Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

Tue, 2010-09-21 08:14

#2

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

OneTrikPony wrote:
In reverse engineering the Lunar Ego Hunter I see that it's got Psi (level 2) but it's got 3 mental disorders. How does that work out?

Maybe some people are naturally crazy?

Quote:
If the ego is infected with a digital virus wouldn't that mean that the morph will be infected also when the ego is writen into the brain state?

The description of the virus says it is contagious for just 24 hours after infection, so presumably an infected ego doesn't infect the morph... except that could be wrong. After all, it makes for a great creepy revelation that the cheap morph you bought for a quick job is infected with something exsurgent - and who said all strains of Watts-MacLeod play nice?

Quote:
If an ego gets psycho surgury that effect is writen into the morphs brain. So, could a morph be built with the Modified Behaviour trait? For instance. Skinthetic could build a morph with; Planned Obsolescence and Modified Behaviour; Encouraged; Brand Loyalty to Skinthetic. IF; it were posible to pre-install psycosurgury effects in a morph would those carry on in the Ego when the morph Resleeves?

I doubt it would work that way, assuming everything goes by the book. Psychosurgery is about editing the neural network of an ego, which is then instantiated in the brain of the morph. But it seems quite plausible that a morph with a flawed brain would produce a resulting ego that has the same flaw - if it for some reason lacks the hippocampus memory consolidation will not work, despite it being fine in the original software ego. And uploading the resulting ego with a egobridge will of course not remove the hole - it will now have neural damage. This suggests an interesting negative trait: Morph Brain Damage (+20 CP, includes 10 cp for the neural damage) The morph brain is damaged in such a way that any ego implemented in it will suffer a particular type of neural damage. Since uploading faithfully reproduces the brain state, any uploaded version of the ego from the morph will retain this damage. Obviously selling such morphs are against medical safety and consumer laws in all normal habitats, but unscrupulous bodytraders may pass them off to unsuspecting or desperate customers. I think it is unlikely Skinthetic would want to put the modified behaviour into the morph, because it might make them legally liable for the behaviour ("My client is a freelance morph reviewer, and now has been involuntarily imprinted with a trait that calls his professional neutrality - indeed his ability to act voluntarily - into doubt. I am asking for punitive damages, in addition to compensation for loss of future earnings, psychological trauma and damage to reputation. I ask the court to note that this polity has very clear anti-slavery and anti-brainwashing laws...") There is also the problem of fine-tuning the psychosurgery: I think hardwired brain patterns mainly work on very simple modifications, while to achieve a modified behaviour you need something actually performing a psychosurgery test. A morph that automatically feels disgust proportional to the amount of aggression in the lateral hypothalamus, OK. A morph with nicotine addiction, OK. Not a morph that manages to tie together a brand symbol with loyalty, rather tricky. But again, just because it is a bad idea doesn't mean somebody is not going to try. Sounds like another version of the bad morph above. This is why my players prefer synthmorphs and cleanly cloned morphs.

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Tue, 2010-09-21 08:42

#3

CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

OK, 1) Lost Background - When you take the Lost Background you start with Psi(1), but you have two Disorders. One of those Disorders is from the Psi(1), the other one is from being one of the Lost. The Lunar Hunter has an extra disorder because he bought Psi(2), which incidentally only cost him the difference between Psi(1) and Psi(2), which I think is 5CP, but I am away from my books. 2) The Watts-McLeod strain infects the Ego. *SPOILERS* The Watts-McLeod strain is weird in that, for some reason, it does not seem to effect the Morph that all, at least not after it has gone about screwing with the Ego (Which remember is just a brain state, there is nothing special about it). And what is weirder about the Watts-Mcleod is that after it has done its thing it completly disappears. Any of the nano-bots that the virus depends on to infect its target and others seem to either die off or go into super stealth mode. So when a Psi infected Ego is placed into a new Morph its brain is somehow configured into such a state that it is now capable of Psi powers. That is something that EP science does not understand, but that seems to be how it us. When the Morph is then wiped when the Ego leaves the Morph, ready for someone new to take up residence, its ability to use Psi goes with it. 3) It becomes part of the Egos written brain state, not the Morphs. When the Ego then leaves that body the Morphs brain state is wiped to neutral in prep for the next person to use it. For some reason or other (i.e they are designed to do so) a Morphs brain is conditioned to have as little an affect on a persons behaviour as possible, and so to stop bleed over from old users anything that could even possibly remain from a Morphs old owner must be removed from the brain. However, if you want to have modified behaviour as a Morph trait/implant it is quite easy to do so. You just need to make up a new trait/implant to do so. I did this in one my my custom morphs (The prison Blank) using: Induced Modified Behaviour (Morph Trait) This trait was designed to allow Morph creators the ability to control an Egos behaviour while inhabiting a Morph. It follows the same CP Cost as the similar Ego trait. See page (150 CORE) as reference.

