I wish This game was more down to earth, especially in the Mesh section. I'll give it credit, it's forcing me to learn about cyber security and how the internet actually works. But it gets anoying when your a GM going through college to do even more studying. So I came here.
At first I just assumed Mesh IDs were like E-mail addresses that you can just log out of and switch, but my players said it was more like an IP address or MAC address. I pointed out that an IP address only applies to the device and not the person, that a Mesh ID would theoretically change when you resleeve. Then they explained that it would probably have two parts, one for the device and one for the person who'd have to input some kind of social security number. Is that really realistic or doable?
On top of this, I did some research on IP addresses. Apparently dynamic ones change depending on service provider and such. So I wonder, do service providers even exist anymore? Or would a decentralized internet be free?
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What exactly is a Mesh ID?
Mon, 2016-11-21 18:44
#1
Grim G
What exactly is a Mesh ID?
Mon, 2016-11-21 20:09
#2
UnitOmega
If I'm recalling that section
If I'm recalling that section on ID/tracking correctly, the Mesh ID is a lot like an IP - it's the ID of your specific mesh connected device. But, since this is the Mesh, you should only be losing connectivity in emergency situations or if you do something like a disconnect and reauthenticate. If this ID is tied to a device such as the Cranial computer in your basic mesh insert, it probably comes with a label or metadata which lets people know that it's yours - and such identifiers are how you actually use Mesh ID for ID purposes, like how if you have an IP Address of a device you might back-track the whole thing to the home and figure out who the owner is. E-mail is probably a hybrid of basically texting/sms service where you know which Mesh ID to dial, or sent through social networking services you log into however. Such system of accounts and access is slightly abstracted by the game - so thankfully we need not concern ourselves if fictitious characters use passwords which have character or length requirements.
As for if ISPs exist in the Transhuman future - well, I'm pretty sure this is actually something Mesh connectivity is supposed to get around. If you live in a place which might have an oppressive government who can order your internet shut off, you could use, say, Bluetooth to build small meshed networks between phones - or something. Since all mesh enabled devices basically function like a router, you'd still have some kind of network connectivity no matter what, unless you're under some kind of hard comms jamming. There's no need to pay directly to have a network maintained, it's just probably more secure and convenient. That said, you still need people to host certain kinds of web locales and programs, and probably to run expensive equipment to keep your localized mesh updated from intersystem locales - that's probably bundled into whatever resembles a taxation system your polity uses. Nimbus, I believe, is the hypercorp which handles most of that tech. Offering free wi-fi is probably pretty easy for any kind of business or social space too. Only places with very strict security or control are going to actively try and bottle network connections via some kind of specific business or government outlet - and even then that might just be an authorization thing, not a paid thing.
—
H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog
http://ephrep.blogspot.com/
Mon, 2016-11-21 21:52
#3
DivineWrath
From the book.
From the book.
Core Rulebook, p. 246
So its more like an IP address. Every device is unique. It can also used as identity and profile for a person. This is another reason why people might carry an ecto (or a few even) though they might have mesh inserts.
Its possible to get your device to use another Mesh ID. I don't know how exactly you would do that in game at this moment (I would have to look it up).
For the record, there is software today that does track people. Google uses it. Other companies use it. They can use IP address for this, but they can also can identify a device by the software it uses and has installed. I'm not an expert on how this works, but you should expect that some websites will know what version of windows you are using, what internet browser you're using, and what software you have installed, what CPU, motherboard, and hard drive you have...
...OK, I've creeped myself out enough that I want to go review some computer security stuff.
Tue, 2016-11-22 12:20
#4
LuisCarlos17f
My doubt, my question is if
My doubt, my question is if PCs can hack... wouldn't exurgent digital virus better hacker? If the PCs are like amateur homebrew video... and exurgent informatic virus would be a blockbuster Hollywood superproduction. Am I not right?
—
The Master Confucius said: “The noble man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony.” (Anaclet 13:23).
Tue, 2016-11-22 17:19
#5
DivineWrath
Players have many tools to
Players have many tools to help them hack.
