Managed to skim through it, pretty nice book all around! I can already see the potential plot hooks of the Minervan Fleet. A particularly good hook if you want to play on the idea of Firewall working together with the Jovian Republic to reign in a potential risk that neither side wants to see loose.

Also loving the more detailed and updated treatment of exsurgent infection rules. It clarifies a lot of stuff I'd been fuzzy on, and that had previously been scattered in various chapters and even supplements. All around smashing, I think — and it gives great assistance to those of us who are whipping up custom strains and threats for our campaigns, but want to make sure we don't skew things toooooo hard.

I had some time to read and digest some of the book. *burp* Literally. Infomorph style. The section on wormholes didn't really offer much that I haven't thought a lot about already. I have played with the idea of a hypercorp developing a primitive gate system. Maybe I'll talk about it more late. I found the part on Exhumans to be interesting. I like philosophy in general, even if I should find the stuff morally repulsive. I liked how the guy took how most humans were willing to look the other way when the human rights of exhumans were being violated and applauded that instead of being outraged. That transhumanity was willing to look the other way when dealing with a threat, and stressed that survival is the one thing that is important. He complemented it like it was a step in the right direction, their direction, but baby steps much too small. The section however seems to skip over the possibility that not all exhumans are hostile to transhumanity. However, I suppose that a more fair stance on them should not be expected of a book called X-threats. I skimmed over other parts in the book. I like some of the threats like the dreadnought, shifter, and many other mecha. Speaking of shifters, can flexbots form weapons like shifters can? I'm under the impression that they can't. Also, the titan nanoswarms have move speeds. Its the first time I've seen official speeds for nanoswarms. Are those movement speeds the same for other nanoswarms such as the transhuman variety?

DivineWrath wrote:

Speaking of shifters, can flexbots form weapons like shifters can? I'm under the impression that they can't. Also, the titan nanoswarms have move speeds. Its the first time I've seen official speeds for nanoswarms. Are those movement speeds the same for other nanoswarms such as the transhuman variety?

Flexbots can't form guns. They can probably make clubs and such, but the rules don't say so. Seems reasonable none the less. From the section on Transhuman nanoswarms (page 169) talking about how they can't hop or fly in vacuum I assume they can move, but are probably somewhat slower than TITAN swarms.

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Yeah, but that'd require a pretty significant shift in the perspective of the books. For better or worse, the EP source material is written from the perspective of Firewall and/or Firewall-connected operatives. As such, most of the flavor text and IC background reflect what Firewall knows and understands, and their take on things. Taking it as Gospel assumes that you're in a Firewall campaign, IMO.

In many ways that irritates me most. We have lots of examples of firewall doing horrific things on the judgment of one or two people. The ending of Termites in the Framework is a good example of that, no? Which is what would happen a lot in a decentralized organization like firewall. Lots of people working at cross purposes, because they individually believe that each one is the right way to go. Great! Makes a good horror game. But it's never, ever extended to the anarchists or autonomists themselves. All the cults spring up from the Jovian Republic, because obviously a group with a strong social, political and religious organization would be shedding cults like crazy. It's not like history shows it's the isolated groups who form weird beliefs! And of everybody in the damn setting, Firewall should be aware of this. Firewall is the last group who should be wearing rose coloured glasses. In which group is the knowledge on how to make WMD's common? Anarchists. Where are there people crazy enough to build them? Anarchists. Where is a cult of personality likely to form around a person crazy enough to [i]use[/i] them? Anarchists! So what does the book list as our minor threats? The Church of Luminous Saints - Jovian origin. Bonus points for the line '"radicalizing influence,” for those not familiar with the cant of Jovian officialdom, is about the most severe accusation of thought crime that can be leveled against a group.' Green Death - Not specified. Haunted Stars - Martian. Minervan Fleet - Jovian. Red Five - Martian. Sybils - Unspecified. Ultimates - Ultimates, obviously. Aliens - Also aliens. No groups at all noted to be from anarchist or autonomist circles. It's like the old truisim about the bechdel test. The problem isn't that a particular movie doesn't have strong female characterization, it's that when you look across all the movies made almost none of them have strong female characterization. In our case, we've got no strong characterization of the Jovians, and in some ways even less for the anarchists in any of the sections of any of the books. And believe me eaton, in my games the Anarchists are a disorganized mess, and entire habs disappearing is pretty common. It's not necessarily a bad way to live, but it's certainly a dangerous one.

