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Spaceship combat solution plus custom gear idea

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Sat, 2010-01-30 21:12

It that must no... It that must not be named's picture

Spaceship combat solution plus custom gear idea

This is a very hard post for me to make as I personally hate steve jackson and most of the people at his game company. (Everyone knows they grow 'em bigger in texas. Too bad that applies especially to assholes.) But then again I'm committed to Eclipse phase and helping it's community grow given my respect for the daring and innovative marketing planthe game was released under, and that outweighs, by a truly minuscule margin, my hatred for SJ and his minions. So as much as it pains me to I have to recommend a SJG product as a solution to the EP ship construction and combat rules that people buy the SJG product "spaceships" that has a working set of rules for making spacecraft at various tech levels, and various movement and combat rules. It was used at a convention game I recently played and worked nicely enough. It can handle a variety of settings and the EP universe with it's relatively low tech spacecraft would be a breeze for it to do. So if you want/need a spaceship system for EP, try the spaceships mules modules from SJG. They're written for gurps but can be used for most any rpg system. On a better note if you want custom gear, weapons, etc,for EP try the "Stuff" rules for EABA. You can get a free sample of them at drivethrurpg.com that contains the weapons rules, allowing you to make a variety of weapons. The full book as rules for vehicles, devices, creatures and more. Yes it's for the EABA system but the devices can be adapted to most systems. So until/unless the powers that be at EP make gear and spacecraft rules don't fret too much. Just grab some substitutes and do a little hacking. ;)

—

"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." -Jesse "the mind" Ventura.

Wed, 2010-02-17 21:16

LordDamian LordDamian's picture

Re: Spaceship combat solution plus custom gear idea

Actually, i was going to suggest either STUFF! or their older products, 3g3 and The CORPS Vehicle Design System. All of which are crunchy and based on REAL SCIENCE (tm) to some extent. 3g3 even handles weapon design down to the cartridge level, and can handle energy and melee (and energy melee) weapons as well. the VDS is based on the CORPS system, unlike 3g3, but it all dovetails nicely. However, i would still recommend STUFF! for ease of use. you CAN build a baseline weapon or vehicle in play if necessary with it.

Thu, 2010-02-18 18:17

It that must no... It that must not be named's picture

Re: Spaceship combat solution plus custom gear idea

Well, as much as I'd like to recommend anything by BTRC over anything made by steve jackson (SPIT!) I must say that gurps spaceships has a dedicated spacecraft combat system to it that works fairly well. I do recommend BTRC's "Stuff!" for personal gear though.

—

"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." -Jesse "the mind" Ventura.

Thu, 2010-02-18 23:13

LordDamian LordDamian's picture

Re: Spaceship combat solution plus custom gear idea

the expanded vehicle combat system given in stuff {how do i blow it up, how do i use it, etc.) works pretty well. You could also use the old ICE system, i can't remember the game system though.

Thu, 2010-02-18 23:52

It that must no... It that must not be named's picture

Re: Spaceship combat solution plus custom gear idea

LordDamian wrote:
the expanded vehicle combat system given in stuff {how do i blow it up, how do i use it, etc.) works pretty well. You could also use the old ICE system, i can't remember the game system though.

Star Strike for spacecraft. Armored Assault for ground vehicles.

—

"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." -Jesse "the mind" Ventura.

Wed, 2010-03-10 18:26

jackgraham jackgraham's picture

Re: Spaceship combat solution plus custom gear idea

I'm trying to decide whether as a forum mod I need to ask you not to be so harsh on SJG, especially when you're recommending one of their products in the same post. Hmm... nah. ;) That said, I was a little uncomfortable with that post. I'm never going to censor anything said on here unless the poster is a spambot or a Nazi, but it's not so great for our cause if our forums develop a rep for trashing on other games or the companies that make them. Always better to take the high ground, right? Btw, thanks for your support in general; you've been an awesome forum participant.

—

J A C K G R A H A M :: Hooray for Earth! http://eclipsephase.com :: twitter @jackgraham @faketsr :: Google+Jack Graham

Thu, 2010-03-11 00:30

LordDamian LordDamian's picture

Re: Spaceship combat solution plus custom gear idea

aperently fires of heaven for EABA has space combat and space ship construction, and it meshes with STUFF! as well. so if you can build a working conversion, you gots some tools to work with. lord damian

Thu, 2010-03-11 01:10

It that must no... It that must not be named's picture

Re: Spaceship combat solution plus custom gear idea

Yes, FoH does have a serviceable spacecraft construction/combat system that could be ported to EP with no real effort. BTW, the creator of the 90 page ship combat/construction system, Greg Porter, does repeat some of the points raised by those objecting to spacecraft combat here: it's a good way to get characters killed wholesale. Still, in Ep character death isn't the bummer it can be in other games, so power up the weapons, energize EM armor panels, get me firing solutions on that incoming vessel and take us to defcon 4! PS Hey, btw I think the ship combat system in FoH is self contained and you may not need any other EABA stuff to run it, and FoH is only 17$ for a 90 page space combat game.

