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Shotgun weapons?

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Wed, 2009-12-30 03:24
#1
Young Freud Young Freud's picture
Shotgun weapons?
Looking through the Core rules, but it seems there's a significant lack of shotguns or shotgun-style weaponry, i.e. large-caliber, smoothbore firearms. Given that firearms have a large ammo selection to begin with, shotgun-style weapons have an even larger assortment, due to their larger bores (around 18mm to 23mm). Shotguns loaded with buckshot or birdshot would effective negate the "small target" advantages that Neotenics and Neoavians have. Birdshot would also likely disrupt Swamanoid morphs, since the individual swarmanoids lack the armor to stop a birdshot pellet. Shot would also be able to reliably hole vac suits, without puncturing the bulkhead of a spaceship. Slugs would be able to do significant damage to larger-sized morphs, with armor-piercing saboted slugs capable of penetrating most wearable combat armors. And that's not getting to their less-than-lethal applications. The traditional tube-fed pump or gas-operated shotgun would likely be present, if only for it's mix of old-school reliablity and capablity to switch shells on the fly, although multi-tube feeds like that found in the [url=http://www.truvelo.co.za/armoury/content/neostead-shotgun]Truvelo NeoStead[/url] might be more commonplace. Box magazine or drum fed shotguns would be seen more for automatic combat shotguns, where it would lose some flexiblity in favor for raw firepower. More intriguing would be electrically-fired shotguns like the [url=http://www.metalstorm.com/content/view/83/167/]Metal Storm MAUL[/url], where the whole mechanism is reduced to a spring-fed barrel preloaded with electrically-primed shells, allowing for lightweight pistol configurations or more commonplace underbarrel attachments. Multibarrel successors to the MAUL would likely replace conventional autoshotguns. In short, shotguns have a tactical flexiblity versus many of the transhuman threats present in EP that I'm surprised to see they didn't make the Core book. So, why didn't they make it and what would be the rules for them?
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Wed, 2010-01-06 02:51
Young Freud Young Freud's picture
Re: Shotgun weapons?
Bumping my own thread here, but I've read through the rules and Spray Weapons, like the Shredder, fulfill the scattergun role, but I find it weird that sprayguns don't make things easier to hit as the spray dispates and becomes larger. I would think that they would get a 10% modifier at medium and 20% at long range, either as a bonus to hit or a penalty to dodge with Fray, to make up for the damage reduction at long range. Neither does autofire, which is puzzling, since either allows you to target two or more opponents or do extra damage to a single target. I remember Shadowrun, which has some similarities with EP rules-wise, gives fairly simple options for wide bursts to catch a target or narrow bursts to pound a target with multiple bullets. I can imagine EP can rig up something similar.
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Sun, 2010-04-04 04:59
UpliftedOctopi UpliftedOctopi's picture
Re: Shotgun weapons?
relevant to my interests... bump
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Thu, 2010-10-28 20:18
marcoasalazarm marcoasalazarm's picture
Re: Shotgun weapons?
This touches on an actually good point. Why did shotguns got left out? I mean, I suppose that in the time that gets to the Fall and beyond, the availability of Spray Weapons and the large number of alternate bullet types for standard rifles and pistols make the shotgun slightly obsolete, but they are still of some worth. Especially during things like riots and target-rich environments where you want to make little collateral damage (to things. People are a different thing).
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Thu, 2010-10-28 22:48
Zen Shooter Zen Shooter's picture
Re: Shotgun weapons?
The shredder obsoletes the shotgun, I think.
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Thu, 2010-10-28 23:17
puke puke's picture
Re: Shotgun weapons?
indeed, but its not just about the shredder/spraygun idea. the OP has a really good point on smooth-bore multi-ammunition weapons. shotguns can be loaded not just with slugs and shot, but everything from spikes to chains to flares to beanbags to angry bees. the variety of loads includes things like flares, battons, HE explosive (fragmentation), AP explosive (shaped charge), phospherous (flame thrower), sabots, and airborne cameras! and thats just whats available today. in essence, a 40mm grenade launcher is the same thing: a smooth bore multi-role weapon. it can carry shot, HE, smoke, air-timed explosives, whatever. When I first read the weapon list, I was lamenting the lack of a smooth-bore "multi-cannon" type weapon that might carry all sorts of munitions depending on what you needed at the moment. equally usefull for riot suppression, low-velocity use to protect hull integrety, smart rounds, limpets, HEAP, nano-desintegrators, whatever. I guess you could concoct some custom loads for micro-launchers, or even large-bore railguns reasoning that the payload is being fired on a sled between the rails or something. but something along this general idea is definitly something that should get tossed into a later book. maybe gatecrashing.
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Fri, 2010-10-29 13:28
Rhyx Rhyx's picture
Re: Shotgun weapons?