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Tue, 2010-09-21 17:18

#4

OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

Arenamontanus wrote:
virus says it is contagious for just 24 hours after infection, so presumably an infected ego doesn't infect the morph

that's what I don't understand. The ego (Software) is infected resulting in psi powers that can only be implimented when they're run on properly configured hardware (a biomorph or pod brain) An infomorph can be infected but can't have psi powers. Neither can an infected ego use psi powers when instanced in a synth. Also, an infected ego retains psi powers when switching morphs. To me that suggests strongly that the ego has infected the new morph. I do understand that the brain is rewritten when a new ego is transfered. But, the brain isn't always completely reformatted (as in Write 0's) every time a new ego is swapped in.

EP p.269 wrote:
If a new resleeve is not ready and the uploading character doesn’t want to leave a potential copy of themselves behind, they [i]can[/i] have the morph’s mind wiped by the nanobots as part of the uploading process.

Empasis mine. This indicates to me that total wipe isn't something that is always standard practice. Given the Analog rather than digital nature of a biomorph brain it seems like there is some potential to get some glitches. As to the idea of synthmorphs being a cleaner way to go:

EP p.271 wrote:
Resleeving in a synthetic morph or an uplift is also quite confusing at first, given the drastically different morphologies, change in limb structure (and sometimes amount of limbs), and so on. Luckily, transhuman minds are adaptive things, and this process is aided by the application of mental “patches” during the resleeving process that give the character a bit of a boost for using their new body.

You're downloading your Ego into a brain that allready has all kinds of software patches that will have effects on your INT, SOM, at least, and proably your REF also. Aren't those patches *exactly* what psychosurgury is? So, really, how do you know that there's not a patch that's going to affect your general feelings of goodwill towards the P.C. in a very subtle way?

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Tue, 2010-09-21 17:45

#5

CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

OK, let me put it this way. Psi is not a part of the Infection. Psi is a result. When an Ego is infected with the Watts-McLeod virus its neural brain stuff is changed in such a way that it gains the ability to physically manipulate the world around it in strange and magical ways. After the Virus does its thing and leaves, for all purposes, the Ego is no longer infected. It is no longer a carrier of the Exsurgent virus in any of its forms, but it is changed to be capable of Psi. When the Psi capable Ego leaves its Morph (i.e a copy is made) I guess it is possible that if somehow reanimated it would remain with its Psi abilities (Note that this raises the ever so fun question of whether or not when you upload yourself it is actually *you*, and not just a clone of yourself. Every time you upload you are essentially commiting suicide). However the act of uploading a new Ego to that brain would alter it in such a way that it no longer has them. When the upload occurs the nanobots involved have to radically reformat the neural structure of the brain to match that of the incoming Ego, and that reformat removes the biological fiddlework that the Exsurgent virus did. At no time does the new Ego make any contact with the Exsurgent virus. It might very briefly make contact with some of the results (i.e the Psi abilities) but those are very quickly over written by the uploading of its own brain state. A Synthetic brain is not capable of performing Psi because whatever it is about Psi users that lets them do what they do requires the biological bits of the brain. Noone is quite sure what part that is, but that is the way that it works.

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Tue, 2010-09-21 18:34

#6

OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

Thanks, I get all that. My points are these; 1. An ego is nothing more than a map of neurons instanced either on hardware with biological emulation or on a biological brain. Ego=Brain=Ego. 2. Psi-waves are a brain function. The symptom of an infection of the brain. The only reference I can find on the subject is the in character Aether Jabber chat on page 219.

