Scrappers Gel Question | Eclipse Phase

Fri, 2014-07-25 01:22

#2

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture

Jason: Get ye a copy of the

Jason: Get ye a copy of the first, unaired episode of Firefly, the Pilot episode. The very first scenes are of the crew of Serenity using Scrapper's Gel to melt their way into a ship. Basically, just draw a line in the hull in scrapper's gel, it comes out like hot glue from a hot glue gun. Then light it up and stand clear in case there's still atmo in that motherhumper. You probably wouldn't be injured by a flying plate of hullmetal, but why risk flying off into the black?

—

Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name. [url=http://tinyurl.com/mfcapss]My EP Character Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/lbpsb93]Thread for my Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/obu5adp]The Five Orange Pips[/url]

Fri, 2014-07-25 11:22

#3

jasonbrisbane jasonbrisbane's picture

Thanks for assisting me...

Thanks for assisting me... but that really doesnt answer the question. I have seen that and they place the gel around the hatch and then ignite/chage it and it heats and melts. Was that one "unit"? Two? Half, Four? Thats the information Im after... Anyone got any ideas what the Units of scrapers gel were designed to cover/melt?

—

Regards, Jason Brisbane

Fri, 2014-07-25 12:22

#4

Shunka

There really isn't any

There really isn't any guideline I can recall seeing. When I gamemaster, it's basically a plot unit. Which is to say, it's either enough to do the job (let's face it, who buys something meant to cut hullmetal in milliliter quantities?) or not enough to do the job. If the players want to make a hatch in something, or cut a similiar sized chunk off something, one unit is enough in my book. If they want to use it to dissolve a Mars-rover to such an extent that someone would have to do a lot of work to determine what got melted down, then they'll need to plan ahead and bring 'many' units. In short, most of the time I'm not going to hold the party back because they brought 1 therblig, not 2. :) But if they're planning ahead of time to do something big, I'll expect them to bring quantity based on their own best judgement. Sometimes you just have to wing it. "How much of a unit of scrapper's gel would it take to melt halfway through one of the cables on the suspension bridge?" "Not very much." "Okay, good, we do all of them." "Whoa there. Just because the amount to do one won't deplete your stocks doesn't mean the amount to do five hundred won't. You may end up having to weaken some of them the hard way. You brought tools, right?" This is one of those things like 'what color is the wiring inside a typical fuzing mechanism? (as if there were a 'typical fuzing mechanism' outside of certain highly specific implementations)' It doesn't matter, unless it's relevant to the plot, and in that case you make a judgement call. :)

Fri, 2014-07-25 12:44

#5

branford

Who only brings one "therblig

Who only brings one "therblig"? It's only ten years after an apocalypse, and you're a Firewall agent. Anythings less than five therblig's is suicide. :p The authors did a great job extrapolating current and theoretical technological trends and creating a rich and diverse setting with ample toys. However, unlike many other "crunchy" games, there is little guidance as to equipment size, weight and operation. In another thread, I, too, had a equipment question that had no discernible answer. I wanted to know the basic propulsion mechanism for shard pistols and shredders for purposes of stealth (electromagnetic, chemical, etc.). I soon realized that in EP you just have to rely on common sense and GM fiat to fill in the equipment unknowns. You'll never get a definitive answer as to what a single "unit" of scappers gel can do, or even how many units come for a given price. Unless it's a major plot issue, and as long as you paid the price (or stole it fair and square), you should have "enough."

Fri, 2014-07-25 13:42

#6

Shunka

branford wrote:Who only

branford wrote:
Who only brings one "therblig"?

In theory, if your party has sufficient whatsamajiggers, having a single therblig really isn't that big a weakness in terms of your equipment loadout and flexibility. On the other hand I must insist that anyone with fewer than six thingamabobs simply is not prepared!

Fri, 2014-07-25 18:43

#7

Smokeskin

How thick a layer would you

How thick a layer would you have to apply? Is the line 3x3 cm? A 2x2 m hole would then be 8m x 3cm x 3cm = 7.2 litres.

Fri, 2014-07-25 20:39

#8

Shunka

Smokeskin wrote:How thick a

Smokeskin wrote:
How thick a layer would you have to apply? Is the line 3x3 cm? A 2x2 m hole would then be 8m x 3cm x 3cm = 7.2 litres.

This is exactly the sort of thing which I feel shouldn't bite the players. Most GMs I've met in my life are not going to come back on a 'we use the gel' request with 'you're 10cm of distance short of being able to cut the necessary-sized hole,' they're simply going to come back with 'you really can't do that with the tools you listed at hand, unless someone has more gel.'

Fri, 2014-07-25 20:49

#9

TheGrue

Something I've always liked

Something I've always liked about Eclipse Phase is that it's more narrative focused than some other RPG systems. One of the effects of that is the question that started this thread. And, I tend to agree with Shunka; you either have enough or you don't.

—

Thermonuclear Banana Split - A not-really-weekly Eclipse Phase campaign journal.