Trappedinwikipedia wrote:

Flexbots can't form guns. They can probably make clubs and such, but the rules don't say so. Seems reasonable none the less.

Fair enough. I'll put this under the form extra limbs ability. Both clubs and knives are [Trivial] priced and deal 1d10+2 damage. Coincidentally, unarmed attacks deal 1d10, +2 if synthmorph, so the only advantage is your choice of weapon skill. Unless you allow flexbots to form better weapons...

Trappedinwikipedia wrote:

From the section on Transhuman nanoswarms (page 169) talking about how they can't hop or fly in vacuum I assume they can move, but are probably somewhat slower than TITAN swarms.

The movement speeds for this game don't divide well. The only thing slower than 4/16 that seems appropiate is 2/8 (swarmanoid walker speed). I guess for now I'll allow nanoswarms to have 2/8 for both walker and microlight. ---- Anyways. It seems that protecting yourself with multiple guardian swarms at one time is canon. Also, if Shifters can be spotted with T-rays, does this mean any bot with synthetic skin can also be spotted with T-rays?

A few quick replies:

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No groups at all noted to be from anarchist or autonomist circles.

The Green Death threat is anarchistic -- Twilight of the Machines is named after a real book and they are based on current anarcho-primitivist ideology.

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Flexbots can't form guns. They can probably make clubs and such, but the rules don't say so.

They can make clubs and knives and other simple-shape weapons, yes.

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Are those movement speeds the same for other nanoswarms such as the transhuman variety?

No, transhuman nanoswarms move quite slowly -- slow enough that it's more in the realm of plot device than movement rate. If you need a figure, I'd say go with something in the range of 3-5 meters per minute.

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I don't think a synthetic mask can be beaten with T-rays, it's made of real flesh, and T-rays find skin/water opaque.

We say in the description of synthetic mask that it can be spotted with t-rays.

RobBoyle wrote:

No, transhuman nanoswarms move quite slowly -- slow enough that it's more in the realm of plot device than movement rate. If you need a figure, I'd say go with something in the range of 3-5 meters per minute.

Ok. Thanks. I guess that means that you either carry your nanoswarms with you, wear them, or you drop them. So does this means its possible to wear 5 guardian swarms on you and be well protected?

RobBoyle wrote:

We say in the description of synthetic mask that it can be spotted with t-rays.

Now I feel silly. I could have solved this myself. I must have watched too many Terminator movies. A -30 to spot is useful though.

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The Green Death threat is anarchistic -- Twilight of the Machines is named after a real book and they are based on current anarcho-primitivist ideology.

It would be great if it actually said that somewhere in the book then. The only thing it says about their location or source is 'a dozen churches scattered through the inner system, mostly on Mars.' That does not exactly scream anarchist to me. All my other points remain, not least of which is Firewall calling everybody a possible threat except for the polity most able and likely to produce and use WMDs.

Ryse1095 wrote:

How much information on Titan war machines and exsurgents is in here?

The book is nearly 200 pages big, with about 60 pages on different kinds of monsters. There is also 10 pages talking about exsurgents in general and 10 pages talking about TITANs in general. History, what is known, etc. The threat section has 1 page per monster (or more). Some are TITAN, some are not. Each creature has notes of what it is and where you should expect to find it, a picture, a few paragraphs talking about it, a stat write up, augments it has, special notes where exceptions to rules are, and maybe some comments by Firewall agents, etc. I find it more far more detailed than many other creature stat write ups. I haven't got to the threat section yet, so I've only did some skimming over it. Someone else might be able to give better specifics beyond page count and a quick skim.

