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Transforma-bots and mecha

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Tue, 2013-01-22 16:41
#1
Prophet710 Prophet710's picture
Transforma-bots and mecha
Plausible considering canon tech? I'm thinking along the lines of Transformers, Robotech, Macross, The Viking from Starcraft 2, etc. Stuff that is at one point a vehicle and the next a combat robot and even a combination of the two. I have no background in engineering or mechanics. Just asking.
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"And yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this Earth with envious eyes. And slowly, and surely, they drew their plans against us."
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Tue, 2013-01-22 21:17
Kroeghe Kroeghe's picture
I think the main question is:
I think the main question is: what do you need it for? Anthropomorphic mecha seem like a bad idea, because they have high profile (are easy to spot and target), high centre of mass (easy to topple), bad mass distribution (only two legs to support the mass), and only one failure mode in case of a leg damage (tiiiimbeer!). They have one redeeming quality, though: they look cool - and it may be enough to used them for entertainment or sport purposes. Actual combat - not so much. As for the transforming part - it doesn't seem vary practical. Whichever form the vehicle is in - it has to carry a lot of useless mass (i.e. parts that only the other form can use). Transforming vehicles also seem very fragile and overly complicated. I'd rather use two separate, specialised vehicles, than one that's universal. Maybe modular designs would work better? Human capacity for making things that are impractical but cool is unsurpassed, though. Especially considering how easily available are resources and means of production of high-tech equipement in some parts of EP world. If you tell me they have battles of mecha-gladiators at Locus, I won't bat an eyelid. (What do I know, anyway.)
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Tue, 2013-01-22 21:58
fafromnice fafromnice's picture
first don't let the rules in
first don't let the rules in the way of a good idea ... or a cool idea if you want to keep "the reality" in the seting of Eclipse Phase i don't think Mecha are such a good idea, they are probably to rough to built and prone to brake but ... they are cool and fun rhyme with game (they actually don't but you know that) So in a idea of game dynamic I presume that a synth with an alternative way of transportation (in stats : +30 free running, -20 any task with hands) could be what you are searching (an early post had a table for creating custom morph somewhere) but, again, I presume that a synth with wheels for feets are more doable and don't have the drawback of a "transformer" morph for the classic Mecha Type with an operator, in my mind this is what the Jovian use for ground foot soldier ... but it will be bulky and not really fast, i don't know i need to tough about that I guess, don't like Jovian so they are not really in my plot
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What do you mean a butterfly cause this ? How a butterfly can cause an enviromental system overload on the other side of a 10 000 egos habitat ?

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Fri, 2013-02-01 12:00
Undocking Undocking's picture
Having power armour of sorts
Having power armour of sorts and exo-skeleton suits would be what you may be looking for to keep a hardish SF game feel. Mechs, as previous posters have pointed out, are not suitable for actual combat due to various structural problems.
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Fri, 2013-02-01 13:25
Rags Rags's picture
Mechs can be militarily
Mechs can be militarily useful, just in a limited way. Arachnid mechs dont have to deal with the high center of mass, high profile, dont fall down after being kneecapped, have good weight distribution and can go into terrain other vehicles can not. They still have issues off course but in certain circumstances arachnid mechs would be a viable military option. As for 'normal' bipedal mechs, they [i]might[/i] be viable if taken as an outgrowth of power armor and exo-skeletons that straddles the line between it and mechs. That is to say; all things being equal the power armor which is slightly better armored and armed than it's opponent will win. This would lead to more potent, more mech like power armor. Off course past a certain point those designs will run headfirst into the issues other posters talked about.