Fri, 2014-07-25 20:55

#10

ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture

the gm should keep track of

the gm should keep track of if they have used a consumable without having the chance to restock though

Fri, 2014-07-25 21:03

#11

TheGrue

But that's kind of the issue:

But that's kind of the issue: how much scrapper's gel is needed to "use it up"? The game doesn't track, so the only way the GM has of saying "You're out of scrapper's gel" is asking themselves "Do I want the players to be able to use their scrapper's gel anymore?" And, as I indicated in my earlier post, the answer to that question should mainly be a narrative consideration.

—

Thermonuclear Banana Split - A not-really-weekly Eclipse Phase campaign journal.

Fri, 2014-07-25 21:07

#12

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture

I would say that one Low-cost

I would say that one Low-cost purchase of Scrapper's Gel will give you one "major" use or as many as ten minor uses. Cutting into a ship's hull? Major use. Dabbing some on a cable which you expect someone hostile to you to attempt to zipline down shortly? Minor use.

—

Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name. [url=http://tinyurl.com/mfcapss]My EP Character Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/lbpsb93]Thread for my Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/obu5adp]The Five Orange Pips[/url]

Fri, 2014-07-25 21:13

#13

GenUGenics GenUGenics's picture

Seems like a useful dose

Seems like a useful dose should be able to dissolve something man-sized, like a hatch. Let that be your guide.

Fri, 2014-07-25 22:26

#14

Smokeskin

Shunka wrote:Smokeskin wrote

Shunka wrote:
Smokeskin wrote:
How thick a layer would you have to apply? Is the line 3x3 cm? A 2x2 m hole would then be 8m x 3cm x 3cm = 7.2 litres.
This is exactly the sort of thing which I feel shouldn't bite the players. Most GMs I've met in my life are not going to come back on a 'we use the gel' request with 'you're 10cm of distance short of being able to cut the necessary-sized hole,' they're simply going to come back with 'you really can't do that with the tools you listed at hand, unless someone has more gel.'

I see this more as GM preparing for the scenario so he knows how big the hole, line and gel tank have to be. If he decides that the player characters bring enough, that's a different matter that has nothing to do with the accuracy of the numbers.

Fri, 2014-07-25 22:41

#15

Shunka

Smokeskin wrote:Shunka wrote

Smokeskin wrote:
Shunka wrote:
Smokeskin wrote:
How thick a layer would you have to apply? Is the line 3x3 cm? A 2x2 m hole would then be 8m x 3cm x 3cm = 7.2 litres.
This is exactly the sort of thing which I feel shouldn't bite the players. Most GMs I've met in my life are not going to come back on a 'we use the gel' request with 'you're 10cm of distance short of being able to cut the necessary-sized hole,' they're simply going to come back with 'you really can't do that with the tools you listed at hand, unless someone has more gel.'
I see this more as GM preparing for the scenario so he knows how big the hole, line and gel tank have to be. If he decides that the player characters bring enough, that's a different matter that has nothing to do with the accuracy of the numbers.

Then your scenario prep consists of 'It will take 2 units of scrapper's gel to do X. If the players have fewer than this they will have to find a way around/some other way to destroy the obstacle.'

Fri, 2014-07-25 23:38

#16

Smokeskin

The way I like to do these

The way I like to do these things: if I have to decide these things on the fly, I'm just going to wing it. Nobody likes the GM doing math while they twiddle their thumbs. I like to go with whatever makes for the most interesting story - interesting stories are also at least justifiably realistic so that plays a part, but I'm willing to stretch it. If I have the option to plan things in advance, I'm often going to estimate some numbers just for the added realism, and I'm going to make sure they have enough if they should be able to get through. A character knows how much they will need, or they bring too little but there's a structural weakness that will break along a line and let them make a large enough hole, or something like that. Asking them "how many litres do you bring?" and then on the mission going "sorry my numbers say that's not enough", I don't do that :)

Sat, 2014-07-26 08:10

#17

Jaberwo

Can be fun though if your GM

Can be fun though if your GM is good at math. Best EP moment so far was a ride through the TQZ on a mars buggy with TITAN biodrones running after us coming closer every second. The GM looked at the average damage, the amount of enemies how many shots we would miss based on our skills and described how our ammunition ran lower and lower how much difficulty we had when we switched to untrained weapons and how the beasts came closer and closer.. It was incredibly thrilling because we didn't know the outcome but we knew that our GM wasn't arbitrarily deciding if we would survive or not. Hard cold facts and math would decide that. It went perfectly with the EP theme of "you die if you die, no mercy" because you can do everything with your players, thanks to resleeving. When we survived by two clips of ammo and badly wounded after killing more than 100 TITAN abominations it was not a hollywood style showdown where the good guys win, but it was real and it was fucking close.

Sat, 2014-07-26 09:15

#18

Smokeskin

It's fun if you win, but if

It's fun if you win, but if you lose, it might not be. I must admit that I've let it seem that I was playing fair, but in reality had a backup plan for if the dice came out wrong. In theory, I like it that the players feel like there's a risk of failing, but in practice it often sucks to experience losing.