thing, though, barring Remade, Neotenics and a few other very blatantly modified biomorphs(usually the ones with wings), most biomorphs basically look human. Sure, Furies are muscular, but they're not as big as the Hulk, could just be a Splicer who's worked out a lot. Exalts, Olympians, Mentons... the same, they're still within human limits. They don't stand out that much except for obviously being biomorphs. The hab would really have to be poor enough for a biomorph itself to be a sign of opulence. Also I'm not really sure how many GM's aggressively enforce egocasting over physical travel. In-fluff it seems a lot more common, but for Gatecrashing campaigns, for instance, the PC's can usually keep their usual bodies, and if they constantly have to dump their previous morphs to egocast places, then it basically throws out the entire "modifying your morph"-aspect of the game, due to always forcing them to stick with hand-me-downs or generics off the assembly line. While I could see it as an interesting way to get PC's to try new things, it's also basically forcing them to constantly "roll to see if you get trauma from a bad resleeving." It's a very GM-specific or campaign-specific thing, whether they can bring their usual morphs everywhere or have to constantly "make do."

I think between AR and visual inspection, most morphs are immediately distinguishable to those paying attention (much like how many sports cars are similar in appearance to normal sedans, yet still recognisable), unless special care is taken to hide the morph type. I normally tell players the morph type of npcs (though not all the augmentations). As for morph customization vs resleaving and ego-casting, I think both are equally valid methods of play. A happy balance may work best, with egocast trips being occasional changes of pace in an otherwise local game. Players shouldn't have to "make do" in every adventure, but roughing it without a fury or futura or remade occasionally might make for a more interesting game.

Fri, 2012-08-10 14:22

#41

nerdnumber1 nerdnumber1's picture

PurpleXVI wrote:Here's the

PurpleXVI wrote:
Here's the thing, though, barring Remade, Neotenics and a few other very blatantly modified biomorphs(usually the ones with wings), most biomorphs basically look human. Sure, Furies are muscular, but they're not as big as the Hulk, could just be a Splicer who's worked out a lot. Exalts, Olympians, Mentons... the same, they're still within human limits. They don't stand out that much except for obviously being biomorphs. The hab would really have to be poor enough for a biomorph itself to be a sign of opulence. Also I'm not really sure how many GM's aggressively enforce egocasting over physical travel. In-fluff it seems a lot more common, but for Gatecrashing campaigns, for instance, the PC's can usually keep their usual bodies, and if they constantly have to dump their previous morphs to egocast places, then it basically throws out the entire "modifying your morph"-aspect of the game, due to always forcing them to stick with hand-me-downs or generics off the assembly line. While I could see it as an interesting way to get PC's to try new things, it's also basically forcing them to constantly "roll to see if you get trauma from a bad resleeving." It's a very GM-specific or campaign-specific thing, whether they can bring their usual morphs everywhere or have to constantly "make do."

I think between AR and visual inspection, most morphs are immediately distinguishable to those paying attention (much like how many sports cars are similar in appearance to normal sedans, yet still recognisable), unless special care is taken to hide the morph type. I normally tell players the morph type of npcs (though not all the augmentations). As for morph customization vs resleaving and ego-casting, I think both are equally valid methods of play. A happy balance may work best, with egocast trips being occasional changes of pace in an otherwise local game. Players shouldn't have to "make do" in every adventure, but roughing it without a fury or futura or remade occasionally might make for a more interesting game.

Fri, 2012-08-10 14:30

#42

Decivre

PurpleXVI wrote:Ripwings,

PurpleXVI wrote:
Ripwings, Nova Crabs, Scurriers and Whiplashes seem rather like they were intended to have a purpose, though. An organic version of the Kite, an organic version of the Reaper, a small-and-stealthy climber and a monstrous planty morph. The Ripwing could be boosted to be equal with the Kite, the Nova Crab and Whiplash could have boosted armor and natural attacks, and they'd be relatively worthwhile to pick up. Hell, maybe make the Whiplash generally capable of assuming the appearances and general shape of nearby plantlife and it could be an excellent infiltration morph for exoplanet missions. And the Scurrier is just plain a pretty decent morph.

But what primarily makes them fun is how unique they are. It isn't often you get the chance to play a mole or sentient plant.