First, Mesh Inserts does hacking stuff faster than an Ecto. On p. 245 under mesh interface, using an Ecto takes 25% longer for task actions, and time sensitive actions suffer a -10 penalty. This is due to trying to read, type, or even talk to the Ecto. If you want speed, use Mesh Inserts. If you want security, use an Ecto (you can easily throw it away or smash it).
Second, Infomorphs have a minimum speed rating of 3, and its not too hard to raise that to 4. Anyone in a physical morph is at a speed disadvantage since its harder to get speed as a physical morph. Extra mental actions through the use of multitasking or mental speed augments also plays a factor.
Third, you use software to hack. Its not like you're writing the code as you work. You are using complete programs. You give those programs instructions of what to do. In fact, you can even improve the software using rules on p. 247.
Fourth, you can fork to get multiple actors.
Unfortunately for players, exsurgent viruses can have all those tools and likely a high infosec skill. Maybe more. It is unwise to try to take on an exsurgent in a fair fight. Its best to sneak up on it then club it on the back of their head (or some equivalent action), or try to deny a fight completely (such as jamming all radio frequencies).
Tue, 2016-11-22 22:28
#6
SquireNed
One limitation of the
One limitation of the exsurgent virus is that it doesn't necessarily want to create large hardware or send out lots of signals that would give evidence of its location: unless it's able to infect everything with a fair guarantee, there's a good chance it winds up getting antimattered.
Wed, 2016-11-23 08:51
#7
BalazarLightson
MESH Tracks you - Use Anonymous Accounts
Every covert actor should have Anonymous Accounts, otherwise the Mesh tracks you...
Even current tech for that is interesting.
http://www.csiro.au/en/Research/D61/Areas/Wireless-and-networks/WASP-Wir...
Thu, 2016-11-24 09:34
#8
ThatWhichNeverWas
Computer Science is wierd.
Have to be quick because I don't have much time this week.
ISPs don't exist, because mesh networks make them obsolete - they simply aren't necessary anymore.
The Personal Mesh ID can be thought of as an IP number referring to a Virtual device, representing your personal software environment. This allows you to use a single ID system regardless of your system being independent of a specific hardware substrate - for that matter, it's a necessity of Distributed Processing systems.
It functions as a personal identifier/contact number because the target 'Device' can implicitly only have one user, who is therefore automatically the intended recipient.
—
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few.
But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
Thu, 2016-11-24 17:09
#9
Grim G
UnitOmega wrote:If this ID is
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you can't "back track" an IP back to it's owner. An IP can give you the city it's located in, but at that point it's all guess work as to where in that city it is. Also, what would this meta data tied to a device be? Would you have to register a mesh ID at some sort of office? Wouldn't that mean that habs have to communicate over ID to get rid of conflicting IDs? Further more, they'd probably want official ID to do that, so wouldn't anyone who knows your mesh ID be able to link it back to your Ego ID?
Thu, 2016-11-24 17:22
#10
Grim G
DivineWrath wrote:From the
How? It never really specifies that in the qoute.
But why wouldn't an ecto have the same ID? By this logic, destroying an ecto would destroy your ID, your rep. I thought the whole point of using an ecto was so you can ditch it and not be tracked physically.
I imagine some sort of software that masks the actual code, like a proxy IP but you use a made up one rather than someone else's host IP.
Thu, 2016-11-24 17:26
#11
Grim G
BalazarLightson wrote:Every
Yeah, that's another thing, I have no idea how anonymous accounts work either.
Thu, 2016-11-24 17:34
#12
Grim G
ThatWhichNeverWas wrote:ISPs
I don't know if that's entirely true. ISPs do have to hand you your IP, I would imagine if they did exist they would either be a government agency or have far lower subscription costs.
So, a Mesh ID is something for a PAN? I don't understand what you mean.
But how would the 'Device' sign it's user in? With a Brain Print ID?
Thu, 2016-12-01 08:22
#13
ThatWhichNeverWas
Your Morph is a device registered to your Mesh ID.
IRL Mesh networks use dynamic ID protocols – the entire point is that there is no centralized system upon which the network depends, beyond the software which runs on every device.
Now, EP Mesh IDs are full blown ID systems, not just routing data – when a device (or piece of ID-having software) is created, it gets a Mesh ID as a unique serial number, containing all metadata required to uniquely identify that device such as orbital position and time of creation.
