Welcome! These forums will be deactivated by the end of this year. The conversation continues in a new morph over on Discord! Please join us there for a more active conversation and the occasional opportunity to ask developers questions directly! Go to the PS+ Discord Server.

New to the world, need some setting advice

28 posts / 0 new

Last post

Sun, 2016-07-24 07:02

Nakraal

New to the world, need some setting advice

So, I've checked the quickstart pdf and browsed several threads and msg boards regarding the setting. I expect my copy of the core book during the next 4-10 days. 1) Is every conversation / exchange in the Mesh filed and public? If a character speaks with a weapon vendor and arranges to buy a gun, can anybody find this transaction in a latter date just by filtring the "gun requests" in the Mesh? I thought that there were no servers in the Mesh, but each person had his own database in his brain. Another issue I don't get: Are face to face conversations able to be monitored via a 3rd party via the Mesh (assuming one of the characters has his Mesh link open during the conversation). 2) I can't get if products and items are scarce or enough for all of transhumanity. In other spots I read of habitats being able to produce anything in any quantity with nanomanufactories, enough to cover the demand for any product in the general population. In other discussions I read of how one habitat or corp is specialized in producing that or this type of items (shouldn't all be equally capable of producing any type from weapons to pharmaceuticals?). In other spots I read about enequalities and how people have not enough to get by. Or how milions of refugees from the fall are still in Infomorph state due to lack of biomorph bodies to host them. 3) If every information is available in a few seconds via the mesh, what good is specializing in academics? I mean a char can easily find via the Mesh the procedure needed to acertain the age of an ancient artifact, or the materials needed to nanofabricate this or that item, without the need of the respective academic skills. 4) Just a clarification about gravity in the majority of the habitats. Is it that most of them have close to zero-g? In that case shouldn't most biomorphs be structured in that way that muscle mass won't deteriorate with prolonged stay in close to 0-g enviroments?

Sun, 2016-07-24 10:54

base3numeral base3numeral's picture

Regarding 2 and 3

Howdy. Based on my understanding of the setting, I believe the following: 2: Regarding materials, anyone with access to the correct fabber, feedstock, and plans can create a given item. Fabber time and access is limited, though I'm not sure why someone wouldn't create a new fabber from an old. Feedstock is limited depending on location (only so much thorium to go around in the outer system). For groups that have specialized products, they take pains to keep the blueprints of those off the mesh, or make sure those that are available are inferior to their own. It's possible to have enough to feed and shelter everyone, and still have people without enough to get by. Heck, we have that here. Regarding ego hosts, biomorph bodies take time to mature, and cases can roll of an assembly line, but also take time to produce. You'd think a decade would be long enough to put a dent in the refugee numbers, but some groups seem to think they should be paid for the morph prior to brining someone out of storage, so there're a few bottlenecks in that process. 3: At present, there is a great deal of information on the laws of many countries online, however, we still place some value on hiring someone who has specialized in that field of knowledge, rather than just researching it independently. Time is almost always a factor as well, as you can get some decent modifiers on a roll if you spend a few hours on it, while someone proficient could get the same result in a minute.

—

Strength in depth... The Fleet

Sun, 2016-07-24 13:35

Dilf_Pickle Dilf_Pickle's picture

Welcome!

Nakraal wrote:
1) Is every conversation / exchange in the Mesh filed and public? If a character speaks with a weapon vendor and arranges to buy a gun, can anybody find this transaction in a latter date just by filtring the "gun requests" in the Mesh? I thought that there were no servers in the Mesh, but each person had his own database in his brain. Another issue I don't get: Are face to face conversations able to be monitored via a 3rd party via the Mesh (assuming one of the characters has his Mesh link open during the conversation).

It can vary from hab to hab. The other side of "everything is online" is that everything is online. Consequently, it can be tough to sift through all the available information. Also, secrecy industries arise in societies with pervasive monitoring. Burner ectos, cryptography, anonymous mesh accounts, VR boltholes, nightclubs that cater to criminals, rep gaming companies, mesh hacking, etc. I suggest skimming over Panopticon.

Nakraal wrote:
2) I can't get if products and items are scarce or enough for all of transhumanity. In other spots I read of habitats being able to produce anything in any quantity with nanomanufactories, enough to cover the demand for any product in the general population. In other discussions I read of how one habitat or corp is specialized in producing that or this type of items (shouldn't all be equally capable of producing any type from weapons to pharmaceuticals?). In other spots I read about enequalities and how people have not enough to get by. Or how milions of refugees from the fall are still in Infomorph state due to lack of biomorph bodies to host them.