Quote:
theory—I’ve also seen some speculation that async minds might be modified so that they continue to produce bio-nanobots that linger in the brain, though what function these serve remains unclear. However, the [i]prevailing opinion[/i] among our best neuroscientists is that people like Srit are safe and non-infectious once the virus has run its course.

Emphasis mine. It doesn't say anywhere that the morph of an async isn't infected it simply says that they're not infecti[u]ous[/u] as far as anyone knows. And really, what's the diference between being infected or not if you have all the symptoms of the infection. So eventually with enough samples and study someone will be able to code psi abilities without the infection of the Watts-MacLeod virus strain. And that unless the brain is over writen that brain is capable of producing psi waves. PS> thanks for the answer on the Lost. :)

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Sun, 2010-09-26 07:47

#7

750

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

The impression i get from psi is that its is basically neural overclocking (at least the PC available stuff ;) ). Also, the impression i get from the ego transfer process is that it physically rewires a biological brain using nanobots (with infomorphs and cyberbrains basically being software and hardware neural nets based on the brain map of the person bootstrapped). So any changes that was done will be copies over at next transfer (unless its done from a pre-infection backup).

Fri, 2010-10-08 23:31

#8

Decivre

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

OneTrikPony wrote:
Thanks, I get all that. My points are these; 1. An ego is nothing more than a map of neurons instanced either on hardware with biological emulation or on a biological brain. Ego=Brain=Ego. 2. Psi-waves are a brain function. The symptom of an infection of the brain. The only reference I can find on the subject is the in character Aether Jabber chat on page 219. Emphasis mine. It doesn't say anywhere that the morph of an async isn't infected it simply says that they're not infecti[u]ous[/u] as far as anyone knows. And really, what's the diference between being infected or not if you have all the symptoms of the infection. So eventually with enough samples and study someone will be able to code psi abilities without the infection of the Watts-MacLeod virus strain. And that unless the brain is over writen that brain is capable of producing psi waves. PS> thanks for the answer on the Lost. :)

Syphilis is a mind-altering virus that renders a victim insane over the course of infection. Even after the viral infection is cured, the damage done will remain forever. The same is true with Watts-Macleod infection; the psi abilities are an after-effect of the virus that will remain long after infection is long gone. This can be seen when you note that a person who resleeves still has psi abilities... a biological or nanoviral infection does not transfer in the resleeving process.

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Sat, 2010-10-09 01:45

#9

OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

functionally it doesn't matter. I'm really not interested in the virus itself as much as I'm interested in the interaction between a brain and an ego. Since the last time I looked at this thread I've been thinking a lot about how much the brain creates personality and how personality can change the brain. I think that psychology is to neurology as chemistry is to physics and the ramifications of that on the setting are significant. So even tho Psi is an Ego trait it can't actually be expressed without a biomorp--the ego changes the brain. On a similar line of reasoning I believe that the Modified Behavior trait can be a morph trait as well as an ego trait--the brain changes the ego. We actually see this all the time in the real world with things like alcholism, neurologic mental diseases and hormonal disorders. Syph is a good example, androgenic substance abuse is another. Aside from drugs other gear modifies the ego also. I think it's pure awesomesauce that Emotion Control and Endocrine Control can create temporary sociopaths

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Sat, 2010-10-09 06:16

#10

750

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

Iirc, there are historical cases where people have changed personality traits after brain injuries.

Mon, 2010-10-11 21:19

#11

The Doctor The Doctor's picture

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

750 wrote:
Iirc, there are historical cases where people have changed personality traits after brain injuries.

It happens.