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Tue, 2013-03-19 03:50
Castlereagh Castlereagh's picture
Consider that the Corebook
Consider that the Corebook includes "anthroform" as a sample field for the Pilot skill, it doesn't seem that the games writers were entirely offput by the idea of the players tromping around in something just a little bit "stompy." In my own games, I've had my players tangle with a variant of the Hoplite suit that forgoes its operator's compartment for extra hardware, and is typically piloted by an Infolife or is jammed remotely. It's not exactly a giant mech, more like a TAG out of infinity. I think Eclipse Phase might present a very sensible rationale for humanoid war-machines. It's probably easier to train a human operator to sleeve into a machine with analogous limbs than it is to force them to adjust to being a nine-armed death-saucer. It's only my two cents, but I don't think it's hard to imagine an organization in Eclipse Phase buying a couple of anthroform-walkers to save credits on the psychiatry bills.
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The lonely fox chases after the one eyed hound. [img=350x20]http://eclipsephase.com/sites/all/modules/custom_ep/profile_bars/tc_user...
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Tue, 2013-03-19 06:55
kowalzcky kowalzcky's picture
As I see it, plausible
As I see it, plausible probably in some degree, but not really practical for the army or militias. I assume in my campaing that there are fighting circles of big robots and small mechas; its mentioned in the sunward book that one of the biggest MMOs is a variant of BattleTech!(its till alive in 10AF!!) so I made the leap of suposing that some people will preffer the "real thing" something like the WWE or the MMA with famous pilots and so. just imagine that instead of John Cena or the Undertaker you have a 5 meters tall combat robot and you got a very successfull bussines! Or maybe something more in the tune of the motor ball of Battle Angel Alita( I know the real name its Gunnm) So they can exist at a certain degree? yes, can they smash the players if for some reason they have to fight one? yes, are they used in dailybasis? not at all.
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[img]http://boxall.no-ip.org/img/tc_userbar.jpg[/img]
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Sat, 2013-03-30 06:43
Smokeskin Smokeskin's picture
Tentacles don't make much
Tentacles don't make much sense compared to limbs imo. In terms of complexity, armor and strength, a normal limb makes a lot more sense. With the diverse terrain in EP, limbs for locomotion makes a lot of sense. Tracks and wheels don't work well in micro-g and have low mobility in many types of terrain, without atmosphere rotors don't work and don't allow for heavy armor and cannons, cold thrusters are weak and hot thrust is fuel-intense, obvious and problematic inside habs. A humanoid robot can run and jump in almost any environment and do it stealthily, it can crawl and climb for further mobility, it can use cover very well with its ability to stand up and peek over, lean out or go prone, it can push, carry and manipulate objects. Helicopters, tanks and jet fighters will demolish humanoid robots in environments that play to their advantage, but in EP that seems to rarely be the case. The real issue is: are smaller morphs better than big robots? That largely depends on what sort of weapons the morphs need to punch through big robot armor, how much firepower the big robots can carry, and if it is needed. If robots are very vulnerable to morph-portable seekers, they would most likely see use only in artillery/fire support roles. If morphs vs robots are like present day infantry vs tanks, they'd be the dominant units in front line combat. Bottom line is, I don't see robots as unrealistic at all. In many EP environments I don't see another platform for cannons and heavy armor.
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Sat, 2013-03-30 17:11
Castlereagh Castlereagh's picture
Smokeskin wrote:
Smokeskin wrote:
Bottom line is, I don't see robots as unrealistic at all. In many EP environments I don't see another platform for cannons and heavy armor.