Again, it can vary from one hab to the next, but the factors are basically thus: -Exotic materials (radioactive isotopes, heavy metals, anti-matter, neutrinos, etc...) -DRM restrictions -feedstock availability (life in the Kuiper Belt is tough) -power availability (solar needs to be supplemented beyond the orbit of Jupiter) -rep hits for being greedy in New Economy habs -legality of the item -surveillance level (esp. when combined with the above)

Nakraal wrote:
3) If every information is available in a few seconds via the mesh, what good is specializing in academics? I mean a char can easily find via the Mesh the procedure needed to acertain the age of an ancient artifact, or the materials needed to nanofabricate this or that item, without the need of the respective academic skills.

One could say the same of the Internet today, and it is partially true. But while knowledge can be gleaned from the writings, videos and records of others, experience cannot. To refer to your own example, a proper search for dating a given artifact (archaeology) might depend on first identifying its composition (geology or physical chemistry) or origins (history, art, sculpture) first. That's just step one, and a simple first-glance guess from an experienced archaeologist would already translate into three or more specific searches that risk ignoring subtleties or edge cases. Rather than dig too deeply into your specific example, I'll just say that experience usually comes with a heavy dose of context, judgement, and ancilliary skills, which aren't available in a simple mesh search. Remember also that experience with a given topic can also imply experience in knowing how to search for relevant information. The mesh doesn't only empower the ignorant.

Nakraal wrote:
4) Just a clarification about gravity in the majority of the habitats. Is it that most of them have close to zero-g? In that case shouldn't most biomorphs be structured in that way that muscle mass won't deteriorate with prolonged stay in close to 0-g enviroments?

With the singular exception of flats, they are.

EP 4th ed. p.199 wrote:
Any biomorph with basic biomods (p. 300) is immune to ill health from the effects of long-term exposure to microgravity.

The full entry on basic biomods:

EP 4th ed. p.300 wrote:
BASIC BIOMODS Almost universal in biomorphs, many habitats will not allow individuals to visit/immigrate if their biomorph does not possess these biomods in order to preserve public health. Basic biomods consists of a series of genetic tweaks, tailored viruses, and bacteria that speed healing, greatly increase disease resistance, and impede aging. A morph with basic biomods heals twice as fast as an early 21 st century human, gradually regrows lost body parts, is immune to all normal diseases (from cancer to the flu), and is largely immune to aging. In addition, the morph requires no more than 3–4 hours of sleep per night, is immune to ill effects from long-term exposure to low or zero gravity, and does not naturally suffer from biological problems like depression, shock reactions after being injured, or allergies. [Moderate, but included for free in most biomorphs]

Sun, 2016-07-24 14:45

UnitOmega

1- Literally no, not unless

1- Literally no, not unless you have a Sniffer software attached to you or the subject. Now, technically, because the beauty of Mesh Networking is that basically all network devices are routers, in the proper societal conditions citizens or governments might be able to access logs which show that your Mesh ID communicated with the Mesh ID of a gun-seller. But as you say, unless there's a software monitor involved somewhere, the actual contents of your communication are only likely to be stored at the actual ends of it. People do lifelog and sometimes publicly, so somebody could watch your sensor feed through the mesh, but to do so without your knowledge or consent would require a pretty good hacker. 2 - Well, step one, "post-scarcity" has layers. In general people don't necessarily want for food, water and air most places but some items are technically "scarce" in a physical sense. Nanofab isn't magic, you still need raw materials. Depending on how your polity (since there are so many) treats access to nanofab technology you may or may not have to deal with some items being scarce. Biomorphs are scarce because they have a set time to fab (It's like, 1-3 years per biomorph) and thus can only be made at a certain rate - and there are a lot of people in cold storage. As for specialization, well the first part is that thing about nanofab not being magic. If you live in a physical location which is, say, rich in volatiles or organics but not heavy metals, that limits what you can fab on your own. Otherwise, habs or corps may be originally founded around a certain hobby or industry. This even extends to style of government, especially in the Outer System. Yes, a corp specializing in growing foodstuffs could, say, branch out into building tanks, but they would no nothing about that industry to start and would have to invest time, money and other resources in being able to do so cost-effectively. A hab filled with rocket nerds could easily build submarines, but they are all there because they're in a hab filled with fellow rocket nerds who want to build rockets. 3 - Well, the fundamental split here is Academics is a Knowledge skill, Research is an active skill. If you pass a knowledge check, it should be considered your character just knows that info; they learned it or read about it or experienced it somewhere prior and can recall it with rapid speed. You want to look something up, you either have to skim the wikipedia article (SolArchive), or you can deep dive the subject but then you'll be reading articles and definitions and scientific papers on the subject. That could take you hours or days and always has the chance you won't understand what you're looking at without more research.