—

"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." -Jesse "the mind" Ventura.

Thu, 2010-03-11 01:06

It that must no... It that must not be named's picture

Re: Spaceship combat solution plus custom gear idea

jackgraham wrote:
I'm trying to decide whether as a forum mod I need to ask you not to be so harsh on SJG, especially when you're recommending one of their products in the same post. Hmm... nah. ;) That said, I was a little uncomfortable with that post. I'm never going to censor anything said on here unless the poster is a spambot or a Nazi, but it's not so great for our cause if our forums develop a rep for trashing on other games or the companies that make them. Always better to take the high ground, right? Btw, thanks for your support in general; you've been an awesome forum participant.

I'm not trashing SJG, I'm trashing the personal behavior of SJ and some of his people. It's kind of like saying I hate the director or star of a movie without saying the movie sucks. There are a lot of movies I like that have stas or directors I can't stand.

—

"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." -Jesse "the mind" Ventura.

Thu, 2010-03-11 01:45

#10

jackgraham jackgraham's picture

Re: Spaceship combat solution plus custom gear idea

It that must not be named wrote:
jackgraham wrote:
I'm trying to decide whether as a forum mod I need to ask you not to be so harsh on SJG, especially when you're recommending one of their products in the same post. Hmm... nah. ;) That said, I was a little uncomfortable with that post. I'm never going to censor anything said on here unless the poster is a spambot or a Nazi, but it's not so great for our cause if our forums develop a rep for trashing on other games or the companies that make them. Always better to take the high ground, right? Btw, thanks for your support in general; you've been an awesome forum participant.
I'm not trashing SJG, I'm trashing the personal behavior of SJ and some of his people. It's kind of like saying I hate the director or star of a movie without saying the movie sucks. There are a lot of movies I like that have stas or directors I can't stand.

Fair enough. The guy certainly has managed to make an amazing number of people dislike him over the years. Mostly, I'm sensitive to this because THS was/is a competing product. I just don't want anyone reading this forum to get the idea that we're out to bash on them, either directly or indirectly (i.e., through our fans bashing on Steve & his crew). I mean, maybe he's a douche, but dude designed fuckin' -Car Wars-, man. Maybe when I design a game that awesome that fits in a little black box in your ass pocket, I'll be more reckless. :)

—

J A C K G R A H A M :: Hooray for Earth! http://eclipsephase.com :: twitter @jackgraham @faketsr :: Google+Jack Graham

Wed, 2010-03-17 00:18

#11

It that must no... It that must not be named's picture

Re: Spaceship combat solution plus custom gear idea

jackgraham wrote:
It that must not be named wrote:
jackgraham wrote:
I'm trying to decide whether as a forum mod I need to ask you not to be so harsh on SJG, especially when you're recommending one of their products in the same post. Hmm... nah. ;) That said, I was a little uncomfortable with that post. I'm never going to censor anything said on here unless the poster is a spambot or a Nazi, but it's not so great for our cause if our forums develop a rep for trashing on other games or the companies that make them. Always better to take the high ground, right? Btw, thanks for your support in general; you've been an awesome forum participant.
I'm not trashing SJG, I'm trashing the personal behavior of SJ and some of his people. It's kind of like saying I hate the director or star of a movie without saying the movie sucks. There are a lot of movies I like that have stars or directors I can't stand.
Fair enough. The guy certainly has managed to make an amazing number of people dislike him over the years. Mostly, I'm sensitive to this because THS was/is a competing product. I just don't want anyone reading this forum to get the idea that we're out to bash on them, either directly or indirectly (i.e., through our fans bashing on Steve & his crew). I mean, maybe he's a douche, but dude designed fuckin' -Car Wars-, man. Maybe when I design a game that awesome that fits in a little black box in your ass pocket, I'll be more reckless. :)

Well, car wars was based on movies like "death race 2000" and demolition derbys. plus the title was just a take on star wars. (Amazing that lucas didn't sue.) The mechanics were not much different than the mechanics from a lot of microgames back then. And a guy can be talented and still a major asshole, especially if he becomes a success. As for gurps and ths in particular, I understand lord jackson has fairly little to do with those products. Sean Punch and Dave Pulver do a lot of the actual gurps writing, jackson doesn't even take questions on G4e rules and such. I won't name a name, but I was told by a guy who worked on THS that he ended up disliking jackson quite intensely based on his treatment of him when his work on THS was done. As to ths, it's a decent game setting but hard to write adventures for. EP seems easier to write games for and I hope it continues to exist.