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Thu, 2010-10-14 09:04

#12

Veini-san

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

I have more fundamental question. Is Psi usefull for player? Psi sounds cool and add some mystic atmosphere around player's character, but what Psi is worth compare to "pure" skilled character? I would like to ask for your opinions and examples if Psi sleights are great/ver usefull/useless later/ovepowered/weak etc. And what do you think would be better for Infiltration/Hunter character? Pure skills or skills mixed with sleights. And what sleigths would be best choices for it, working thogether with skills. Thank you :)

Thu, 2010-10-14 09:52

#13

CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

In a phrase: Psi can be very, very useful if it is handled correctly. The current problem with Psi is that, basically, a few of the Psi-Chi sleights are kind of trappish (In that they are basically useless) and quite a few of the Psi-Gamma sleights are even worse. If you scour the forums you can very easily find discussions on which sleights are better than others. I am in the middle of writing a guide to which ones are worth picking up. But basically, almost all of the Psi-Chi sleights are worth it. You have to be much more careful with Psi-Gamma. Personally I think that Psi-Gamma is to expensive to make it worth picking up outside of a dedicated Psi character. Psi-Chi on the other hand is cheap and has few downsides that cannot be nulified.

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Thu, 2010-10-14 17:33

#14

Veini-san

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

Well, in my opinion (very little experienced player thought) the first mistake was to create 3 skills for Psi: Control, Sense, Psi Assault. It is really annoying, that you have to take 3 skills to have psi. And, whats worse (imo), that when you take all 3 skills, it is really useless to take only Chi sleights (you wanted to create character suported by psi, but not full psi-user), since it will be waste not to take gamma, because you spend a lot CP on psi skill points. So I think it would be better, if there would be 2 active skills for character- Psi-Chi (for only Chi sleights) and Psi Gamma (for gamma's). That could be very good for those who wanted to have subtle character with minimal psi support, and for those who wants to have full psi-user. Thats of course my opinon, but I wil try to speak with my GM about it. As for sleights, I think that there are some sleights that are realy usefull, but about half of them are useless in my opinion (not that I have right). So, from Chi: Filter- very good if GM gives you some penalty to skills. No implant can give you the same (unless you create it). High Pain Threshold- always good, especially if you have Adrenal Boost, Endoctrine Control and Panin Tolerance Trait (or 2 of those). Predictive Boost- well, can be good, it depends how GM see it. Unconcious Lead- +1 Speed with Neurochem gives you good times. Of course, you have problems to control yourself, but for critical situations- great. Gamma- Deep Scan- well, good for gaining informations, but for the character who doesn't have anything against torture or hard interrogation, it can be easlly replaced. Drive Motion- very good if we want to use some social skill, and target is tought. We can make him afraid, happy, uncomfortable etc. Subtle, but nice. Egos Scan and Omni Awareness- well, if you look for someone or someone is looking for you, those are your weapons. But good implants and skills can replace that. Psychic Stab- well, dmg, good with attack melee with good implantes (like cyberclaws). Subliminal- I think it has the biggest potential. But you have to touch your oponent, and well, thats the pain. But if have many uses, and you can combine it with Drive Emotion. Cloud Memoery- well, good, but nothing special. And sleights that gives you bonuses (+10 to this, +20 to this...). In the begining they can be usefull, but the more value have your skills, the more useless they are. I think. I dont know how about Alienation. It can be very good, but I dont understand how it works realy. Well, those are my opinions about psi, but I am open to criticism :).

Fri, 2010-10-15 05:18

#15

OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

You don't need psi skills to be an Async. Most of the psi-chi slights are automatic; meaning they don't require any roll at all to use. Ambience sense is a good example. With that one you get +10 to 4 skills, it works all the time with no test, and all for the low cost of being crazy as a shithouse rat. From a metagame point of view psi is always a good deal because they're ego modifications, meaning the skills and powers you get from psi are equivalent to gear that you can take with you when you Egocast. Even with Gamma Asyncs it's usually not important to take all three psi skills. Especially Psi Assault. I've not played a Psi-Blade character yet but it doesn't seem like the damage is all that effective compared to something like shock gloves toxins or spray weapons. I think generally you'll find that you really only need to pump two of three skills depending on your character's archetype or MOS. For instance Sence and Assault for the assassin async, or sense and control for the investigator async. I think the +10 skill powers are awesome. That +10 is calculated the way gear is; after your skill CP are spent so it's an easy way to get those special skills to stratospheric levels. And the mind rape Psi are the end-all for the social character--simply terrifying.

