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? Schorchers ?

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Wed, 2011-12-07 22:54
#1
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
? Schorchers ?
So I'm wondering about Scorcher Programs (P332) they're supposed to be used to attack egos in cyberbrains (p. 261) but I'm wondering if that means *only* cyberbrains or could they effect egos running on different hardware. For instance; could a scorcher effect an infomorph riding in a Ghostrider module, or could they effect an AGI running on a serve,r or could they be used to attack a Muse running on an ecto or mesh inserts? If no: Why? And, is there another way to attack an infomorph ego on a server? If Yes: would the -30 cyberbrain hacking modifier still apply? Also; what do you suppose the effects of the different scorcher programs would be in certain situations? The stress damage scorchers, Bedlam and Nightmare, are easy they would work as advertised because all ego's have Lucidity. I'm wondering what the effect of Cauterizer would be as it somehow does some type of physical damage to a cyber brain. If Cauterizer were deployed against an ego running on mesh inserts or a server would it damage the hardware in some way or do corrupting damage to the ego's software? I'm not sure how I would handle this as there are no DUR or TT stats for the harware or the informorph. Anyhow, I'm just wondering what you think about it.
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Thu, 2011-12-08 12:01
Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
Re: ? Schorchers ?
Scorchers work on infomorphs, they do not take the penalty. Cauterizers do not because they are specifically designed to damage cyberbrain architecture.
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Mon, 2011-12-12 13:46
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: ? Schorchers ?
Axel the Chimeric wrote:
Scorchers work on infomorphs, they do not take the penalty. Cauterizers do not because they are specifically designed to damage cyberbrain architecture.
I don't know about that. It seems to be that cauterizers simply simulate neurological damage, which causes the synthmorph to be hobbled because the ego's connection to it is malfunctioning. I personally would allow it, but note that because an infomorph has no physical body, the cauterizer can only cause simulated neurological damage, and nothing real. I would allow wound penalties for accrued "damage", but alleviating the damage would be as simple as rebooting the infomorph.
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Mon, 2011-12-12 16:03
Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
Re: ? Schorchers ?
Right, my bad. I didn't have my book ready at the time I wrote that post. I thought cauterizers were ones that specifically did damage to a cyberbrain. Yeah, cauterizers definitely affect infomorphs.
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Mon, 2011-12-12 19:02
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
Re: ? Schorchers ?
Decivre wrote:
...I personally would allow it, but note that because an infomorph has no physical body, the cauterizer can only cause simulated neurological damage, and nothing real. I would allow wound penalties for accrued "damage", but alleviating the damage would be as simple as rebooting the infomorph.
OK I like that idea. I think my mind reverted back to old school shadowrun when I was thinking about damaging hardware. Probably it would work the same for a Muse. You could just reboot the muse to erase all SV and DV. Rebooting would be effectively the same as dying and being reinstantiated right?
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Mon, 2011-12-12 19:08
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: ? Schorchers ?
OneTrikPony wrote:
OK I like that idea. I think my mind reverted back to old school shadowrun when I was thinking about damaging hardware. Probably it would work the same for a Muse. You could just reboot the muse to erase all SV and DV. Rebooting would be effectively the same as dying and being reinstantiated right?
Not SV. SV is ego damage that stays with the ego despite any attempts to reboot. It's best not to think of SV as damage per se, but mental stress and quirks. Being rebooted doesn't change the fact that you're hearing voices in your head.
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Wed, 2011-12-14 07:56
Xagroth Xagroth's picture
Re: ? Schorchers ?
Nope, Rebooting cannot be the same as dying, because it is very likely that a morph has to "boot" itself when he changes from a server to another (something that can happen a lot while moving around an habitat). Rebooting could be similar to getting asleep for a moment in the classroom, I think. You suddenly wake up and that's it. Of course, when you have been captured and they are torturing you, they can block the reboot option.
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Wed, 2011-12-14 14:22
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
Re: ? Schorchers ?
Hmmm... Do infomorphs jump from server to server? Why? I've been under the impression that an infomorph needed dedicated hardware with a Simulspace to exist.
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Wed, 2011-12-14 14:38
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: ? Schorchers ?
OneTrikPony wrote:
Hmmm... Do infomorphs jump from server to server? Why? I've been under the impression that an infomorph needed dedicated hardware with a Simulspace to exist.
Yes to dedicated hardware, no to simulspace. A simulmorph requires simulspace to exist, but that's because a simulmorph doesn't exist outside of simulspace. An infomorph is, in effect, a mind emulation ran on any computer powerful enough (ectos and mesh inserts have enough power). They are the equivalent of bodiless cyberbrains.
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Wed, 2011-12-14 16:30
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
Re: ? Schorchers ?
"Simulmorph" Thanks forgot that distinction. As an aside; buying a simulmorph and Simulspace time is probably one of the ways your indentures are kept poor, (over in the average joe thread) I never thought about the implications of being conscious without a simulspace surround and having no simulmorph. Good God; That would Sux! No wonder everyone wants to get a morph even if it's a Case. That's worse than the description in Sunward of the guy who was trying to buy his own Genetics so he could get rid of the planned obsolescence trait on his ruster.
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Wed, 2011-12-14 17:18
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: ? Schorchers ?