This includes Morphs.
'Signing In' is synonymous with Ownership – When you buy/gain control of a device or piece of software it becomes registered to your Mesh ID, after which it only accepts admin-level commands from sources similarly bound to that ID.
—
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few.
But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
Thu, 2016-12-01 14:40
#14
DivineWrath
Grim G wrote:But why wouldn't
You are confusing Mesh ID with your profiles and user accounts. Everyone is creating a profile about you, not you keeping a profile of yourself. If your rep was only stored on your device(s), it would be easy for someone to hack their own rep to give them a high score they did not earn.
While many systems might lazily accept mesh IDs for logging in (common with public systems), it is not done everywhere. Especially places where security is important.
Eclipse Phase is the age of the Panopticon and self documenting systems. Also voyeurism and stalking. Privacy is a luxury you have to pay for... literally. There places where their whole business model is based around keeping itself clean of spying machines and allowing users to rent mesh time while being kept anonymous.
One of the points of having a disposable ecto is to be an extra layer of security and to use a Mesh ID not currently associated with you. There are ways to get such a device, such as having your own (possibly illegal) nanofab or contacting a friend in the black market. If you are skilled (and lucky enough), you can make it difficult or impossible to associate your disposable ecto with you.
Anyways, it is possible to use a different mesh ID.
Core Rulebook, p. 252
And yes, disposing of ectos is something that some people do.
Core Rulebook, p. 253
Fri, 2016-12-02 11:57
#15
Grim G
ThatWhichNeverWas wrote:Now,
So 1) What do you mean 'Signing In'? Like with a password like you would an Email? 2) You are saying there's two types of Mesh ID correct? One on the device and one on the mesh that's designated to a user? I could believe this but the books never really clarify this. I especially need to understand this because one of the active counter measures involves physically tracing you by "your mesh ID", but doesn't clarify whether that refers to your personal account or your device's ID. Further more, a personal mesh ID being like an Email would mean you can create them out of the blue like sock puppets, but that kind of tactic is never mentined, instead it's something about "falsifying your ID".
Fri, 2016-12-02 14:36
#16
Fenrir
Here is how how I think it
Here is how how I think it works:
When you'rr born, the local polity gives you a "citizen's account" on their servers, which has your personal information like name dob and criminal record.
Then, as a wee child, you get your first mesh inserts. These inserts have a mesh ID, which they use to talk to other devices wirelessly. Because they'rr hardwired to your brain, this becomes YOUR mesh ID; as part of the activation process it is connected to your personal account. If anyone wants to talk to you, they have 3 options: A) find one of your social media accounts (spacebook, orbitr, flitter, etc), and send you a private message on those, B) check your personal account info stored by the local polity: it will have your mesh ID, so they can network with you directly, or C) if they're in yohr immediate vicinity they can "ping" you, where they broadcast a "who is John Smith?" Message to everyone in range, and your muse goes "That's me! " for you, so they get it that way.
If you resleeve, your personal account is informed that you're changing mesh ids. A brainscan may be necessary, but as you're sleeving it shouldn't be hard to do both at the same time. Your personal account then displays the mesh id of your new inserts.
To log into yoyr spacebook page, you literally just go to the website. The website compares your mesh id to the one on your oublic account: if they maych, it logs you in. Paranoid people may have their muses create and use a password for extra verification. Your various soacebook pages all store your rep scores independantly of you, just like youtube stores likes for videos.
If you buy an ecto, it has its own mesh ID. When you use the mesh through the ecto, your having it act as a relay between your mesh inserts and the greater mesh. This means you can't log in to any of your personal accounts because the mesh ID is wrong, but anyone who interacts with your ecto will be able to reach the ecto again, so they can talk to you through it if necessary, and your mesh inswrts are still on, so you can log on with them without comrpomising your ecto's isentity.
If you're trying to find someone's physical location, you can check their public account for their current mesh ID. You can then ask the mesh where to find that mesh id, and the spimes near you will relay that search until they find a device talking to that mesh ID. That device will then say "they're near me!", which is returned back down the chain to you. You can then get the gps coordinates of that device, and check spime feeds near there for the person you're looking for. Some people's XP feeds are streamed strair to their apacebook pages. So you can use that to make tbe search easier.