You make a lot of good points. I'd like to stress that you'd get the maximum utility out of such a machine if it was sized to the point where you could squint at it for ten minutes trying to decide whether it is a small vehicle or just a large morph. I'm not sure they'd be best used as a heavy hitter like a Tank. I think a walker would be more usefull in a tactical support role, like a jeep. It moves faster than infantry, it's small arms resistant and it can carry mission essential equipment that is too heavy for the infantry. A 12-16 foot robot could crouch down to 9-12 feet. It could kneel to 6-9 feet. So a machine like that could still use a One-Story building for cover. It could support an infantry team with suppressing fire, and it could bring around a non-metaphorical ton of ammunition, including as many disposable seeker launchers as the team could want. It might be a legitimate question, why you would want the robot to be 2-armed/2-legged. In a previous post I mentioned that it's less psychologically taxing for the pilot to be sleeved into an anthropomorphic robot. Another consideration may be that though a bipedal morph can go prone and be as low to the ground as an Arachnoid, an Arachnoid cannot make itself as tall as the humanoid morph. The human morph can go from total cover behind a 1 story building, to firing directly over the top of that building. I'm not arguing that a humanoid is an indespensible war-machine, but I wouldn't relegate it to a Sport-only novelty. If transhumans in Eclipse Phase are still wearing Battlesuits into combat, then a 12 foot robot should do fine.
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The lonely fox chases after the one eyed hound. [img=350x20]http://eclipsephase.com/sites/all/modules/custom_ep/profile_bars/tc_user...
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Sat, 2013-03-30 19:11
Smokeskin Smokeskin's picture
Castlereagh wrote:
Castlereagh wrote:
I'm not sure they'd be best used as a heavy hitter like a Tank. I think a walker would be more usefull in a tactical support role, like a jeep. It moves faster than infantry, it's small arms resistant and it can carry mission essential equipment that is too heavy for the infantry.
I'm not sure they are best used as tanks either. It depends on the details of weaponry, mobility and armor available to morphs and bots of different sizes.
Quote:
It might be a legitimate question, why you would want the robot to be 2-armed/2-legged. In a previous post I mentioned that it's less psychologically taxing for the pilot to be sleeved into an anthropomorphic robot. Another consideration may be that though a bipedal morph can go prone and be as low to the ground as an Arachnoid, an Arachnoid cannot make itself as tall as the humanoid morph. The human morph can go from total cover behind a 1 story building, to firing directly over the top of that building. I'm not arguing that a humanoid is an indespensible war-machine, but I wouldn't relegate it to a Sport-only novelty.
Yeah, and also spiders don't need their limbs protected from enemy fire - war robots do, and with fewer limbs you get more power and armor at the same weight. Fewer limbs are better, but fewer than 4 and you can't both crawl, stand, climb, etc.
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Fri, 2013-05-10 04:08
Baalbamoth Baalbamoth's picture
why does this bug me so much...
look... I hate anime, hate furries, and get no thrils or satisfaction from macross fandom. I really dont want this included in my game. If this is just some guy's desire to slap some mecha into his home game fine. I just dont want to see anything with a robot/jet/tank or whatever as a cannon suppliment. its totally unecessary and absolutely breaks the mood when I get into wanting a hard sci-fi game. There are plenty of other games where transformerbots and gundams and furries, are at the center of the rules, why do people always want to stick chocolate in my peanut butter, I like my peanut butter the way it is. chocolate does not make it MOAR AWSOM!
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"what do I want? The usual — hundreds of grandchildren, complete dominion over the known worlds, and the pleasure of hearing that all my enemies have died in highly improbable accidents that cannot be connected to me."
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Sat, 2013-05-25 18:57
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Things that bug us
Baalbamoth wrote:
look... I hate anime, hate furries, and get no thrils or satisfaction from macross fandom.