PurpleXVI wrote:
What really keeps back a lot of pod morphs is that melee combat is so useless 90% of the time, and their special thing is often having built-in melee attacks and little else. I'd agree with the human pods, though, they're generally just there for fluff purposes. Though it just seems strange that some of these "fluff purpose" pods get statted out at all. Suryas, for instance. Like... sure, say they're there, draw 'em, talk about 'em, but how often would they need stats? What are the odds that the PC's are going to end up in a slapfight with a solar space-whale?

But why not have the stats there if someone out there might use it? I've used Suryas in the game, along with traditional cetacean morphs. It's fun to figure out scenarios where that would be a choice morph.

PurpleXVI wrote:
A gunfight with some worker pods or a needing to use their Kinesics to read a Pleasure Pod as they push it to give them information about a client, I can see that. But some of the decisions for statting up just seem strange, especially if said pods were never intended for PC's either. I still think it'd be possible, and reasonable, to balance pods out as PC choices without sabotaging the setting entirely. Synthmorphs are already roughly equal to biomorphs and it's still canon that biomorphs are preferred on account of status stuff. Plus, what if Bob's character concept IS that he's, say, an indenture who's stuck piloting a pod(either for testing or work), shouldn't that be viable to play?

Except pods aren't particularly bad. Humanoid pods combine a low purchase cost with a relatively simple implant selection. In the core book, the only morphs cheaper than the humanoid pods are flats and splicers. They give you a modest selection of implants and stat bonuses as well. They aren't bad for 20 points. They just sit in a weird middle ground where players aren't fond of them. You see this sort of things in many games, not just RPGs. One of my favorite games, F-Zero GX, has this nasty problem of players picking either vehicles with max acceleration or max top speed. No one in high-level play gives a damn about vehicles with a mix of each. Then you've got fighting games, where the most popular characters tend to be the fastest characters or the ones that hit the hardest. Oftentimes when people think about the competition ramifications, selection will take on the form of an inverted bell curve. It's true all over the place.

—

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Fri, 2012-08-10 18:59

#43

Chevre

Decivre wrote:

Decivre wrote:
Except pods aren't particularly bad. Humanoid pods combine a low purchase cost with a relatively simple implant selection. In the core book, the only morphs cheaper than the humanoid pods are flats and splicers. They give you a modest selection of implants and stat bonuses as well. They aren't bad for 20 points. They just sit in a weird middle ground where players aren't fond of them.

The game I'm currently involved in has an ego hunter who uses worker pods almost exclusively. Cheap, ubiquitous, sturdy, and easy to get spare parts for. If the arm gets blown off, he can just go to the morph equivalent of Home Depot and get a spare arm from one of the biotanks. A few hours later, it's back on and he's back to work.

—

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Fri, 2012-08-10 20:54

#44

Chevre

Patrick Northedgers wrote

Patrick Northedgers wrote:

Chevre wrote:
Patrick Northedgers wrote:
If there's active hardware, there's a way.
I'd like to submit "surprise, (mesh-enabled) dart in your neck" as a legitimate way to gain access to the hardware.
Nice option. Thank you, I'd use that. After some fleshing out, of course :]

A seeker micromissile should be large enough to contain the electronics. For best results you'd probably want to connect directly to the access jacks, which means either being a hell of a shot, using homing missiles, or using the laser-guided option with one person (or even a remote drone) acting as spotter and red-dotting (or ultraviolet dotting, or whatever) the jack while a second person fires the dart from a safe safe distance. Once the connection is established, you can hack them as though you were directly connected. And, with the ranges on both seeker weapons and mesh connections, a target could theoretically be hacked from several kilometers away. It's essentially a rocket-propelled and weaponized USB wireless dongle. Possible modifications: -Have the dart deploy a powerful adhesive on impact to prevent the target (or their allies) from removing it before it's had a chance to do its job -Instead of using a hard connection (i.e. slotting directly into the jack), make the tip of soft electronics that splatter on impact and use a variation of the skinlink implant. Less accuracy required. -Modify the dart to directly inject narcalgorithms into an unwilling target's cyberbrain -Miniaturize the circuitry from a Disabler and one-shot any synthetic target with exposed access jacks

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Fri, 2012-08-10 21:20

#45

PurpleXVI

Hack darts might almost be

Hack darts might almost be too easy, though. But keep in mind, the victim doesn't really need to REMOVE it to disable it, just whacking it and crushing it flat, or gripping it and snipping off most of it, would probably ruin its ability to transmit back to its "owner." So it'd have to be a stealth weapon. Plus for anyone with some decent sensor gear, your position would probably be a huge, screaming red dot on their radar(considering the constant connection), so expect the victim's entire posse to come down on you.