Quote:
indeed, but its not just about the shredder/spraygun idea. the OP has a really good point on smooth-bore multi-ammunition weapons. shotguns can be loaded not just with slugs and shot, but everything from spikes to chains to flares to beanbags to angry bees.
The way I see it with the sheer amount of different ammo there should really be a kind of catapult or universal launcher. I find that the idea goes well with open source weaponry especially with things like smart magazines why wouldn't you want a gun that shoots any kind of ammo available. Of course these weapons would be the bottom of an ever expanding tree of more and more specialized launchers (think Linux vs Gnome Vs Obuntu Linux is at the core but the others cater to more specialized needs.) But I think there should be a baseline chemical/pressure/magnetic launcher. Ultimately all you'd have to do is get an adjustable bore railgun with a rangefinder across the breach to determine the caliber size of the object put in. You just need to put some kind of ferromagnetic element in the ammo to determine the exit velocity and all of a sudden you have a railgun that shoots out nerf balls at exactly the speed you want them to go.
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Fri, 2010-10-29 13:43
Zen Shooter Zen Shooter's picture
Re: Shotgun weapons?
Seeker weapons are your multi-munition launcher.
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Fri, 2010-10-29 14:10
Rhyx Rhyx's picture
Re: Shotgun weapons?
Hmm it does seem to have a little something for everything doesn't it? I was gonna say that seekers aren't that great for riot control and then took a peek at the overload rounds...food for thought. All we would need is a seeker canister that mimics Freezer ammo.
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Fri, 2010-10-29 14:38
750 750's picture
Re: Shotgun weapons?
Something like a splash seeker filled with freezer fluid? Not sure, but could it be that one splash round can hold one round of freezer? Or where you thinking more like a special round that makes a seeker weapon behave like a one shot spray weapon?
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Fri, 2010-10-29 15:19
puke puke's picture
Re: Shotgun weapons?
indeed, seeker launchers cover it pretty well, but the ideas i had in mind were for dumb projectiles. What i had been thinking of was something you could easily break out on a table, where you could have light, medium, and heavy multi-cannons (stole the phrase from schlock mercenary) and the various warheads would have different damages depending on if you were using a 15mm (slightly bigger than 12gauge) 30mm (between the new 25mm and old 40mm grenades) or 60mm (in the future, your morph will be able to shoulder fire an m224, right?) round. Then you could have a range table for each type of launcher, possilby with a short barrel varient of each. so [i]n[/i] variety of round, [i]n[/i]*3 damage values, and 3*2 (long barrel and short barrel) range bands. it starts to get really hairy when you're talking about seekers and self-propelled rounds, though. each seeker will have a different range band. its accuracy might increase over range, instead of decreasing. it might be AI controlled. how much warhead or payload do you sacrifice for propellant? does your armor penetration increase up to optimal range, and then decrease out to the edge of the effective range? how much role does internal vs external ballistics play? how do i abstract it to be simple and playable? The last question is probably the most significant. how do you keep it fast and easy while still delivering a credible and satisfying level of gun porn? lets not lie, gamers tend to like their gun porn.
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Fri, 2010-10-29 15:29
marcoasalazarm marcoasalazarm's picture
Re: Shotgun weapons?
Zen Shooter wrote:
Seeker weapons are your multi-munition launcher.
Shotguns might still be around because of the fact that they are cheaper to use when the munition is point-and-shoot and not requiring to track the target down. Also easier to maintain in a battlefield (seeker tracking systems, designators and whatnot... well, I might be thinking in a way different from 'transhuman', but *that* sounds to me like requiring a thorough period that might not be possible in a combat-heavy tour). Which means that some (if not all) factions, like the Venusians, would still have use for them.
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Sat, 2010-10-30 12:32
King Shere King Shere's picture
Re: Shotgun weapons?
"Primitive" weapons isn't in the core book either, like crossbows or slings. But one idea, is that gunpowder, and many "easy" explosives & other hazards have been routed & censored out for public safety. Society perhaps went to great length and saturated everything with Nano-machines to make materials less explosive. Perhaps this "censorship" occurred prior to the fall, cracking down on the "easy" terrorism methods of using Household items. This would also give some extra safety for space habitats. Also 95% of the population have died -some fundamental knowledge might have been lost. Especially if it was actively suppressed. A society that somehow suppressed explosives would also justify the the core rules for explosives. At "Making explosives" under demolition (page 197), rules states that it takes 1 hour per 1d10 of damage . Guns seem to do 2d10, and many weapons seem to have a average damage between 10 and 20. So in order to do a explosive that does equal damage to a gun, roughly two hours of work is needed... In contrast, a explosive expert (even less competent than that) of our time can craft a device capable of mass killing -in mere minutes. Also its said explosives are made from raw materials either gathered "the traditional way" or manufactured with a nano-fabricator. What does this say about the occurrence of bombs or ammo made in "untraditional ways"? If one needs to painstakingly remove and check for nano-machines in materials, Or monitor the manufacture of raw materials, the hours of work would be better justified.
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