Hehehe... which is why it is so fun to build whatever *doesn't fit* using the logic of the game. Especially if your players share your dislikes as GM they will be surprised and hopefully disturbed when they meet the mechas (OK, it is a garage project from the rural gearheads in Syrtis Major), the furries (it is the latest biosculpting fashion on Venus this month), anime characters (wait... neotenics, sylphs, striking looks, hair of arbitrary colours, eyes that are trivial to biosculpt - a disturbing fraction of the hyperelite might actually look like they stepped out of anime). Then you take the "wrong genre" stuff and twist it EP style. Yeah, mecha don't make much military sense. So when the bad guys attack the fuel station in Syrtis naive players will get the idea to jump into one of the mechas and make an unforgettable counter-attack. Unforgettable indeed, since they will be cut-down by the enemies who keep to sensible cover and fire seekers at their knees... but what a way to go! Definitely a memory to cherish once you are back from your stack. Oh, another creepy prepubescent sexy morph... oh, she is your boss for this mission. OK, she will turn out to be a really sensible Firewall engineer who just had to morph into something odd... Nope, she (or rather, *he*) is a really *twisted* Firewall engineer who lives up to every prejudice against anime fans imaginable. And takes enormous delight in it... because that was the addiction his ex programmed into him using a bit of psychosurgery, and now he cannot bring himself to fix because it is his only link to lost love. Which is why he is so desperate to get you into the tentacle trap... awww, true love. OK, uplifts aren't bad - some of your best friends are non-human. And Ne Plus Ultra is a decent bodyguard despite being a human sleeved into a wolf body (best not to think too much about his partying). You are even nearly all right with those artist cephalopods who sleeved into human bodies and play-act being entirely normal... eerie, but polite. But you draw the line at sleeving animals into human bodies... or running them on ghostrider modules with custom "telepathy" links so the owner can tap into their reactions to "enrich your emotional and behavioural repertoire". And now you need to impress one of those people to get access to their network.
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Extropian
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Sat, 2013-05-25 19:31
CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture
Baalbamoth wrote:
Baalbamoth wrote:
There are plenty of other games where transformerbots and gundams and furries, are at the center of the rules, why do people always want to stick chocolate in my peanut butter, I like my peanut butter the way it is. chocolate does not make it MOAR AWSOM!
Has anyone ever told you that you are one of the most annoying bitch-ass whiners they have ever met? Because I hope to god that you get reminded of that fact on the daily. Guess what? No-one is mixing chocolate in your peanut butter. No-one is going to come to whatever forsaken table that you run, and I want to make it clear that I pity those people, and force you to use stuff FROM THE GODDAMN HOMEBREW SECTION of the Eclipse Phase forums. This might come as a surprise, but no-one gives a flying fuck. You don't need to come into every single forum topic and bitch and whine that people aren't playing the One True Way and that they are committing the terrible sin of BadWrong Fun, as proclaimed by Baalbamoth. We don't need to hear about how much your bigoted little ass hates the furries, or how much you hate FATE, or how much the inclusion of science fiction elements that you personally don't like lessens the purity of Eclipse Phase. I say again, no-one gives a shit. Jesus fucking Christ. Day after day of bitching and whining from you. You have had zero positive contribution to these forums. Close to every single one of your posts has been either a backhanded insult or just plain whining. I am amazed that I seem to be the first one to mention it! Maybe I just have a lower tolerance for asshole than everyone else here. Or maybe I'm alone in feeling that way. Either way, shut the fuck up already. Now back I go to my lurking and my whiskey. Edit: Holy fuck it was from two weeks ago. That does not surprise me in the least.
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Sun, 2013-05-26 00:54
Lysus Lysus's picture
CodeBreaker wrote:Baalbamoth
CodeBreaker wrote:
Baalbamoth wrote:
There are plenty of other games where transformerbots and gundams and furries, are at the center of the rules, why do people always want to stick chocolate in my peanut butter, I like my peanut butter the way it is. chocolate does not make it MOAR AWSOM!