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Fri, 2010-10-15 07:06

#16

Veini-san

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

Well, after many days of making character, I decided to do monk-psi-assassin, from Ultimate fraction (because he want to be stronger and stronger by training and implants/cybernetics). And I gave him all 3 psi skills (and Blades, Unarmed Combat, Monowirre Garrote, Spray Weap + other skills). And from gear I bought for melee Cyberclaws, Eelware (schock), Poison Glands (BTX). And from Psi I took: Chi- Filter, Pain Threshold, Uncoucios Lead (+1 Speed), Time Sense (not sure). Gamma- Psychic Stab, Drive Motion, Sublimal, Spam. I theory, my character love to sneak to the traget, using his Ghost morph Ch-Skin, and kill him by Mono Garrote or in melee combat. Well, it is 1d10 + Will/10 from Psychic Stab, 1d10+5+SOM/10 -2 AP from Cyberclaws + Shock + BTX Posion (2d10 + 10 for turn in 3 Action Turn, chance to paralys). I dont know if I sould add here RAW Unarmed DMG (1d10). Well, with Uncoucios Lead and Neurachem it is 3 Speed. And I can hit target and use for example Sublimal (drop your weapon/on your knees), or Drive Motion (fear/panic etc.) or Spam. Well, will see how it will be working in real life :D. Of course I have Fray, Iniflt, Invest, Research and Intimid + others to find my target or do investigations :). And for armored guys there is always shredder/garrote. BTW. In book cyberlcaws are in unarmed combat. Well, shoulnd't they be in Blades section?

Fri, 2010-10-15 09:17

#17

OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

I thought that cyberclaws should be a specialization of blades skill also. By RAW I was wrong. I have no explination that's just the way it is. I'm not sure weather Psychic Stab can be used as the same time as a melee attack. I tend to think that it can't. Psychic Stab requires a Complex Action: Psi Assault test. A melee attack also requires a Complex Action: (melee) Attack test. You can only make one Complex Action per Action Phase. Of course it's up to GM who's table you're sitting at but I try to design my characters for the strictest reading of the rules. Looks like you've done a fairly thourough job of setting up a melee character. As such your character will be most tactically effective in close quarters which will often mean smaller habitats which will mean you're going to need the Freefall skill as you'll end up rolling that almost every action in microgravity. Also don't forget Free running. As a melee character you should be very afraid of guns. As the Fray skill is halved against ranged attacks the most you'll get out of it is 40. You can use Freerunning as a full defense action vs. ranged attacks with a +30 bonus. Also, because you can use you're melee skill to resist melee attacks you'll probably only ever use Fray against ranged attacks and environmental hazards. Since you'll be at less than earth gravity almost anywhere you go remember that you can do some Super cool stuff with Freerunning. If you can dunk a basket ball on earth you can jump to the roof of a second story building on Mars. Tactically it looks like you're doing ok but I'd worry more about strategy at this point. 1. Ubiquitous surveilance: There are spimes Everywhere. Working alone you're almost guaranteed to get caught killing someone. The only way to avoid the consequences of that will be to work for an authority that can protect you or quickly move to another jurisdiction where you can't be reached. That will mean an Ego Cast, usually, which means you loose your cool implants almost every job. Don't rely entirely on stealth, don't get addicted to gear. Unless you just want to be a single faction's soldier you're going to need an array of networking skills and rep to replace that gear. 2. Really Killing someone is hard. You accomplish very little by killing someone's morph. So you'll need to consider that your primary skills will be useful only in instances where it's advantageous to temporarily inconvenience the target. Physical assassination is hardly the final solution that it once was. I can see a situation where a syndicate like the Nine Lives Crew would send someone like your character to retrieve the stack of a high value target though. You might end up being more of a kidnaper than an assassin. 3. some people are not human. Psi and blades and electroshock are ineffective against a significant portion of the population because they're sleeved in synthetics or they're infolife. [Edit] BTW, where you from Veni-San? If no one's said it before, welcome to the forrums. :)

