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On Synth/infomorphs, Software and Spacedrugs.

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Thu, 2014-05-15 08:30

ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture

On Synth/infomorphs, Software and Spacedrugs.

As I lack a gaming group atm, and for the foreseeable future, I've been trying to scratch the EP itch by creating characters, and a couple of questions have popped up. 1. In transhuman there are rules for the shape adjusting mod, and the Quadruped/Hexapod trick to increase speed is neat, but how many actions would it take to reconfigure a humanoid morphs arms to enable a quadrupedal gait instead of growing completely new limbs to take advantage of this trick? 2. I find the idea of narcoalgorithm software interesting, but they apparently cost the same as the normal drug. Are they then single use effects, or can they be reused? If they are single use, could one get a "Narcoalgorithm Gland" software upgrade? 3. Drug glands seem odd when one considers addiction. Partially because it seems that major addiction is inevitable, but mostly because addiction (disregarding drug specific side-effects) has no consequence for glanders. "Oh no, I need Neem! Whatever shall I do! Oh, right. I AM MADE OF IT." Are glanders simply immune to addiction from their own product? If not, should they be? I'd imagine that the implant includes either specific anti-addiction counter-meds, or the brain is altered just enough that addiction is impossible - on the other hand, if you're addicted to the substance from somewhere else, your product wouldn't count as actually taking the drug. 3. I loves me some Multitasking, but Mental Speed is delicious as well. It makes sense that the extra complex actions they create aren't compatible, but I really like the idea of having both anyway. Seeing as a Ghostrider module is really cheap, and can be used to contain an alpha-fork like a Multitasking module, I can't help but wonder if one couldn't use the auto-reintegration software from the MT module and apply it to the ghostrider to get the thematic ability of multiple awarenesses without the extra actions that would otherwise entail. What do you guys think? If yes, what do you think it should cost? 4. Finally, software plug-ins, upgrades and eidolons travel with the ego when it moves - it seems that they are essentially "part" of the ego. What then happens when the ego resleeves into thinkmeat? Is the software included in the transfer in an inactive state, or is it removed before sleeving? 5. Suppose I am sleeved in an Infomorph. I then farcast to another habitat and once again resleeve into an Infomorph. Is it the same infomorph (with the associated boni to integration), or is each infomorph/server configuration "unique"? How about with eidolons, as they are carried with the ego?

—

In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?

Thu, 2014-05-15 09:54

uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture

There is a trait for not

There is a trait for not getting addicted called Drug Exception, when I design morphs for players to acquire that were designed with a drug gland in mind, I usually add that one. Frequently with a compensatory drawback. Also I think it only protects against physical addiction, mental addiction is the only thing keeping my Sentinels from being completely jacked up on MRDR and Kick constantly.

—

Exhuman, and Humanitarian.

Thu, 2014-05-15 11:02

Urthdigger Urthdigger's picture

For 3, you will get an

For 3, you will get an addiction. It will just be super easy to get your fix.

Thu, 2014-05-15 13:50

Aldrich

4 - 5

4. - I generally assume that it's part of the the ego's virtual environment, not the ego itself, seeing as it can be simply uninstalled or deactivated - if it was part of the ego I think it would take psychosurgery to remove. So its transferred in an inactive state and stored in the new morph mesh inserts same as other software, files, the muse (when it can't be run), etc. 5 - Again, I would call it the same infomorph (eidolon, really), as you end up in a piece of software that was transferred with you. What hardware it's running on is mostly irrelevant, part of the point of the eidolon is to provide a consistent experience to the ego that's living in it.

Thu, 2014-05-15 14:54

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture

ThatWhichNeverWas wrote:As I

ThatWhichNeverWas wrote:
As I lack a gaming group atm, and for the foreseeable future, I've been trying to scratch the EP itch by creating characters, and a couple of questions have popped up. 1. In transhuman there are rules for the shape adjusting mod, and the Quadruped/Hexapod trick to increase speed is neat, but how many actions would it take to reconfigure a humanoid morphs arms to enable a quadrupedal gait instead of growing completely new limbs to take advantage of this trick?