—

"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." -Jesse "the mind" Ventura.

Sat, 2010-03-20 23:57

#12

It that must no... It that must not be named's picture

Re: Spaceship combat solution plus custom gear idea

jackgraham wrote:
Fair enough. The guy certainly has managed to make an amazing number of people dislike him over the years. Mostly, I'm sensitive to this because THS was/is a competing product. I just don't want anyone reading this forum to get the idea that we're out to bash on them, either directly or indirectly (i.e., through our fans bashing on Steve & his crew). I mean, maybe he's a douche, but dude designed fuckin' -Car Wars-, man. Maybe when I design a game that awesome that fits in a little black box in your ass pocket, I'll be more reckless. :)

BTW, in regards to lord jackson giving people reason to hate him and drop any products with his name on them, read this: http://mechgogo.livejournal.com/271290.html Foul language involved. Also, this could be called "How not to treat people who've spent 10 years helping your and your company. BTW, the source was that this guy is a liberal/socialist who was attacked by another guy at SJG who's a conservative, and anytime there's a disagreement between a conservative and a liberal at SJG. bet on the conservative to be declared the winner and the liberal to get screwed over.

—

"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." -Jesse "the mind" Ventura.

Sun, 2010-03-21 02:13

#13

Decivre

Re: Spaceship combat solution plus custom gear idea

It that must not be named wrote:
BTW, in regards to lord jackson giving people reason to hate him and drop any products with his name on them, read this: http://mechgogo.livejournal.com/271290.html Foul language involved. Also, this could be called "How not to treat people who've spent 10 years helping your and your company. BTW, the source was that this guy is a liberal/socialist who was attacked by another guy at SJG who's a conservative, and anytime there's a disagreement between a conservative and a liberal at SJG. bet on the conservative to be declared the winner and the liberal to get screwed over.

None of this points to SJ being a douche at all. If anything, it simply means that his company needs reform. We have no proof that this situation ever reached his desk, or that he was the one to drop the proverbial axe on this guy. All you might have proven is "the guy in management who works with the volunteers is a douche". If anything, I just think that SJ might have grown despondent with the industry. Roleplaying has gone through so many ups and downs in its short life that it'd be pretty easy to lose any desire to invest any real time in it. Hell, he got into the RPG industry six years after it was founded, and is one of the few people from that time who still owns the same business that existed back then. He's been in the game longer than most, and many of those that got in before him are now dead. It's been a long while since he's even worked on a game, and the last time I heard the only real thing he's done at conventions is continue to expand his chaos machine. I think its safe to say that his position in the company is largely executorial in nature, and his "douchebaggery" may actually be apathy.

—

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Sun, 2010-03-21 19:03

#14

It that must no... It that must not be named's picture

Re: Spaceship combat solution plus custom gear idea

Actually SJ has final say in matters like this, and SJG is such a small company even a weasel like him can't claim "I don;t know what happens here because my company is so big." The guy gave SJG 10 years, makes some personal political views, gets slandered by another MIB who is conservative, and then he gets the ax. If you look at the SJG forums, it's the people on the right who get away with anything while the lefties are either banned or "on notice". I consider that sort of thing to be douchism. I like it when people running forums let things be fair and balanced. As for personal douchism on jackson's part, check this out: http://www.starfrontiers.com/sorry.htm One of jackson's boys accused the people running the star frontiers site of piracy and called them bastards. Later after explaining they had the rights to release the star frontiers material as PDFs jackson referred to them as "weasels" and was generally insulting to them. When it was finally settled that the people had done nothing wrong and had had permission to do it all along, his lordship never even offered an apology. He also attacked the people at white wolf over the whole "gurps vampire" thing and made personal comments re someone at WW. The guy at ww refused to attack lord jackson in return, and simply asked people to compare his reputation to jackson's, because jackson has a well known rep for being arrogant and offensive.

—

"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." -Jesse "the mind" Ventura.

