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Question about how some skills work

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Veini-san Veini-san's picture
Question about how some skills work
Hello. I am currenlty wondering how and when two skills work. I mean Research and Protocol. I read book, and I know what is wrote there, but still I wish you could explain me in details when you use those skills, when they are usefull, with what skills they work together perfectly, examples from your sessions etc. And one of my friends play as a detectiv, and he doesn't know how usefull can be Research in ivestigation. When you are looking for some clues you use Investigation or Research? When you looking for someone, you use Networking or Research? Also, Research is about using and navigate in Mesh. But almost every transhuman has acces to Mesh and they use it since they were children. So it is not so hard to find some info and other things in Mesh, since it is like a breathing for transhumanity nad it is muuuuuuuch easier than using net in reality. So I suppose that Research is something more than this, more advanced, but I can't figure it out. What Research can do, which can be done by any other mesh user? Is it about speed or time needed to find something online? And Protocol- the same. Examples and details please, since I dont know how to use it durring the game. Thank you very much for your answers/
CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture
Re: Question about how some skills work
Research – The Mesh is as deep as it is broad. Think about the amount of data we sift through with our current internet standard. Now multiply that by thousands. Include everything that is currently sitting in Darknet, everything smuggled away in semi-secret databases and other hard to reach areas. Now multiply that by thousands as well. Then throw in all the new data entry forms. Sensor feeds, XP feeds, real time video feeds from every single person in the system. That is a huge amount of data to sift through. The data is also extremely complex. The data is also, at least some of the time, entirely made up by some idiot script kiddie with a blog. The Research skill is a measure of how well a person is able to sift through all the useless garbage to find the hidden clues that lead to the treasure trove. Its the same way that certain people today are extremely skilled at finding people by putting together small bits of information into a whole. I am fairly good at that (I tend to be able to find peoples addresses/emails/friends and family quite quickly) but I know people who are much, much better at it. Being able to do that is only going to get more and more difficult as more and more data is thrown onto the network. So yes, it is essentially how quickly a user can find something online. Most people will be able to find whatever they need on the Mesh if they spend enough time doing so (Almost all Research rolls are Task actions, so you can take your time and rack up the bonuses really easily), but a lot of the time you really do not have 3 weeks to find out where so and so was and so and so time, and who he was speaking too. Protocol – Protocol is basically D&Ds Diplomacy skill. Whenever you want to suck up to someone, charm them or generally be a suave bastard you would be using this.
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Veini-san Veini-san's picture
Re: Question about how some skills work
CodeBreaker wrote:
Protocol – Protocol is basically D&Ds Diplomacy skill. Whenever you want to suck up to someone, charm them or generally be a suave bastard you would be using this.
But than what about Deception, Persuasion and Intimidiation? It is all about diplomacy. You can lie or act (Deception), talk polite, clever or charming (Persuasion, also Deception if you act) or use hard arguments and threats (Intimidiation). So when you use Protocol instead of those skills?
CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture
Re: Question about how some skills work
OK, so say you were in a glamorous, upscale restaurant meeting with a new client who you have never met. You know he is one of those traditionalist Japanese types, but other than that you draw a blank on how you should interact with him. You would be able to roll Protocol to know when you are supposed to bow, to know who should pour whose drink first, if you should remain sitting or stand when you first meet him. Some other time you are in a dingy Scum barge and you need to melt into the background at a bar or something. You would be able to roll Protocol to know how you should act around the bruisers who are crowded around the holoscreen watching the latest Blitz game (Go Titans!) and not stand out like a sore thumb. Then you find yourself surrounded by Ultimate meat heads with a penchant for ridiculous body mods and what looks to be a large collections of big guns. You would be able to roll Protocol to know what not to say to piss these guys off, what to say to get into their good graces, and any names you might want to drop to impress them. That kind of thing. Anything that could be considered etiquette (Which fork do I eat the fish with again?) or streetwise (Don't walk unarmed down 22nd street, or you will get jumped and beaten).