Good question. When you say quadrupedal, I assume you mean "Getting down on all fours" instead of "moving like a gorilla." Well... It's not going to work all that sexily, unless your flexbot already has extra-long arms about the length of its legs or more.... But it would be less troublesome than a "minor" alteration, such as "walker to snake." I'm inclined to say 2 action turns, quick action on each turn, like "Extend in one dimension by 33% of volume."

Quote:
2. I find the idea of narcoalgorithm software interesting, but they apparently cost the same as the normal drug. Are they then single use effects, or can they be reused? If they are single use, could one get a "Narcoalgorithm Gland" software upgrade?

Depends on where you got it. If you're buying it off a street-corner entopic sales-bot in Chinatown or off a drug dealer, it's going to be programmed in such a way as to frag its own coding if you use it once, because they like repeat customers. Of course, if you're snagging it from the open source databanks of the autonomists and argonauts, it's a program like any other, and you can run it as often as you want. Also, it's [i]free[/i], they'd just like you to throw them a rep bump if you like it. And I guess you could get a "Narcoalgorithym Gland" software upgrade... But it would really just be an un-inhibited version of the narcoalgorithym you can run as often as you please.

Quote:
3. Drug glands seem odd when one considers addiction. Partially because it seems that major addiction is inevitable, but mostly because addiction (disregarding drug specific side-effects) has no consequence for glanders. "Oh no, I need Neem! Whatever shall I do! Oh, right. I AM MADE OF IT." Are glanders simply immune to addiction from their own product? If not, should they be? I'd imagine that the implant includes either specific anti-addiction counter-meds, or the brain is altered just enough that addiction is impossible - on the other hand, if you're addicted to the substance from somewhere else, your product wouldn't count as actually taking the drug.

Owing to the way the Addiction negative quality works in Eclipse Phase, Minor addictions are only a problem if you fail to get your fix. By a strict reading of the wording of a Major addiction, however, the character suffers a penalty of -10 DUR and/or -20 Willpower Stress Tests, depending on whether their addiction is physical or mental. That's not "if they haven't got their fix," mind you, that's [b]ALL THE TIME.[/b] Moderate addictions carry half that penalty. I'd call that "Problematic." Having a drug gland implanted? The good news is that you'd never suffer from a failure to get your fix as long as you're in that morph. The bad news is that you can look forward to a rampaging drug problem that makes what happened on Saturday before last's [i]Orphan Black[/i] look like a bad hit of hash. Enjoy having either or both of a permanent -10 Durability and a -20 Willpower to Stress Tests and being a physically and/or mentally broken husk of a transhuman, desperately jamming on the "hit me up" button while your muse begs and pleads with you to get into rehab and is trying to decide whether or not to actually break the "hit you up" button.

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3. I loves me some Multitasking, but Mental Speed is delicious as well. It makes sense that the extra complex actions they create aren't compatible, but I really like the idea of having both anyway. Seeing as a Ghostrider module is really cheap, and can be used to contain an alpha-fork like a Multitasking module, I can't help but wonder if one couldn't use the auto-reintegration software from the MT module and apply it to the ghostrider to get the thematic ability of multiple awarenesses without the extra actions that would otherwise entail. What do you guys think? If yes, what do you think it should cost?

That's not really the same as the multi-tasking module, I'd say. The Multi-Tasking implant is probably specially designed to prevent the forks from undergoing alienation - keeping them just out-of-touch enough so that they aren't keenly aware that they're not the "you" in charge of the body. There's probably some bleed-over with the body's meatware/cyberware brain, too, some kind of sensation sharing that makes it not quite like a full forking, but like one of those transitional resleevings, where continuity is kept. Basically, the multi-tasking hardware is specialized for its task. If you're using a Ghostrider to contain an alpha fork and have it do stuff for you, you'll have to roll reintegration normally, [i]every four hours[/i], which is gonna be a royal PitA. The Multi-Tasking implant won't do that to you.

Quote:
4. Finally, software plug-ins, upgrades and eidolons travel with the ego when it moves - it seems that they are essentially "part" of the ego. What then happens when the ego resleeves into thinkmeat? Is the software included in the transfer in an inactive state, or is it removed before sleeving?

