going through the variety of blades and other options for throwing weapons, the most obvious one would be the basic knife.
im uncertain however if the damage would be according to the usual Mele knife damage?
would there be a potential damage bonus based on your throwing weapon skill?
secondly. which weapons are reasonable to throw? for example, throwing monofilament swords would seem pretty reasonable to me, and would do twice as much damage if it were calculated as if it were a normal mele attack.
im tempted to just find a compromise, such as monofilament or diamond knife, but i would have to create the damage value and armor penetration from scratch.
from a strategic point of view, its difficult to justify the use of mele weapons in this game, considering many of the ranged weapons are normaly capable of at least twice as much damage.
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throwing weapons?
Sat, 2010-05-01 23:08
#1
throwing weapons?
Mon, 2010-05-03 17:15
#2
Re: throwing weapons?
Actually, a throwing weapon is more likely to do less damage when thrown than when used in melee combat. In melee combat, attacks will have the full backing of your weight and momentum, while thrown weapons only have the force that they are thrown with. Moreover, most weapons have to be designed with throwing in mind. A monofilament sword will probably make a horrible throwing weapon because its form factor is simply too long and bulky. A throwing weapon has to be balanced and shaped for flight. However, I can imagine that you should be able to purchase throwing versions of most knives, and smaller throwing versions of weapons like the vibroblade and monofilament sword.
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
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Mon, 2010-05-03 17:02
#3
Re: throwing weapons?
I never understood people saying that melee weapons where useless. A fair few of my fights take place in the cramped surroundings of a Spaceship corridor or a Hab access tunnel. If anything I always have trouble keeping *away* from my enemies.
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Tue, 2010-05-04 00:44
#4
Re: throwing weapons?
People often forget all the disadvantages that firearms entail. While it is true that they are definitely far superior to melee weapons in most regards (ranged weaponry has been the standard for combat for centuries, and missile volleys were often used by ancient forces until ammunition ran out), there are many scenarios in which melee weapons are simply a better choice:
[list][*]Close range: this one is the most obvious, but a ranged weapon is too cumbersome and difficult to wield when your enemy is standing right next to you.
[*]Ammunition: most melee weapons have infinite use (so long as they don't break), so another obvious advantage is the lack of need to reload or carry spare ammo.
[*]Collateral damage: friendly fire is anything but friendly, and firing into a crowd of people, both ally and enemy, is a sure way to piss of your buddies. It is far easier to avoid hurting your allies with a hand-to-hand weapon. More to this point, a vacuum seal is crucial to the operation of a ship and the survival of its denizens; you're less likely to create a breach with a sword than a pistol, no matter how sharp it is.[/list]
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
[url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Tue, 2010-05-04 16:31
#5
Re: throwing weapons?
i see the points which have been made regarding the effectiveness of close combat.
but one question still remains. what would be a fair way to calculate damage from a knife which is designed and intended to be thrown?
Tue, 2010-05-04 17:37
#6
Re: throwing weapons?
I would be tempted to say that thrown weapons deal about the same damage as the melee version, but takes a -20 Blades skill penalty when used in melee (it really isn't designed for use in hand-to-hand, and the handle is different shaped... not for comfort, but for aerodynamic flight). The melee version of the weapon, when thrown, takes a -10 Throwing Weapons skill penalty when thrown, but also takes a damage penalty (I'd say divide the damage dice in half).
Of course, since this is a future with nanotechnology, it is possible that knives are made of smart materials, and capable of changing shape. If such is the case, then you can probably ignore all penalties, and assume they deal the same damage no matter how used, so long as you make it change shape before using it in a specific facility.
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
[url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Tue, 2010-05-04 23:18
#7
Re: throwing weapons?
if theres a materal capable of changing shapes, with for example the application of electric current, then the knife would also arguably be capable of piercing the target, penetrating far enough in, and then dramatically changing shape inside the victim. for example transforming from a concentrated mass knife shape into a ball of thin spokes which jut out several inches from the center. something like THIS would arguably be able to inflict crap-loads of damage.
this kind of technology would probably be possible with an electrically activated ultra-viscous fero-fluid, and a small circuit involving a small capacitor in the hilt of the knife.