Fri, 2012-08-10 22:35

#46

Decivre

PurpleXVI wrote:Hack darts

PurpleXVI wrote:
Hack darts might almost be too easy, though. But keep in mind, the victim doesn't really need to REMOVE it to disable it, just whacking it and crushing it flat, or gripping it and snipping off most of it, would probably ruin its ability to transmit back to its "owner." So it'd have to be a stealth weapon. Plus for anyone with some decent sensor gear, your position would probably be a huge, screaming red dot on their radar(considering the constant connection), so expect the victim's entire posse to come down on you.

You wouldn't even want it to be a dart, really. The best hack dart would be something that is sticky and hits with minimal impact, to reduce the chance that it is noticed. I imagine it having a flat head with gecko grips on the tip, that way it can stick to most surfaces (including human skin) and tag it with minimal weight and force.

—

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Fri, 2012-08-10 23:34

#47

CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture

So like a reverse Jammer

So like a reverse Jammer round? I like it! (As does my combat hacker).

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Fri, 2012-08-10 23:53

#48

OpsCon

These are not things my

These are not things my hacker needs. Thankfully, he doesn't use Kinetic Weapons. Yet.

—

KT Alex 'Iceshade' Andrade [img]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m65pmc5Pvh1r0iehwo6_r1_400.jpg[/img] [img]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m65pmc5Pvh1r0iehwo1_400.jpg[/img] [img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m65pmc5Pvh1r0iehwo2_400.jpg[/img]

Sat, 2012-08-11 00:21

#49

Hoarseman

Pods are a bit more anoymous

Several of my players ending up casting into a hypercorp station into custom pods that they convinced a local corp to assemble. The heavy bioweave armor was for "abrasion resistance", the hardened skeleton was an "insurance requirement", and the eelware was to "power proprietary devices". Basically they used the prejudices against pods to slip in several combat upgraded morphs that would have probably been caught if you tried it with Olympians, Ultimates, or Furies.

Sat, 2012-08-11 04:09

#50

Decivre

CodeBreaker wrote:So like a

CodeBreaker wrote:
So like a reverse Jammer round? I like it! (As does my combat hacker).

When you think about it, there probably isn't much of a difference between the two. They are both radio transmitters, except one acts as a router rather than simply sending out noise on various frequencies. The other possibility is that the bullet is just a nanoswarm container, and that nanoswarm infiltrates the body, makes its way to your mesh inserts or access jacks and forces open an active wireless connection. In which case, it would be a new variation on the saboteur nanoswarms designed to control rather than damage electronic systems. Now that I think about it, this might be the better option of the two.

—

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Sat, 2012-08-11 05:32

#51

Chevre

Purple XVI wrote:Plus for

Purple XVI wrote:
Plus for anyone with some decent sensor gear, your position would probably be a huge, screaming red dot on their radar(considering the constant connection), so expect the victim's entire posse to come down on you.

Which is why the fact that you can be a kilometer or more away when you fire it is important. Hack quickly.

Decivre wrote:
The best hack dart would be something that is sticky and hits with minimal impact, to reduce the chance that it is noticed.

That's sort of what I was going for with the soft electronics option. Most of the impact energy would disperse as it splatters, and it would stick like the dickens.

Decivre wrote:
The other possibility is that the bullet is just a nanoswarm container, and that nanoswarm infiltrates the body, makes its way to your mesh inserts or access jacks and forces open an active wireless connection. In which case, it would be a new variation on the saboteur nanoswarms designed to control rather than damage electronic systems. Now that I think about it, this might be the better option of the two.

I like it, although the target's muse would probably be screaming bloody murder about their body being invaded, so less stealthy. If you're going that route, why not use the saboteur swarms and just take them apart from the inside? It would bypass any guardian nanoswarms they had, as those are on the outside, especially if it doesn't deploy the payload until it's inside the center of mass. I'm starting to feel slightly guilty about introducing this concept.

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Eclipse Phase

Pod Morphs: Not worth it?

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