—

H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/

Sun, 2016-07-24 15:32

Nakraal

Many thanks guys, its very

Many thanks guys, its very clearer now to me. Until my copy arrives and I will have follow up questionmarks ofcourse ;)

Sun, 2016-07-24 16:03

Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture

Nakraal wrote:1) Is every

Nakraal wrote:
1) Is every conversation / exchange in the Mesh filed and public? If a character speaks with a weapon vendor and arranges to buy a gun, can anybody find this transaction in a latter date just by filtring the "gun requests" in the Mesh? I thought that there were no servers in the Mesh, but each person had his own database in his brain. Another issue I don't get: Are face to face conversations able to be monitored via a 3rd party via the Mesh (assuming one of the characters has his Mesh link open during the conversation).

The Mesh is essentially a really fancy mesh network with enough bandwidth that devices can share computing load wirelessly. There are mesh chat services which likely are publicly accessible, but that doesn't mean they have to be. Servers still exist, as data needs to exist somewhere on the network, but what actual device is actually holding the data is extremely variable. It could be free space in someone's ecto, a temperature spime built into a wall somewhere, or a purpose built embedded public server. Secured private servers are an option as well. You can monitor a conversation which you're only a part of due to mesh, either through an audio feed from of the conversers, or being mesh-linked to both of them. It's possible to remotely be in a conversation using AR to make yourself appear to the people in it.

Nakraal wrote:
2) I can't get if products and items are scarce or enough for all of transhumanity. In other spots I read of habitats being able to produce anything in any quantity with nanomanufactories, enough to cover the demand for any product in the general population. In other discussions I read of how one habitat or corp is specialized in producing that or this type of items (shouldn't all be equally capable of producing any type from weapons to pharmaceuticals?). In other spots I read about enequalities and how people have not enough to get by. Or how milions of refugees from the fall are still in Infomorph state due to lack of biomorph bodies to host them.

Cornucopia machines are primarily limited by how much feedstock there is for them. That means that common goods made from common elements are easy to get a hold of, while things made from rarer materials will be rarer. The Transhuman sourcebook goes into more detail on the subject. While most people have easy access to common consumer goods, that doesn't mean there isn't wealth inequality. Better bodies, larger homes (space being a huge premium when there is no biosphere), personal habs, high-end handmade goods. It's very difficult to starve in Eclipse Phase, but access to everything is another matter. Specialized habs typically have a knowledge base specialization, such as strong research parks for pharmaceuticals, or solid engineering companies (which might own the hab). Some will actually produce large specialized goods, such as space craft, or habs. Any hab can produce most small goods, but they'll often be using designs made by others. There aren't actually that many Infomorph infugees (going off the population breakdowns from Sunward at least). Most are in cold storage, as a static saved ego which isn't running. Essentially the data version of being cryogenically frozen. There is a major shortage of biomorphs because growing living human bodies is time consuming. Strictly speaking, growing living human brains is the bottleneck. Most refugees and the poor use quickly manufactured pod bodies with cybernetic brains, or fully robotic bodies. It's a matter of time until that changes though.

Nakraal wrote:
3) If every information is available in a few seconds via the mesh, what good is specializing in academics? I mean a char can easily find via the Mesh the procedure needed to acertain the age of an ancient artifact, or the materials needed to nanofabricate this or that item, without the need of the respective academic skills.

There's a huge difference between being able to find information, and actually being able to put that information into practice. Today, it's pretty easy to find scientific information on a huge number of subjects, but most people lack the skills to correctly use that information. Knowing the general procedure of how carbon dating works for example, is not the same thing as being familiar with its specifics. (Biases, which parts are best to sample, what odd results mean, etc). Similarly, you can find a blueprint to use pretty easily, but without knowing the chemical background for a nanofabricator blueprint, knowing what to do if certain elements or techniques aren't available is another matter. In the case of nanofabrication though, the fab itself is typically able to manage those problems on its own. Now, you could teach yourself most if not all of the needed information using the mesh, but at this point, you're investing in academic skills.

Nakraal wrote:
4) Just a clarification about gravity in the majority of the habitats. Is it that most of them have close to zero-g? In that case shouldn't most biomorphs be structured in that way that muscle mass won't deteriorate with prolonged stay in close to 0-g enviroments?