ALTHOUGH, if this were the case, and depending on the fluid, the knife could maintain a current and magnetic field BEFORE it enters the target, holding the fero-fluid in the desired knife shape, then upon penetration the field could simply deactivate allowing the high density heavy metal to poison the target in a way which would be very very difficult to recover from. fero-fluids do really nasty horrible things to lungs, livers, hearts and brains.
i suppose i just have to get as creative as possible with it and see what my GM has to say.
Wed, 2010-05-05 01:41
#8
Re: throwing weapons?
I doubt that smart materials have the tensile strength to reshape themselves while under the pressure that your body would exert as the object is inserted. Ammunition utilizing smart materials tends to reshape during flight, rather than on impact, somewhat supporting that idea. Ferro fluids have virtually no tensile strength at all, so they would make horrible weapons by and large.
Besides, there are far more devastating means of dealing damage without the utilization of smart materials. Throwing knives made of a non-soft plastic explosive, with an internal battery unit designed to send out an electrical charge on impact would be downright devastating, and far more effective than anything you could do with something like throwing knives that reshape on impact. Reshapable throwing/melee knives would just be an interesting idea for someone who would like a melee weapon that could be thrown in emergency purposes.
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
[url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Wed, 2010-05-05 02:30
#9
Re: throwing weapons?
todays fero fluids would yes indeed not be up to the task, but thats more of a problem of the strength of a magnetic/electric field required to shape the fluid with enough force would necessitate really large equipment. whether such materials CAN possibly have the strength or not is highly debatable. the fact that the in game ammunition reshapes before impact really doesn't lend itself to either argument, if the material is indeed not strong enough to reshape inside a target it wouldn't make much sense for it to be strong enough to IMPACT a target without further deforming, rendering it completely useless against even basic metal armor.
theres a vast expanse of techniques and materials one could try. explosions are a relatively obvious way of inflicting lots of damage, but are the opposite of silent, which is a rather important feature of blades. this also negates the factor that someone previously pointed out regarding collateral damage in pressurized environments and artificial habitats such as space stations. such a technique would be similar, but inferior to just plain bombing the bastards.
besides, this is the same game which contains beam weapons, portals to other parts of the universe, creatures which LIVE near the surface of the SUN, and swarms of robots smaller than some protein molecules. i'm pretty sure i can find a way to justify pretty much anything from a technological standpoint. what i'm looking for is originality points along with some strategic sense.
Wed, 2010-05-05 02:42
#10
Re: throwing weapons?
Actually, it does make sense for smart materials. They are essentially swarms of nanomachines which can actively rearrange themselves and interconnect, forming a strong bond in the process. While in a specific shape, they likely have great tensile strength, but very little while reshaping, meaning that they cannot apply much pressure while in movement. Once they finish and take on a specific shape, however, chances are that they are very strong. While I agree that ferro-fluids may likely have greater strength with a stronger magnetic field, we also have to remember the logistical advantages of such a weapon. Why create a massive magnetic field solely for the sake of holding fast a single throwing knife, when that is a massive expenditure of energy for a relatively small function? A bladed glass outer shell with poison on the inside would be equally effective, and wouldn't require the massive amount of energy necessary to hold a ferro-fluid suspension in the form of a knife. Not to mention storage of such a weapon: the fluid would need to be under a constant magnetic field, lest it turn to goo in your pocket.
While I agree that a throwing knife with explosives would be anything but silent, such a weapon, with a small enough amount of explosive, may still be a very potent weapon for utilization even in a habitat. It would only take a very small internal explosion to be absolutely devastating to a soft target, and such an explosion may have minimal effect on the harder surfaces internal to a ship. In fact, the wasp knife essentially works to that effect, bursting with gas upon impact... this would make a perfect throwing weapon, especially since it would be lethal to most targets, whether in vacuum, heavy pressure, or even in standard earth air pressure (a well-placed wasp knife will almost definitely introduce gaseous oxygen to the bloodstream, which is slow-acting but lethal for normal humans).
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
[url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]