I poked around in the book and read some of the critters. Well, even if you see some creatures that are not TITAN in origin, whose to say that they can't be used as TITAN monsters. Its not like Firewall knows every monster that the TITANs have made. The sentinals would probably know less. They've been told in other books that they should expect to be the first ones to see a new kind of exsurgent threat. Whose to say that a Hallow isn't really a new kind of TITAN weapon (think an ooze that can disolve victims and take their forms), or that a Gut Eater isn't some kind of new exsurgent threat. TITAN weapons are really high tech, while exsurgents can be really freaky and alien. The book does contain many monster already mention in the GM section of the core rulebook, such as the Shifter and Self-Replicating Nanoswarm but they have been more fleshed out. It contains newer ones like the Fetch, which is a TITAN delta fork trimmed down to the point where it could use morphs. The think tank is both a tank and a front line commander, and is equiped with a special deflector unit that can deflect kinetic weapons (I don't recall seeing it before).

I'm loving this book, and there are so many great ideas to ratchet up the threat level on my campaign :) I am surprised at the lack of detail and connectivity between the Bracewell Probe, described in the Core book, and the TITANs. Even the analysis of the Fall and TITAN Hard Takeoff doesn't reference this. Wondering if it's a matter of narrative PoV, retcon, or something else. The closest X-Risk reference I could find was the "Luca Report" on pg. 91. Wondering if anyone else had thoughts on this, or if I missed something while jumping around the book.

The Bracewell Probe and ETI are things no transhuman in the setting knows and it would be nearly impossible for them to ever learn. Even if some sentinels discovered it during a mission, there would probably be no way to prove it - "yeah, this TITAN data cache revealed the whole thing to us - are you saying the TITAN would LIE to us?"

I suppose it depends on how you process continuity between books. In my mind since in the core book the eti and bracewell plot twist is optional, all further expansions and implications of this in products further down the lineage are still optional

You know what. I think I have a new idea of how Firewall can be an X-Risk. With so many books talking about how the world will end from the Firewall perspective, it seems more and more likely that transhumanity will end in some horrible manner. Someone might get the bright idea of choosing how the world will end if they're convinced the end can't be stopped. We're going to need a different kind of book or something if we are going to have any hope for the future.

I had an interesting thought about the Jesuit priests going to try and convert Factors. What if the banishment was part of what they wanted rather than a sacrifice? Being religious doesn't mean you necessarily agree with everything the Junta is doing, especially on the totalitarian side. This could serve as a perhaps intended release valve for Jovian society - allowing intellectuals dissatisfied with the regime to leave without any loss of face rather than be a focal point for opposition. They'd be able to spin it to their friends and family as a noble act but end up leaving the Junta and going whereever they wanted - probably a less oppressive bioconservative hab.

The entry on Dreadnoughts compares them to the Fenrir morph, which allows multiple egos to sleeve it and operate all weapon systems independently. It's unclear whether the Rortian gestalt is intended to operate the same way. Given the comparison to the Fenrir (and the suggestion that it may have a tactical advantage over one), the ultraviolet threat rating and the number of armaments it seems reasonable that they would. Unlike a fenrir morph, where each subsystem is typically run by a separate ego coordinating with others through a hard-linked tacnet, dreadnoughts are run by a single mass mind. Each mental unit is composed of up to a dozen egos — usually exhumans, but sometimes forcibly incorporated captured egos.

The description mentions that it's unclear whether the experimental cyberbrain provides any advantage. I'd like to think that it does, and that part of this is to enable each subsystem to benefit from the increased Speed. Fenrirs don't have special cyberbrains, just several of them. I imagine that part of the Rortian cyberbrain's advantage is to enable the gestalt's specialized subagents to manifest and control different subsystems while still feeling like a unified single mind, with all the high-bandwidth communication that entails. It just doesn't seem right that an exhuman clade mass-producing specialized minds would willfully leave their tank-morphs "under-crewed" relative to the measly transhuman ones. Otherwise why bother with this new tech? Why not just do what the fenfir does and use forks?

Admittedly the fact that all of the TITAN warmachines listed use one mind regardless of the number of weapons suggests strongly that this is what they intended as well. Which kind of sucks, because it makes absolutely no sense. Minds are cheap when you have no compunction against alpha forking.

The transhumans were created by man. They rebelled. They evolved. They look and feel human. Some are programmed to think they are human. There are many copies. And they have a plan.

i would assume a non full excsurgent is one that is infected by not showing symptoms or in their eclipse phase if you will. I assume they are specifically restricting it from player use without it being powerful enough to warrant an epsilon designation