Sun, 2010-03-21 19:17

#15

Decivre

Re: Spaceship combat solution plus custom gear idea

It that must not be named wrote:
Actually SJ has final say in matters like this, and SJG is such a small company even a weasel like him can't claim "I don;t know what happens here because my company is so big." The guy gave SJG 10 years, makes some personal political views, gets slandered by another MIB who is conservative, and then he gets the ax. If you look at the SJG forums, it's the people on the right who get away with anything while the lefties are either banned or "on notice". I consider that sort of thing to be douchism. I like it when people running forums let things be fair and balanced. As for personal douchism on jackson's part, check this out: http://www.starfrontiers.com/sorry.htm One of jackson's boys accused the people running the star frontiers site of piracy and called them bastards. Later after explaining they had the rights to release the star frontiers material as PDFs jackson referred to them as "weasels" and was generally insulting to them. When it was finally settled that the people had done nothing wrong and had had permission to do it all along, his lordship never even offered an apology. He also attacked the people at white wolf over the whole "gurps vampire" thing and made personal comments re someone at WW. The guy at ww refused to attack lord jackson in return, and simply asked people to compare his reputation to jackson's, because jackson has a well known rep for being arrogant and offensive.

Moral of the story: Philip Reed is Steve Jackson, and anything the former says makes the latter a douche. I can understand the degree of hostility. Company's in the industry tend to work together to some degree, and they saw what looked to be a website which was pirating material for Star Frontiers. Moreover, they were never cleared of any piracy charges: rather, Wizards decided that since it was an inactive brand and they were taking good care of it, to allow them to continue their use of it. There is a significant difference. It looks like WotC never finished looking into how they got the rights in the first place, but rather decided it wasn't worth their time to do so. Maybe they should have deserved an apology. Maybe he is rude and arrogant. So are a lot of people. It's not an unforgivable act. All we can safely say is that he might be a belligerent codger, not the malevolent evil that previous posts seem to make him out to be.

—

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Sun, 2010-03-28 02:37

#16

Slith

Re: Spaceship combat solution plus custom gear idea

Attack Vector Tactical has some interesting rules and gameplay considerations for space combat, and it's VERY realistic. But it's also very crunchy, and designing your own spacecraft properly is effectively impossible since there are no construction rules. [IIRC, the game designer thinks it'd just cause more problems than it's worth because spacecraft construction involves calculus]

Tue, 2010-04-13 16:55

#17

Young Freud Young Freud's picture

Re: Spaceship combat solution plus custom gear idea

Slith wrote:
Attack Vector Tactical has some interesting rules and gameplay considerations for space combat, and it's VERY realistic. But it's also very crunchy, and designing your own spacecraft properly is effectively impossible since there are no construction rules. [IIRC, the game designer thinks it'd just cause more problems than it's worth because spacecraft construction involves calculus]

Funny you mention Attack Vector Tactical, because the first time I've heard of it was from Winchell Chung's [url=http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/index.html]Atomic Rocket[/url] page. Atomic Rocket is a doubly important reference if you're even contemplating realistic space combat, especially in EP. I think that [url=http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3at.html]this page from the site[/url] is pretty illuminating, which details common misconceptions to space travel and combat such as "no sound in space" and "space is three-dimensional" but others less common ones like as "rockets got wings" (not because of control surfaces, but as radiators to maintain heat equilbrium) and "no stealth in space" (because the open distances and inability to blend in with the background due to heat radiation).

Tue, 2010-04-13 19:38

#18

Decivre

Re: Spaceship combat solution plus custom gear idea

Young Freud wrote:
Funny you mention Attack Vector Tactical, because the first time I've heard of it was from Winchell Chung's [url=http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/index.html]Atomic Rocket[/url] page. Atomic Rocket is a doubly important reference if you're even contemplating realistic space combat, especially in EP. I think that [url=http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3at.html]this page from the site[/url] is pretty illuminating, which details common misconceptions to space travel and combat such as "no sound in space" and "space is three-dimensional" but others less common ones like as "rockets got wings" (not because of control surfaces, but as radiators to maintain heat equilbrium) and "no stealth in space" (because the open distances and inability to blend in with the background due to heat radiation).

I love that misconceptions page, because it brings up many key points that sci-fi glosses over. The alignment of seating on a ship (perpendicular to the engine is best, since that's situated to which way the inertial pull will go), and especially the need for radiators. All space ships, no matter how well designed for combat, will be very flimsy in design, and not as functional as a land, sea or air combat vehicle. Plus it addresses the key problem with space combat in Eclipse Phase: space combat is cheap, dirty and quick. It's not cinematic like movies would want us to believe. There is no sneaking up on a target, there is no real tactics. The one who can hit their target from several thousand kilometers away wins the battle, and it's very possible that both sides will "win" (and everyone dies). That's why it's simply best to avoid it as much as you can.

—

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]