Has anyone ever told you that you are one of the most annoying bitch-ass whiners they have ever met? Because I hope to god that you get reminded of that fact on the daily. Guess what? No-one is mixing chocolate in your peanut butter. No-one is going to come to whatever forsaken table that you run, and I want to make it clear that I pity those people, and force you to use stuff FROM THE GODDAMN HOMEBREW SECTION of the Eclipse Phase forums. This might come as a surprise, but no-one gives a flying fuck. You don't need to come into every single forum topic and bitch and whine that people aren't playing the One True Way and that they are committing the terrible sin of BadWrong Fun, as proclaimed by Baalbamoth. We don't need to hear about how much your bigoted little ass hates the furries, or how much you hate FATE, or how much the inclusion of science fiction elements that you personally don't like lessens the purity of Eclipse Phase. I say again, no-one gives a shit. Jesus fucking Christ. Day after day of bitching and whining from you. You have had zero positive contribution to these forums. Close to every single one of your posts has been either a backhanded insult or just plain whining. I am amazed that I seem to be the first one to mention it! Maybe I just have a lower tolerance for asshole than everyone else here. Or maybe I'm alone in feeling that way. Either way, shut the fuck up already. Now back I go to my lurking and my whiskey. Edit: Holy fuck it was from two weeks ago. That does not surprise me in the least.
I can't say I disagree with the sentiment.
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Sun, 2013-05-26 06:34
nick012000 nick012000's picture
CodeBreaker wrote:*snip epic
CodeBreaker wrote:
*snip epic rant*
If this forum had an "upvote post" feature, you'd have just gotten one.
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+1 r-Rep , +1 @-rep

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Sun, 2013-05-26 07:07
Armoured Armoured's picture
Arenamontanus wrote:*snip*
Arenamontanus wrote:
*snip*
Yup, this is pretty much how the books put forward the EP setting anyway. Sounds pretty realistic when you consider (trans)human nature as well.
CodeBreaker wrote:
*snip, glorious truth*
That was... beautiful. Now we have a link to post every time Baalbamoth posts a bitchy comment (in other words, after every single post he makes). Thank you. ^_^
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Sun, 2013-05-26 13:14
Prophet710 Prophet710's picture
Well that escalated. I want
Well that escalated. I want to thank you all for your input, at least those that have had input anyway. More questions. We keep saying power armor, which I can understand. Are we looking at something bulky and big such as Starship Troopers (the book) or Section 8 (the game)? Or is this armor going to have the same kind of capabilities and be thin and sleek such as Dead Space or Mass Effect?
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"And yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this Earth with envious eyes. And slowly, and surely, they drew their plans against us."
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Sun, 2013-05-26 18:00
Armoured Armoured's picture
Larger armour!
I would say that the heavy body armour listed in the EP core (p 312) is very similar to Mass Effect or Dead Space's suits. Remember that Mass Effect suits have kinetic barrier shields though, which make them tougher, but don't fit into the hard-SF of EP. Check out The Eye fanzine issue 1 for some homebrew kinetic barriers though. :) Battlesuits in EP are treated as small vehicles, though as they would use Pilot (walker) you could handwave that if people are wearing them. With their enhanced strength and massive armour, they must be at least 8' tall, if someone is encased in it. I imagine that they are rather like Section 8 armour. I would say start from there and work upwards for statistics on larger powered armour suits, giving them more armour, more weapon hardpoints, and possibly bigger weapons. Why make them bigger? Well, Rule of Cool. Hell yeah giant robots, man. If it works for your game, use it! If you must have a scientific reason for them, just make up something. If it works for Gundam, it can work for you. (Gundam's example: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MinovskyParticle )
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Tue, 2013-09-10 03:07
thezombiekat thezombiekat's picture
Hate to be a thread
Hate to be a thread necromancer but nobody mentioned flex bots. With that tech transformers are easy, if not cheap.
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Tue, 2013-09-10 10:53
Baalbamoth Baalbamoth's picture
hadent even read the responses,
just wrote it off transformers as a another bad idea by furry anime fanatics, but saw there was a new posting in the homebrew section and lo and behold I got a furry ranting at me, see this is why people hate furries and general fandom nerds. I specifically wrote "If this is just some guy's desire to slap some mecha into his home game fine." put my post on there and was done, but codebreaker wants to go all personal, and apparently he's got some other questionably straight dudes that like to touch themselves when thinking of robots and farm animals ready to back his play. don't care, so keep bitching about my posts, lie about my contributions, use a lot of profanity so you can think your a bad ass, and maybe someday you get over all that kiddy crap, learn to appreciate a hard sci fi role playing game for what it is rather than trying to shove storytelling, transformers, furry sex, and pokemon into it every other topic. grow up. ps 3rd week of the game, 6 players, ages 20-45, most I didn't know till I ran EP at an open game night are having an absolute blast, I cant even keep up with all the emails. whatever I'm doing... I'm doing it right.