Think of the Eidolon, plugins, and upgrades as a sleeve type and its augmentations. That's what they are - an "info-morph." The basic infomorph in the EP Core is an info-flat, but it's still a form of info-morph. The Eidolon and the plugins and upgrades are just the software shell that's wrapped around the [b]massive[/b] backup file that is your ego and is what gets written to a brain when you sleeve physically. So, that said: when you instance as an infomorph, can you take your Fury with 250,000 credits worth of augmentations with you? No. No, you cannot. So when you're going from an infomorph state to a physical state, your eidolon, plugins, etcetera, are all extraneous data that [i]can't[/i] be written to your new thinkmeat, or even your thinkcyber. [b]That said[/b], there is precisely jack and shit stopping you from saving a copy of your Eidolon shell and all your plugins on your new thinkmeat's mesh inserts for later use when and if you revert to an infomorph state. Hell, there's nothing (except DRM, and I think you know what to do about that,) stopping you from copying it to all of your friends and family and all of your backups and putting it out on the mesh for all and sundry to grab a copy of.

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5. Suppose I am sleeved in an Infomorph. I then farcast to another habitat and once again resleeve into an Infomorph. Is it the same infomorph (with the associated boni to integration), or is each infomorph/server configuration "unique"? How about with eidolons, as they are carried with the ego?

Depends. Remember, the basic infomorph is an info-flat, basically an eidolon of its own. Your ego itself doesn't run, it's just a gigantic pile of memory. It needs to be wrapped in the infomorph program. Think of your ego as a gigantic pile of uncompiled code that gets compiled when it's instanced. Anyway, I would say that if you bring a copy of your Eidolon (even if it's the info-flat,) and any plugins/upgrades you had and get reactivated in that, you don't even need to roll. No alienation, no integration, or even continuity. If you're forced to get a different Eidolon, even if it's theoretically one with the same stats, you'll need to roll, because I imagine Eidolons are massive programs that constantly adjust to you.

—

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Thu, 2014-05-15 15:38

Lorsa

ThatWhichNeverWas wrote:3. I

ThatWhichNeverWas wrote:
3. I loves me some Multitasking, but Mental Speed is delicious as well. It makes sense that the extra complex actions they create aren't compatible, but I really like the idea of having both anyway. Seeing as a Ghostrider module is really cheap, and can be used to contain an alpha-fork like a Multitasking module, I can't help but wonder if one couldn't use the auto-reintegration software from the MT module and apply it to the ghostrider to get the thematic ability of multiple awarenesses without the extra actions that would otherwise entail. What do you guys think? If yes, what do you think it should cost?

I think I should mention that I've made a houserule that says Multitasking can only be used in cyberbrains. Otherwise it doesn't really make any sense at all to me. Where are the short-term forks run? Some simply say "in the implant" (making it essentially a 2x ghost-rider module) but that doesn't explain why you get your morph bonuses for actions performed with it. The morph bonuses in a biomorph comes from being in the actual body, if you have infomorphs running in some implant they shouldn't get to use 'em. Also, re-integration into a biomorph takes at least 10 minutes, a fact that seem to be forgotten with the multi-tasking. That kind of implant-to-biomorph integration also implies some form of ego-bridge is implanted (making the implant exceedingly cheap) or that ego-bridges aren't necessary at all and you might as well merge an ego in your ghost-rider module with yourself on the fly. All these issues seem to contradict other rules mentioned so in order for the game to be consistent I decided they can only be used with cyberbrains. In a cyberbrain, it would be entirely possible to create a short-term fork or two (as it takes but a few seconds at most) and re-integrate them while still keeping the morph bonuses (as the forks are also run in the same cyberbrain that provides the bonuses). It makes perfect sense. I also figured that Mental Speed, as listed, doesn't really make sense in a cyberbrain, so made it biomorph exclusive. It would be possible to make a similar implant that can be used for cyberbrains and infomorphs, but it doesn't have to be nanoware so is probably cheaper.

—

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Fri, 2014-05-16 10:25

ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture

Wow this took a lot of time to type.

uwtartarus wrote:
Also I think it only protects against physical addiction, mental addiction is the only thing keeping my Sentinels from being completely jacked up on MRDR and Kick constantly.

Really? Because the powergamer in me says that a MRDR gland, severe addiction and willpower to even it out is pretty economical. Moreover, pushing willpower high enough to render addiction essentially impossible compares favourably to actually buying the aptitude points drug abuse can provide.