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Fri, 2010-10-15 10:01

#18

Veini-san

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

I am from Poland, so forgive me my English mistakes. Thanks for welcome :) As for Psychic Stab, It is something that bothers me. You have to touch your oponent to hit him with Psychic Stab. But touch means touch. It can be punch. So when I punch someone, I touch him, so I can Stab him. Well, I think a mind is faster than body. Well, thats my theory of course. I can not use Stab while I am using range weapon, but when I hit someone.....well, I will speak with my GM about it. I didnt forget about freerunning. My Skills are: Sense,Psi Assault, Control, Spray Weapons, Fray, Freerunning, Climbing, Iniftration, Investigation, Intimidiation, Blades, Unarmed Combat, Kinecsis, Exotic: Monowire Garrote, Research, Net: Criminals, Net: Hypercorps. All skills about 50-60. Morph: Ghost. COG: 15 COO: 20 INT: 20 REF: 25 SAV: 10 SOM: 25 WIL: 20 I just figured out, that I can throw away Sense (non sleight here, my bad). And well, you are right that physical assassination is hard to be "once for all" solution. But even powerfull man need some time to regain new morph, upload their ego etc. You can temporarily eliminate someone from game. And, well, you are right that psi can sometimes be useless in my characters job. Maybe I should drop psi and take something like Infosec, Deception, Kinetic Weapons and Disguise/Freefall. I think I would be than more like a Ego Hunter/Agent, than raw assassin. My primary job would be Investigate and problem solving, but If I have to eliminate someone it would be silent kill by Garrote or Melee/Bullet from behind, using my Chameleon/Climbing skills. Maybe there I will have more fun :). Thanks for your thoughts. Well, if you can't use psi with melee it is really shame, because it would be great melee combination. If not, it is better to choose between psi/social character or social/combat character.

Fri, 2010-10-15 10:09

#19

CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

Veini-san wrote:
I am from Poland, so forgive me my English mistakes. Thanks for welcome :) As for Psychic Stab, It is something that bothers me. You have to touch your oponent to hit him with Psychic Stab. But touch means touch. It can be punch. So when I punch someone, I touch him, so I can Stab him. Well, I think a mind i quicker than body. Well, thats my theory of course. I can not use Stab while I am using range weapon, but when I hit someone.....well, I will speak with my GM about it.

The thing is, Psychic Stab is in itself a Complex Action. If you wanted to punch a person and then Psychic Stab someone you would have to first spend a Complex Action on making the attack, and once it had been resolved you would then spend a second Complex Action to make the Psychic Stab. Some GMs (I personally do) would say that each attack has to be made separately, and that you cannot use the punch attack to trigger the Psychic Stab. It should also be noted that Psychic Stab is a terrible primary attack method. It really is useless for almost all circumstances. It does terrible damage, it requires a skill all unto itself and when you use it you are just as likely to do as much damage to your opponent as you are to yourself. The only thing it has going for it is that it ignores armor and that it is stealthy. Few people are aware of Psi abilities, so if you use it on someone and it kills them they are going to have a hard time proving that you did it. If I was going to make an assassin I would probably avoid it. There are better Gamma sleights to take. Deep Scan is very useful for getting information out of bodyguards and the like. Ego Sense can be useful at times to detect a quarry that is hiding in a room, or to make sure you are not walking through a door into a trap. Cloud Memory lets you knock someone over the head and be sure that they will not remember your face (Their Muse might though). Subliminal can make assassinations look like suicides. Omniawareness can let an assassin know if their cover has been blown. (It should also be noted that using your Psi abilities to kill people is going to bring a lot of attention from on high towards your character. Firewall looks out for that sort of thing, as do organisations like Project Ozma. Both do not appreciate people who have been infected by the virus doing dastardly deeds.)