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"what do I want? The usual — hundreds of grandchildren, complete dominion over the known worlds, and the pleasure of hearing that all my enemies have died in highly improbable accidents that cannot be connected to me."
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Wed, 2013-09-11 09:13
Smokeskin Smokeskin's picture
Baalbamoth wrote:
Baalbamoth wrote:
ps 3rd week of the game, 6 players, ages 20-45, most I didn't know till I ran EP at an open game night are having an absolute blast, I cant even keep up with all the emails. whatever I'm doing... I'm doing it right.
That's hard evidence that no one would enjoy storytelling, transformers or furry games more.
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Wed, 2013-09-11 12:44
CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture
Psst. Not a furry. Not even
Psst. Not a furry. Not even close to a furry. Just not a dick. Odd that more people seem to agree with me (and have done in private elsewhere) than not. Or at least more people are vocal about agreeing with me. Perhaps you should consider that telling? Though I should perhaps mention that since your small break from the forums, and subsequent return a couple of weeks ago, you have been much more bearable. In fact I would say you have been one of the better contributors since that return.
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Wed, 2013-09-11 19:40
Baalbamoth Baalbamoth's picture
ill be honest here
I feel like the tabletop hobby is getting constantly dumbed down in favor of "rules light" systems more akin to MMOs than true RPGs, one element of that that I see again and again is the inclusion of general fandom subjects like transformers, furrys, etc etc a little of that is OK with me but I see those fanatics pushing and pushing for more content, rules, and fluff in the official game and clearly the developers listen to that loud minority and slowly the game does change into something they love and I hate. I'm watching that happen with D&D Next right now, characters will start out as first level dragon-men superheros, character development more of an afterthought than necessary inclusion. So im not supprised your getting more support than me on forums, but go talk to some 40 year old gamers (which still make the largest demographic of tabletop gamers) and ask that unvocal minority what they think of including that type of content in an existing hard sci fi RPG and you'll hear a different tune. WOTC didn't listen to those people, 4.0 was a monumental failure, and now they toss token support for older play styles at us and expect that will draw us back.... it won't. So if I seem bigoted, judgemental, and angry I guess I am but not without good reason. And I just hate watching a good game with an attentive design team make all the same mistakes others have made before leading ultimately to the alienation of their non-outspoken major fan base. Let the furries and mecha junkies have their specialized games but for the love of gygax stop trying to turn EP and other old school systems into something their not to turn a few quick kick starter bucks.
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"what do I want? The usual — hundreds of grandchildren, complete dominion over the known worlds, and the pleasure of hearing that all my enemies have died in highly improbable accidents that cannot be connected to me."
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Thu, 2013-09-12 01:36
thezombiekat thezombiekat's picture
I hate to say it but it is
I hate to say it but it is inevitable that furies will exist in the EP setting. It is a setting populated by humans many of whom will have been furies and modifying any humanoid morph into the appearance of a furry is a simple biosculpt. If you really think this has not happened in a setting that included the carnival of the goat you’re kidding yourself. At least all the cat girls are fake (although I just came up with a crazy idea for some exhumans who crafted mind patches onto themselves from a cat without realising that cats are not nice). As for transformers, the flexbot is crying in the corner wondering what it ever did to make you hate it so much. Come on man, this is the Home brew forum. Save the rants about the fate of the hobby for when somebody demands cat uplifts that meekly obey there masters and full on macros style veratechs in the next canon book
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Thu, 2013-09-12 05:45
Baalbamoth Baalbamoth's picture
how often do you see somebody in our society...