If you want to go completely dark, you can have your mesh inserts use false mesh IDs. This is usually illegal, because it makes it almost impossible to know who you are, but then that's why you do it in the first place. While you're doing this, you cannot log in to any of your spacebook accounts (so no rep) because the mesh id is wrong.
Fri, 2016-12-02 15:47
#17
Grim G
Fenrir wrote:Here is how how
I can see how this would work, but not having access to any accounts with an ecto is a little preposterous. That would exclude most Jovians and any BioCons who don't want implants. Simply using a verification password or your previous mesh ID would be enough to allow access with that device. I mean, it's not like I can't access my Email from my phone and computer at the same time.
But more over, I'm starting to think mesh IDs, as explained, make no sense. They talk about how IDs come for both Users AND devices, but that's not how it works. You have to address an individual computer with an IP address (MP address in this case), while something assigned to a specific person is more abstract, like a Social Security number or an Email account.
Oh, and just one more thought before I forget. If Rep is stored on the mesh rather than the device, than how would you transfer Rep when traveling to a new hab?
Fri, 2016-12-02 16:11
#18
Fenrir
It says somewhere that the
It says somewhere that the people who run the rep things propogate the information between habs by sending the katest changes on any ships traveling (a service frequently provided with scum swarms, I imagine) and farcasting.
I agree mesh ids as SSNs don't make sense really. But I think the idea is that thanks to mesh inserts every person IS a device, and if your not a sentinal your mesh inswrts (and therefore your mesh id doesn't change often.
As for jovians, yeah they could log in with passwords, but I was assuming that yiu were using the ecto for security reasons. Once you log in, the ecto can be traced back to you, and its not doing you any good anymore.
Fri, 2016-12-02 18:30
#19
Grim G
Fenrir wrote:It says
Well, I would say everyone is multiple devices. Especially with nano and cyberware.
Fri, 2016-12-02 18:34
#20
Trappedinwikipedia
Mesh IDs aren't real ID for
Mesh IDs aren't real ID for people, Ego IDs are. There's no requirement for an Ego ID and Mesh ID to be connected, though they probably are in a lot of cases. An Ego ID or SAPIENT ID is more of an SSN, while a Mesh ID is more like a Google or Facebook account I think.
Fri, 2016-12-02 19:55
#21
Grim G
Trappedinwikipedia wrote:Mesh
If that were true than you could just make sock accounts instead of falsifying your own.
Sat, 2016-12-03 16:38
#22
DivineWrath
That actually does happen.
That actually does happen. Some people create AIs for the sole purpose of boosting their rep. The more real they seem, the better the deception works.
There is simply a too big of a loss of data to be certain of who was alive, who is still alive, and who never existed. The fall caused a lot of this data to be lost. The fact that habitats don't always share data with each other doesn't help either. Add in forking, creation of AGIs, creation of new uplifts, people trying to escape their old life, and so forth and the mess gets bigger. There is no central data center, no central authority declaring who is a person.
If you are looking for a game that has an infallible control over technology, try Nova Praxis. Their technology is so infallible that the major houses have to create back doors to the security to make their shadow war possible. They've had much more than 10 years to recover after their version of the fall. Also, a lot of their technology is reversed engineered stuff from massive data dumps left behind from a long vanished seed AI.
Fri, 2016-12-09 08:57
#23
ThatWhichNeverWas
It's unrealistic because we don't have the tech to make it real.
It's not that there's two different types of Mesh ID, but it's used for two different things.
The key element that I think you're missing is that the Mesh doesn't distinguish between devices, programs and users because [i]it simply doesn't have to[/i]: everything up to and including including your mind and body has ID numbers attached.
Fenrir almost had it but they missed a couple of details, the most pertinent being that if you get an Ecto it uses your ID when it talks to other systems, and just lists itself as a node on the routing system... unless you explicitly tell it not to use your ID, also known as 'Falsifying your ID'.
Contacting someone means sending a request to the recipient's communications software, which then routes the request to whichever I/O device they're using at the time.
—
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few.
But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?