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
Good question. When you say quadrupedal, I assume you mean "Getting down on all fours" instead of "moving like a gorilla."

Yeah, I was thinking more “xenomorph” than primate. Specifically, the picture in my head is a Liquid-Silver Steel morph that looks something like this this with antlers (radio booster) instead of head-tacles, and not-wierd legs.

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
That's not "if they haven't got their fix," mind you, that's [b]ALL THE TIME.[/b] Moderate addictions carry half that penalty.

Okay, I actually misread the disadvantage. I thought the durability/willpower loss was conditional on not getting a fix. On the other hand, as I said above, it's not too hard to max out will to avoid addiction.

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
There's probably some bleed-over with the body's meatware/cyberware brain, too, some kind of sensation sharing that makes it not quite like a full forking, but like one of those transitional resleevings, where continuity is kept.

The thing is that the Ghostrider can apparently do this... that's what got me to thinking that the difference may be bridgeable.

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
No, you cannot. So when you're going from an infomorph state to a physical state, your eidolon, plugins, etcetera, are all extraneous data that [i]can't[/i] be written to your new thinkmeat, or even your thinkcyber.

Nuts. I was really charmed with the idea that upgrades really were mind-augmentations – semi permanent changes to the ego, or even symbiotic “sub-egos” which ride with you. Ah well, this sounds like a job for Babylon Vonderall: competative poledancer by day, Firewall Neuroprogrammer by night!

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
I would say that if you bring a copy of your Eidolon (even if it's the info-flat,) and any plugins/upgrades you had and get reactivated in that, you don't even need to roll. No alienation, no integration, or even continuity. If you're forced to get a different Eidolon, even if it's theoretically one with the same stats, you'll need to roll, because I imagine Eidolons are massive programs that constantly adjust to you.

Awesomesauce.

Lorsa wrote:
Where are the short-term forks run? Some simply say "in the implant" (making it essentially a 2x ghost-rider module) but that doesn't explain why you get your morph bonuses for actions performed with it. The morph bonuses in a biomorph comes from being in the actual body, if you have infomorphs running in some implant they shouldn't get to use 'em.

Why shouldn't egos in ghostriders use the morph's boni? I mean, “infomorphs running in some implant” describes the main ego pretty well. The way I imagine it, the Multitasking implant is essentially two mini-cyberbrains. When activated, it creates two new instances of the ego from the stack which then run in parallel with the main ego, but with constant contact – each sub-ego is aware of the thoughts and more importantly memories of the other two (think of it as a subliminal XP constantly running in the background). When the implant begins to reintegrate the forks, it's a lot quicker and easier than normal because the memories and changes are already present and partially integrated. All it needs to do is alter the perceived identity in the memory of the events and the forks fall into alignment (“It wasn't my fork that read that book, it was me”.) It doesn't need to work to find where those memory components are in the mind/brain because it watched them form. The reintegration time is irrelevant because it occurs as a constant, background process. This is also why I was thinking that the Ghostrider module could be altered to act as a makeshift Multi-tasker, but without granting the extra complex action because it isn't as specialized – too much runtime is for the neural tracking and integration systems.

Lorsa wrote:
I also figured that Mental Speed, as listed, doesn't really make sense in a cyberbrain, so made it biomorph exclusive.

That said, Transhuman presents Mental Speed as a software upgrade that can run in cyberbrains, which is better. It costs the same, but you can take it with you, so for Synthmorph entheusiasts it makes more sense.

—

In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?