walk down the street in the full body sexy space hamster suit? there are furrys in our society, and they pretty much act the way you'd expect em to, generally you'll never know unless you attend one of their ahem conventions, and I'd really love to hear the court case where somebody demands equal protection under discrimination laws because they were born in the wrong species. a flexbot isnt a transformer, there is no "verotech" flex bot, theres no good reason for it, just like theres really no good reason for mecha other than some kind of fasion statement. in the future there would be very few people who decided to biosculpt to become cat-people, in oursociety it is possible and theres like one crazy old chick in new york that did it, so I really dont expect the future will be furries and verotecs everywhere you look. but if you read these postings, that seems like exactly what some people want, not a real glimpse into what a transhuman future might be like, but an excuse to be furry in a game that wasnt made for it, kinda like they are suckering the other poor gamers at the table into dealing with this schlock. yeah its a rant, and yeah I probably should just let it pass, lol I just cant! it drives me flibbin nuts.
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"what do I want? The usual — hundreds of grandchildren, complete dominion over the known worlds, and the pleasure of hearing that all my enemies have died in highly improbable accidents that cannot be connected to me."
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Thu, 2013-09-12 10:27
thezombiekat thezombiekat's picture
Check out the movement modes
Check out the movement modes available to a flex bot. (TH p 208) walker (including bipedal with 2 arms) roller and winged, most modules have hover available as well. So it can form into a robot, a car, an airplane, a helicopter, a submarine and any number of other forms besides. The only thing they don’t have that transformers do is size. And they can have that too if you put enough of them together. (Although 10 small flex bots is far more powerful than one big one) And the main reason furies today don’t wander around there normal life in character is due to cost (which is greatly reduced in EP) and the likelihood of negative judgments being made against them (which will still be present in the inner system, although some indentured adult entertainers are probably stuck in bunny pods, greatly reduced in anarchist habs and totally absent on most scum swarms) You are of cause correct that very few people would bio sculpt to become cat people. As a proportion of the total population. But that does leave you with an active subculture. But like all the other minor subcultures it doesn’t need to show up in your game. Having viewed the interned as much as I have however I could not believe that humanity would leave behind that particular fetish.
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Thu, 2013-09-12 11:16
Armoured Armoured's picture
On flexbots: This topic was
On flexbots: This topic was mainly discussed before the Transhuman book was finished, so we didn't know about them yet. However they pretty perfectly fit into the transformer mold; only they take the idea of different forms for different tasks to the extreme. Vehicle-sized flexbots are an interesting point to think about from a hard-science viewpoint. In the solar system, there is a limited number of environments that they would be more useful than built-for-purpose vehicles, but I could see them being popular in the resource-poor outer system. For Gatecrashing though, they would be excellent. Vacuum on the other side? Its a spaceship. Entering a alien structure? humanoid/spider form. Sure, drones can do this, but an ego would prefer to be riding in a huge lump of reconfigurable mass, especially if they suspect danger (lets be honest, when you're Gatecrashing, there is ALWAYS danger). As for furries and their ilk in EP: firstly as thezombiekat mentions, it is setting-canon that people explore and use animalistic bodies. The Carnival of the Goat is a thing, though people are free to homebrew and leave that aspect out of their personal games if they do not want to deal with that material. Secondly, one of the things that many people enjoy about Eclipse Phase is its enthusiastic exploration of most of the Transhumanism movement's philosophies. Many of the ideas and movements enveloped within transhumanism are embedded in the setting, and encouraged for inspiring Game Masters. One of the spread of transhumanism's few universal values is freedom; for your body, altering your mind, building of societies, sexual orientation, and gender itself. I would say that the majority of transhumanists would strongly support anyone's wishes to change their morph to a cat-person, if and when it is possible. Unsurprisingly, many people who play Eclipse Phase are followers and supporters of transhumanist ideas and values. To Baalbamoth: this is why your position is so looked down on by other forum members. Telling people they shouldn't be furries, and your persistent implications that gay people aren't worth your time or attention, is directly counter to transhumanist values. People don't care that you are bigoted against one or another minority, but when you state that your beliefs should be more important than theirs, especially in a section of the forum dedicated to new, non-official ideas and rules, you are going to receive pushback for them.