OneTrikPony wrote:
"Simulmorph" Thanks forgot that distinction. As an aside; buying a simulmorph and Simulspace time is probably one of the ways your indentures are kept poor, (over in the average joe thread) I never thought about the implications of being conscious without a simulspace surround and having no simulmorph. Good God; That would Sux! No wonder everyone wants to get a morph even if it's a Case. That's worse than the description in Sunward of the guy who was trying to buy his own Genetics so he could get rid of the planned obsolescence trait on his ruster.
Some people don't mind being infomorphs. Infomorph form is the natural form for an AGI, so they often feel right at home when sleeved in an ecto, or on some server somewhere. Plus, there are probably a few people who don't really care for physicality and whatnot. I imagine that a lot of people who are asexual have no qualms with losing their bodies, especially if they are the sort that spend half their time surfing the mesh anyways. Now, they get to be on the mesh 24/7!
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Wed, 2011-12-14 17:49
Decimator Decimator's picture
Re: ? Schorchers ?
Given the AR environment on most habitats, is there really any reason an infomorph couldn't run a program that provides them with simulated tactile feedback and projects them into others' AR?
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Wed, 2011-12-14 17:57
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: ? Schorchers ?
Decimator wrote:
Given the AR environment on most habitats, is there really any reason an infomorph couldn't run a program that provides them with simulated tactile feedback and projects them into others' AR?
AR projection could likely be done to anyone that had that infomorph's system listed as a trusted source. For instance, if I had a ghostrider module on with an ego in it and allowed them access to my inserts, they would most likely be capable of transmitting an AR avatar for me to visualize them. Simulated tactile feedback might be possible, but would be limited in nature. It would be pure AR illusion, manufactured by the interface. Having sex with an infomorph's AR avatar would require a lot of software programming to coordinate, and probably make for a weird and unsatisfying experience... but yeah, it's doable (pun intended).
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Wed, 2011-12-14 21:06
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
Re: ? Schorchers ?
I think that to avoid sensory deprivation (can a software mind suffer from sensory deprivation?) Infomorphs would routinely access as much of the local surveillance data as possible, AR projected by others would definitely help too. As an infomorph I wouldn't be caught dead without an avatar.
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Wed, 2011-12-14 21:16
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: ? Schorchers ?
OneTrikPony wrote:
I think that to avoid sensory deprivation (can a software mind suffer from sensory deprivation?) Infomorphs would routinely access as much of the local surveillance data as possible, AR projected by others would definitely help too. As an infomorph I wouldn't be caught dead without an avatar.
Even without the need for sensor feeds, an infomorph can always "see". It's just that what he sees is a constant feed from the mesh. Imagine if you had a computer screen that completely filled your vision and moved with your head, and you might get a loose idea. Now take away the ability to move your head and your set; that's basically what an infomorph is. A brain emulation with a constant computer interface. Your vision is essentially all visual data you get fed from the mesh. You might even "hear", "smell" and "touch" any audio, olfactory and tactile data you receive. It's not the same as true senses, but it's something. Infomorphs aren't just brains in a jar. They're brains in a jar with internet access. :P
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Thu, 2011-12-15 08:21
Xagroth Xagroth's picture
Re: ? Schorchers ?
Decimator wrote:
Given the AR environment on most habitats, is there really any reason an infomorph couldn't run a program that provides them with simulated tactile feedback and projects them into others' AR?
Only processing power and the desires of the owners of the system (this is mostly for the indentured infomorphs). Imagine if you can fit 10 egos in the equivalent of 9 ectos by depriving them from simulated data (assuming they can work like that, of course). Then consider that you have about 1.000.000 egos as indenturees in that habitat, and realise you just saved the equivalent to 100.000 ectos (which is about 25.000.000 credits). Small savings when talking about extreme amounts of items become great savings rather quickly... Now for the "pure" preception an infomorph might have, I think the most easy analogy would be the Matrix' "source code" the operators see in their screens.
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Thu, 2011-12-15 15:36
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: ? Schorchers ?
Xagroth wrote:
Now for the "pure" preception an infomorph might have, I think the most easy analogy would be the Matrix' "source code" the operators see in their screens.
No way. The Matrix was absolutely ridiculous for the idea that a person could understand random runes floating down a screen. It might have been interesting, but it was gimmicky. Infomorphs probably see the same thing any person does when they "fullscreen" their mesh insert interfaces.
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Thu, 2011-12-15 16:33
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
Re: ? Schorchers ?
I'm with decivre on the matrix vision thing. The mind of an infomorph is the software emulation of an actual brain; a map of it's neuronal connections, their relative strengths and potentials, and real-time working model of the soup of hormones that makes it all run. (Which is why I believe that Scorchers would work on an infomorph mind as well as a mind sleeved in a cyberbrain.) This means that an infomorph brain would percieve and comprehend in the same ways a physical brain does. AR would look, sound, smell, feel and respond the same way for both types of mind hardware. On the flip side; the whole universe probably looks like math and machine code to radical AI paradigms (promethians/TITANS) that are not based on the human brain structure.
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Thu, 2011-12-15 22:52
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: ? Schorchers ?
OneTrikPony wrote:
On the flip side; the whole universe probably looks like math and machine code to radical AI paradigms (promethians/TITANS) that are not based on the human brain structure.
They probably "sense" reality in a manner that we cannot even yet fathom.
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