Fri, 2014-05-16 11:25

Lorsa

ThatWhichNeverWas wrote:Lorsa

ThatWhichNeverWas wrote:
Lorsa wrote:
Where are the short-term forks run? Some simply say "in the implant" (making it essentially a 2x ghost-rider module) but that doesn't explain why you get your morph bonuses for actions performed with it. The morph bonuses in a biomorph comes from being in the actual body, if you have infomorphs running in some implant they shouldn't get to use 'em.
Why shouldn't egos in ghostriders use the morph's boni? I mean, “infomorphs running in some implant” describes the main ego pretty well. The way I imagine it, the Multitasking implant is essentially two mini-cyberbrains. When activated, it creates two new instances of the ego from the stack which then run in parallel with the main ego, but with constant contact – each sub-ego is aware of the thoughts and more importantly memories of the other two (think of it as a subliminal XP constantly running in the background). When the implant begins to reintegrate the forks, it's a lot quicker and easier than normal because the memories and changes are already present and partially integrated. All it needs to do is alter the perceived identity in the memory of the events and the forks fall into alignment (“It wasn't my fork that read that book, it was me”.) It doesn't need to work to find where those memory components are in the mind/brain because it watched them form. The reintegration time is irrelevant because it occurs as a constant, background process. This is also why I was thinking that the Ghostrider module could be altered to act as a makeshift Multi-tasker, but without granting the extra complex action because it isn't as specialized – too much runtime is for the neural tracking and integration systems.

That makes sense.... for a morph with a cyberbrain. In a biomorph there's no reason whatsoever why an ego in an implant would use morph bonuses. So yeah, a multitasking implant is basically two mini-cyberbrains linked to the main one. A ghostrider module however is just an extra computer to run egos on, it isn't sleeved in the morph per se so should require an eidolon to get bonuses. There's probably a reason why multitasking is more expensive than 2x ghostrider modules...

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Sat, 2014-05-17 10:33

ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture

Lorsa wrote:That makes sense.

Lorsa wrote:
That makes sense.... for a morph with a cyberbrain. In a biomorph there's no reason whatsoever why an ego in an implant would use morph bonuses. So yeah, a multitasking implant is basically two mini-cyberbrains linked to the main one. A ghostrider module however is just an extra computer to run egos on, it isn't sleeved in the morph per se so should require an eidolon to get bonuses. There's probably a reason why multitasking is more expensive than 2x ghostrider modules...

What gets me with the Ghostrider is that the bearer "...may allow them direct access to their sensory information, thoughts, communications, and other implants." That said, it does explicitly say that it carries an infomorph, so fair enough. I really don't get where you're coming from with the Multitasking restriction though. You can plug a cyberbrain into a biomorph and take advantage of it's boni, so why can't the Multitasking implant be wired in in a similar way?

—

In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?

Sat, 2014-05-17 18:14

#10

Lorsa

ThatWhichNeverWas wrote:[What

ThatWhichNeverWas wrote:
[What gets me with the Ghostrider is that the bearer "...may allow them direct access to their sensory information, thoughts, communications, and other implants." That said, it does explicitly say that it carries an infomorph, so fair enough. I really don't get where you're coming from with the Multitasking restriction though. You can plug a cyberbrain into a biomorph and take advantage of it's boni, so why can't the Multitasking implant be wired in in a similar way?

Yes, they do get access to all that. Sort of like a live XP. It isn't only the fact that there's no good explanation for why you'd get the morph bonuses, it is also very complicated to merge forks into a biobrain. It takes like 10 minutes AND requires an ego-bridge which is expensive. Are you telling me that a medium cost implant comes with an in-built expensive equipment? I think all these issues, where the forks are run and why they'd get morph bonuses and how they are merging into the brain, makes it difficult to see how it would work. There's still Mental Speed though, that actually can become useful if Multi-Tasking is off the table for biomorphs.

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Tue, 2014-05-20 08:02

#11

ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture

I am enjoying this discussion much too much.

Lorsa wrote:
...it is also very complicated to merge forks into a biobrain. It takes like 10 minutes AND requires an ego-bridge which is expensive. Are you telling me that a medium cost implant comes with an in-built expensive equipment?

I don't have a problem saying it contains a severely cut-down ego bridge that can only be used to integrate forks, and only those forks which run on built-in hardware with zero personality deviation. On the other hand, rereading the section on fork integration reveals that a Mnemonic implant can also be used to reintegrate forks. I can easily believe that the Multitasking implant has a cut down version of a low cost item. Reintegration time is a tricky discussion because it doesn't say why it takes 10 minutes in a biobrain. I don't have a problem with it because I imagine that most (if not all) of that time is mapping the changes between the fork's mindstates and calculating how to best sort them together, which the implant could feasibly do on the fly. That said, afaik the books don't actually say how long the Multitasking implant needs to reintegrate the forks, only that it does it automatically after max. 4 hours. So you could say that the biobrain version simply needs the 10 minutes.

—

In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?