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Thu, 2013-09-12 12:22
thezombiekat thezombiekat's picture
Armoured wrote:
Armoured wrote:
To Baalbamoth: this is why your position is so looked down on by other forum members. Telling people they shouldn't be furries, and your persistent implications that gay people aren't worth your time or attention, is directly counter to transhumanist values. People don't care that you are bigoted against one or another minority, but when you state that your beliefs should be more important than theirs, especially in a section of the forum dedicated to new, non-official ideas and rules, you are going to receive pushback for them.
well said
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Fri, 2013-09-13 04:29
Baalbamoth Baalbamoth's picture
ok you clearly dont get transhuman vs transhumanist.
"to me" transhuman is just going from human to something else, a period of transition. transhuman is not transhumanism "transhumanist" is a philosophical stance I strongly disagree with, worse, Max More, and his wife Vita-More who I personally talked with at length in the 90s keep perverting the base understanding of "transhuman" ideas/ideals into extropianism and "transhumanism" which is basically extropianism light. you want a link to transhuman ideas here it is... retoric free... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhuman to the Mores, who got their base ideas off some guy calling himself (facepalm) "FM-2030" their basically inseperable, to me their anything but connected. pay close attention to this line... "Many thinkers today do not consider FM-2030's characteristics to be essential attributes of a transhuman." you wanna see another prime example of transhuman ideals taken totally the wrong way? check out these guys... "the magnito side of the transhumanist equasion" http://transtopia.net/ yup, neo-nazi transhumanists who think we'll get rid of blacks, asians, jews, and mexicans once we uplift, and if people dont want to... because THEY are the ones who have the will to power, they will force it on you. you have to traverse a few websites to get to their real agenda but once there, feel free to follow their links to Stormfront the neo nazi site. and again... these people identify themselves as transhumanists. all that schlock on wikipedia and the supposed "transhuman values" is what Moore and his wife are pushing, and yeah it really pisses me off that I cant have a discussion on what I think transhuman values are or should be without somebody telling me "oh yeah, More and his wife created those" no they didnt, not at all, go do your research. further, I have absolutely no problem with gay or lesbian or transgender people, I've had gay roomates, had really great transgender and drag queen friends, and played bass in a crossdressing punk band. so no, your jumping to a lot of conclusions there. I do have a problem with.. uh... flamers and furries though, theres really no reason for trying to shove your sexuality on other people, or scaring kids by being perverted in public. your gay, fine, but why wear hot pink short shorts and rollerskates when going to a bank job interview, then threaten to sue the bank manager if you dont get hired due to discrimination? or "come out" to your family that your a furry, scare and confuse your mom by telling her you engage in furry sex, and then tell all of them if they dont accept your strange fetishes they are guilty of "furscrimination." I had a friend who did exactly this, and thats when I decided I dont like furries and dont need friends who do crap like that. on to the verotecs, yeah flexbots can become a lot of different things, I sort of imagine them like the living leggos that they had in stargate (forgot the name of em) but thats not a "tranformer" yeah they can change their movment type, their body make up, but none of them become a 40 ft tall 50 ton bipedal robot who runs down city streets without destroying the city, the physics of that are patently impossible. thats what I dont want to see make its way into the game, further, I really doubt a hab sized flexbot would follow the same movement rules as a smaller sized flexbot.
—
"what do I want? The usual — hundreds of grandchildren, complete dominion over the known worlds, and the pleasure of hearing that all my enemies have died in highly improbable accidents that cannot be connected to me."
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