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Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: Question about how some skills work
Veini-san wrote:
Hello. I am currenlty wondering how and when two skills work. I mean Research and Protocol. I read book, and I know what is wrote there, but still I wish you could explain me in details when you use those skills, when they are usefull, with what skills they work together perfectly, examples from your sessions etc. And one of my friends play as a detectiv, and he doesn't know how usefull can be Research in ivestigation. When you are looking for some clues you use Investigation or Research? When you looking for someone, you use Networking or Research? Also, Research is about using and navigate in Mesh. But almost every transhuman has acces to Mesh and they use it since they were children. So it is not so hard to find some info and other things in Mesh, since it is like a breathing for transhumanity nad it is muuuuuuuch easier than using net in reality. So I suppose that Research is something more than this, more advanced, but I can't figure it out. What Research can do, which can be done by any other mesh user? Is it about speed or time needed to find something online? And Protocol- the same. Examples and details please, since I dont know how to use it durring the game. Thank you very much for your answers/
Remember that most skills can be defaulted on; that is you can use them without being trained in the skill. The largest majority of mesh users have little need to build up a talent for researching things on the mesh. This is something you can see today; everyone knows how to use Google, but not everyone knows how to use it effectively. You wouldn't believe how many computers I've had to fix because some 'tard disabled Google's SafeSearch filter and downloaded a few viruses while they were searching for a Lady Gaga MP3 (true story), or perma-crashed their grandma's computer looking at porn (also true story). Searching for common knowledge data, or an encyclopedia entry, or popular streamed videos is one thing... and something most people don't have a hard time doing (+60 to the test). But it takes a certain degree of talent to find the right torrent file, or to get the right search filter on eMule, or to find an obscure file on an FTP network. This is where the research skill comes in. Unskilled Research: You can use all the most popular sites of the mesh, but you do little beyond that. Modern equivalents: people who spend all of their net time on Facebook and emails, occasionally checking out YouTube. 40 Research: You are well versed in use of the mesh, and know how to use it to find juicy things. Modern equivalents: people who are versed in bittorrent and limewire. Might surf more obscure elements of the net. 60 Research: You aren't just versed in the mesh, but you have access to elements that are not publicly available. Modern equivalents: people with access to private information networks. Users at this level are likely part of private newsgroups, or perhaps the source of information for organizations like Wikileaks. 80 Research: You have access to some of the most secretive information on the mesh. You might even have access to Firewall servers. Modern equivalents: computer researcher working for an intelligence agency. Access to Top Secret Clearance servers all over the world. 99 Research: Near-omnipotence over the mesh. You have the means to find nearly everything that ends up in the cloud. As for protocol, the rough of it is that the skill is about diplomacy. Those who are versed in the skill know all the intricacies and subtle gestures of various cultures and groups. A person versed in protocol knows when to bow, when to shake hands and how to do it, and all the customs that entail a specific social venue. They know all the faux pas that will make them look like some bumpkin, and know how to attract the right attention wherever they go. This is the skill that diplomats and TV secret agents have that make them look so debonair. Style, class, composure... these all make up the protocol skill. This is a more subtle skill than the other social skills, because it represents something less verbal. Protocol is used to make sure you fit into a crowd, or stand out of it (albeit in the best possible way). Unskilled: Average person. You can say "please" and "thank you". It doesn't mean you always will. 40 Protocol: You've been raised to be classy. You know how to carry yourself in a cultured social situation. This is about where someone might be if they graduated from a private school that focuses on this, or finished basic training in the military. 60 Protocol: This is where ivy league graduates, military officers, and politicians stand. You are not just trained, but experienced in handling social scenarios. You've done it long enough that you know how the game works beyond just what you learned in schools. At this point, you are a real diplomat. 80 Protocol: Old money, nobility and world leaders operate at this level. At this point, you know how to handle yourself in almost any social scenario throughout the system.
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Veini-san Veini-san's picture
Re: Question about how some skills work
Thank you both very, very much. Now it is all clear to me. I am really gratefull :D. Now we can play. 1 more question, if you don't mind. It is about value of skills. I see that you are very experienced players, so could you tell me what are usually your character values of skills in the beginning of the game? Me and me firends decided that the best for beginning character is about 18 Active skills with 50-60 value. Of course if character is more sciencist, it would be about 13 Active and much more Knowledge skills. But this is how me make our characters, and we wish to know if we won't regret it or if it is good and well done. In the book, there is no advice about this, and we would like to hear it from someone experienced. Thanks once again.
CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture
Re: Question about how some skills work
Generally it doesn't matter, however there are a few skills that you really, really want to have simply because they are so useful. You probably want either Beam Weapons or Kinetic Weapons reasonably high so you are not useless in a firefight. This is easy to explain away if you start as a Firewall Sentinel, they don't send agents out into the world without the ability to defend themselves if need be. Fray is very important to keep yourself from being shot right in your face, even if it is halved during ranged combat. Free Fall and Freerunning are very useful to have, it sucks to all hell when you are jumping between docked space craft and you accidentally space yourself. Obviously you want a good Networking skill, in Eclipse Phase it is not what you know rather than who you know. Makes getting gear from people so much easier when you can call up your local criminal syndicate and organize an ammo drop. Perception is essential – If you cannot see your enemy/target/clue how do you expect to get on in the world? Slightly less important are the Technical skills, Infosec, Interfacing, Programming and Research. Having everyone in your group at least be competent at Research is really handy, the more eyes you have looking for information the better. If you have a good hacker on your side Infosec is less important (He just routes all your electronics through his and watches the master node with his legion of security AI) but it can still be handy to have for those times when your hacker has been shot and you need to get through this door now. Interfacing can be handy, depending on what your role is, same with Programming, although most programming tasks can just be handled by a Simulspace fork of your resident hacker. For values, I tend to make my characters excel at certain professions, depending on what they do. The difference between a hacker character with an Infosec of 60 and one with an Infosec of 80 is actually a lot larger than you would think, for example, because the Infosec 60 hacker has to find an extra +20 modifier from somewhere to hit that sweet 99 skill spot. I keep the essentials resonably high, close to 60 with some like Fray and Perception closing on 70 or so. Everything else I get as high as I can without becoming a specialized hacker monkey who is only useful at one thing. 14 such skills sounds about right for my characters.
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Veini-san Veini-san's picture
Re: Question about how some skills work
Thanks, man, the more you people here explain me this things, the more I finally understand the game :D. Well, my character is a Hypercorp agent, hired for shady cases and out of official process investigations and buisnesses. So I see him as more social character, not hacker. Thats why I took social skills (Decep,Intimid,Persuasion,Protocol,Kinesics) and skills like Infiltration, Investigation, Research and Infosec. I have all those basic skills (Fray, Freerunning, Percep etc.). Four combat skills (Blades, Kinetic, Spray, Unarmed). 2 Networking (Hyper,Criminals). And optional Climbing (45 only, because of Ghost morph with Grip Pads). I am wondering if I need all 4 social skills: Decep,Intimid,Persuasion,Protocol. I am thinking about drop one of them and add poits to other skills (for several more 60 values) or take impersonation. I just don't know if I will be able to use all those social skills, but I don't want also find myself in situation when my char is unable to get some info from someone. So thats my problem. All skills from 55-60.
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: Question about how some skills work
Veini-san wrote:
Thank you both very, very much. Now it is all clear to me. I am really gratefull :D. Now we can play. 1 more question, if you don't mind. It is about value of skills. I see that you are very experienced players, so could you tell me what are usually your character values of skills in the beginning of the game? Me and me firends decided that the best for beginning character is about 18 Active skills with 50-60 value. Of course if character is more sciencist, it would be about 13 Active and much more Knowledge skills. But this is how me make our characters, and we wish to know if we won't regret it or if it is good and well done. In the book, there is no advice about this, and we would like to hear it from someone experienced. Thanks once again.
Here are the benchmarks I use when deciding where I want a character's skills. 40: This is where I put common skills for my character. This is where skills that he is adequately trained in are set. This is the equivalent of high-school education or basic training in a field. Hobby skills and one's that your character might have learned casually will be at this level. With firewall agents, even one who's skillset isn't in weapons will have at least a few combat skills at this level. 50: This is where I put more focused skills for my character. If my character is specially trained in a certain set of skills (social skills for a diplomat, combat skills for a soldier), then most of those skills will be at this level. 60: This is generally the highest I ever put one of my character's skills. This is when your character is specialized in a specific field (kinetic weapons skill for a sniper, infosec for a hacker). 70-80: I would recommend only 1 or 2 skills at this level, if any. This means that your character has achieved mastery of one given field. If your character has skills at this level, then your character is probably going to be themed around using that skill exclusively. One of my characters is a mind-control async, and he has his Control and Unarmed Combat skills at this levels (and Unarmed Combat is further specialized into touch attacks). The best way I've found to buy up your skillset is to write down all the skills you want your character to have, then organize your skills into these different groups and subtract the values from your skillpoint pool. As you get closer to using all of your points, you can then start fine tuning individual values. If you find that a skill partially fits into two adjacent bins in your character concept (you want them to have a specific skill that is more common than focused, but more focused than common skills), then you should use 45/55/65 instead of the benchmarks I gave.
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]