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Ranged attack modifier: hidden?

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Azathoth Azathoth's picture
Ranged attack modifier: hidden?
Hi, new to the game and have some questions! :) Mostly, I'd like to know what is intended by the hidden modifier on the combat modifiers table. I always assumed if you beat your opponent in an Infiltration vs Perception check, they have not noticed you and therefore couldn't target you. So I was thinking hidden may mean concealed or obscured, but it seems like a high modifier compared to cover. Then I thought maybe if you failed your perception vs infiltration and tried to shoot a hiding target anyway, then you may apply the hidden modifier. But then it seems sorta high compared to blinded! :P So how do you guys interpret any of what I said? Or am I just spouting gibberish? :P Thanks!
nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
Re: Ranged attack modifier: hidden?
My understanding is that the defender is entirely concealed, so that modifier is for blind fire, like firing through a closed door or in pitch black. It would be reasonable if say you are walking blind through a warehouse that you need to roll your perception check to know approximately where the bad guy is, then suffer the -60 penalty to hit him. Alternatively, if you're coming up on a door which the GM has secretly stationed a bad guy behind, the PC can fire through the door without passing the perception check, and still suffer the -60 penalty, but possibly hit.
Yerameyahu Yerameyahu's picture
Re: Ranged attack modifier: hidden?
Yeah, it's pretty high and odd, but I think it is indeed for firing when you have no idea where they are—but you do know they're somewhere. Blind fire and cover fire, on the other hand, mean you do know more or less precisely where they are; you're merely impeded.
Azathoth Azathoth's picture
Re: Ranged attack modifier: hidden?
Ok, that seems pretty reasonable. I guess I had been assuming those situations would be the same as blind firing. Thanks a lot!
BOMherren BOMherren's picture
Re: Ranged attack modifier: hidden?
Yerameyahu wrote:
Yeah, it's pretty high and odd, but I think it is indeed for firing when you have no idea where they are—but you do know they're somewhere. Blind fire and cover fire, on the other hand, mean you do know more or less precisely where they are; you're merely impeded.
How much more impeded can your target acquisition get, than by complete blindness? Not knowing exactly which object your target is hiding behind seems trivial, compared to the complete inability to perceive your surroundings. Although that said, maybe "blind" means that you cannot use sight to target your enemy (but still can use some alternative, less precise means, like enhanced olfactory senses, echolocation or PSI), whereas "hidden" means just taking a wild shot on someone whose location you can only guess.
Yerameyahu Yerameyahu's picture
Re: Ranged attack modifier: hidden?
I assume Blind doesn't also mean 'deaf', etc., yes.