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Fri, 2010-10-15 11:12

#20

OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

LOL Don't worry about your english dude. English isn't my first language either. ('Western American' is ;) I spell with a pretty strong accent too) I don't argue that psychic stab is useless. Simply that by a strict reading of the rules a GM is correct to disallow it in combination with a melee attack. That same GM would have to admit that psychic stab is the ultimate stealth attack. First of all an attack can only be resisted if the target is aware. This means you can psi-stab someone in the middle of a conversation and unless they know you're going to do it they don't get to resist the attack. The same tactic works from a position of stealth also and a simple touch attack probably won't give away your position. Sure, it's not a one-shot-one-kill attack option but you do have about a 60% chance of causing a Wound in 90% of the biomorph population. And, further strict reading of the rules would indicate that Called Shots are an option which would enable Specific Targeting to cause temporary blindness, for example. On top of all that you've got a weapon that leaves no forensic evidence beside anomalous neurological damage. And there are no scanners for psi-blades. You can take it anywhere and the only way you're going to get busted is by another async. Bypassing armor is a good point. Melee weapons are fairly weak in this game, relative to kinetics and spray weapons which are only resisted by the heaviest armors. Finally the greatest power of Psychic Stab is that it's a Touch Attack which means that you've got an automatic +20 to the attack roll. If you're newly sleeved, just out of the tank, you've already got one of the most powerful melee weapons in your hands with no need to go shopping. [edit] which by the way is a massive strategic advantage because you don't have to cast onto a station and immediately go shopping for weapons. Trying to sneak around while you gear up can be a pain in the ass. If you take psychic stab out of the context of a 'fair fight' which you should as an assasin it's a pretty cool power.

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Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

Sun, 2010-10-17 19:41

#21

Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

I'm wondering something: how does a Psi-Gamma sleight such as psi-stab appear to witnesses? Is it physically visible (like Psylock's psychic blade in X-men) or is it invisible like when Rowan and his rogues teeps attacked Bester's men in A War Of Telepath story arc in Babylon 5's final season? both are equally deadly, but one is visible, the other is not. Not to mundanes, anyway

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Mon, 2010-10-18 02:49

#22

Rhyx

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

That's a good question but I don't think that Psi show up in the physical (Although I have to admit that the psylocke idea is neat) But none of the other Psi slights in the book seems to have a physical manifestation..

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Mon, 2010-10-18 22:58

#23

Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

there has to be some tell tale signs that a gamma psi is active, since it interact with the environment. Though the phenomenon itself is invisible, what it does to the world, the universe, must be visible somehow. It's like the black holes. They're, by definition, invisible, since they absorb light instead of reflecting it, but the congregation of matter orbiting the event horizon once its caught in the black hole's gravity well. Another exemple: lazers. normally, a lazer is unseen, but because of dust particles, mist, smoke, whatever, the lazer can be seen. That said, not all sleight might generate enough interaction to be visible, at least not in the visible spectrum. So, will all that stated, would you think a potent sleight like psi stab would have such tell tale, signature signs?

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Wed, 2010-10-20 10:39

#24

Decivre

Re: Question: Lost, psi. and another question.

Quincey Forder wrote:
there has to be some tell tale signs that a gamma psi is active, since it interact with the environment. Though the phenomenon itself is invisible, what it does to the world, the universe, must be visible somehow. It's like the black holes. They're, by definition, invisible, since they absorb light instead of reflecting it, but the congregation of matter orbiting the event horizon once its caught in the black hole's gravity well. Another exemple: lazers. normally, a lazer is unseen, but because of dust particles, mist, smoke, whatever, the lazer can be seen. That said, not all sleight might generate enough interaction to be visible, at least not in the visible spectrum. So, will all that stated, would you think a potent sleight like psi stab would have such tell tale, signature signs?

Gamma sleights don't interact with the environment at all. They only interact with minds, either to influence them through touch, or to sense them at range. Neither have any particular reason to be seen. However, if someone finds a way to perceive brainwaves and light magnetic fields (which are the means by which psi works), I would say that perceiving psi could be a possibility. A person who can detect electromagnetic fields might be able to sense a tiny spike if psi is occurring within the vicinity. This might be more evident in psi-to-psi combat, where their sleights can be used at greater range due to the interaction of their bodies. However, I would say that most sleight use below epsilon level should be subtle enough to be invisible, unless you are a professional and know what you are looking for (asyncs might be able to see signs that a sleight is being used). As for psychic stab, I would say that it works by sending psi waves into the target to disrupt autonomic processes. Dramatic but short-lived convulsions and spasms would result, causing damage to the body. This might manifest as something as dramatic as a brief seizure, or as subtle as a stomach pain.

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