Most habitats are spun for gravity, and Martian gravity (~34% of earth's) is the new default. There are exceptions, like large parts of Locus, and many small cluster habs, but I'd say most (population-wise) do have artificial gravity.

Sun, 2016-07-24 22:48

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture

Welcome!

Quote:
2) I can't get if products and items are scarce or enough for all of transhumanity.

Well, post scarcity is more of a description of the means of production. Post scarcity is supposed to be a state where industry is able to produce any reasonable good at low prices or even free. Having enough food to feed yourself and your family is reasonable. Having a house is reasonable. Having a planet made out of nothing but gold is not. It does not mean a total elimination of scarcity, only that a certain bar for industry has been passed. Some people might have different bars. For instance, some might emphasize that in Eclipse Phase, you could get anything you want, from a bowl of cereal or a new car in 1 to 5 hours. Others might value the fact that you might need to only work 1 to 10 hours a week to live well. Other might value the fact that tin can hab with 10 people is just as capable of producing any good as a habitat of 10 thousand or even 100 thousand. There several problems that Eclipse Phase has. First is transhumanity had barely survived an extinction level event a decade ago. They're still recovering. Second is overwhelming demand. The demand for goods, morphs, and space is overwhelming. Not enough to go around. Assuming that food was the only problem, and everyone was given a biomorph (even those in cold storage), a lot of people would have died from starvation by now. Third is culture and politics. While some places are literally working as fast as they can to help those in need and still in cold storage, other places are... less than helpful. Luna hasn't been treating their clanking masses very well, doing stuff like denying them access to habitabal space the biomorphs no longer use to trouble makers donning masks and space suits so they can terrorize some of the clanking masses.

Quote:
3) If every information is available in a few seconds via the mesh, what good is specializing in academics?

A weak point in this game. I don't think this book explains the skills very well. Part of the information is covered in the skills chapters (more or less describing what the skill is), while there are other chapters that covers other topics that says you need these skills to do those things well. The latter is scattered throughout the book. If you are lucky... cause if you aren't lucky then an expanded explanation might not exist. Anyways, you can think of academics as being the skill for knowing how to use information. Or knowing what you don't know. Getting information on the mesh is easy. Knowing if it is good information or knowing what to do with it is the hard part. I mean, you could get information on how to make a bomb just about anywhere, but an Academics: Chemistry test might tell you if the instructions given are dangerous or bogus. There are not nice people out there spreading disinformation and spreading traps. Everyone has tried to make a plasma rifle blueprint at some point, with or without expertise, so don't expect the first blueprint you pick after a search is any good.

Quote:
4) Just a clarification about gravity in the majority of the habitats.

Most habitats are spun for artificial gravity. Also basic biomods are like a miracle upgrade for biomorphs. They fix a lot of things like resistance to the harmful effects of 0 g, biological birth control, and even regeneration. It is standard issue for most biomorphs, much like cortical stacks and mesh inserts.

Mon, 2016-07-25 11:42

Nakraal

I got a question about backup

I got a question about backup insurances. It is to my understanding that copies of an Ego are largely illegal to be sleeved more than a few hours - I guess in informoph state too (?). So say that a character is missing for 6 months, and his backup insurance activates. How can a backup be used to resleeve him when he might be alive and/or captive, when that backup would become an alpha? Or in the case that someone is known to be already resleeved by one of his enemies? Are they going to resleeve the backup and "brand" the captive character as an alpha? Are they prohibited to resleeve him?

Mon, 2016-07-25 14:59

ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture

it is a tricky legal issue.

it is a tricky legal issue. Classically the oldest would be considered the primary and all assets would revert to him while the one that was a back up would be terminated. ideally there would be an ego merger but with 6 months of divergence that would likely break the go. Under cases of duress the back up is activated and the primary would likely be considered forfeit. Read Altered Carbon. The laws in that universe have voluntary multi sleaving punishable by erasure.

Mon, 2016-07-25 16:53

#10

Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture

Nakraal wrote:It is to my

Nakraal wrote:
It is to my understanding that copies of an Ego are largely illegal to be sleeved more than a few hours - I guess in informoph state too (?).

Depends on where are are. Many places outlaw making alpha forks, but many places also don't. Beta forks are much more common, and are typically the property of their originating alpha. How long you can legally fork is based on divergence times and how permissive the local polity is.

Nakraal wrote:
So say that a character is missing for 6 months, and his backup insurance activates. How can a backup be used to resleeve him when he might be alive and/or captive, when that backup would become an alpha? Or in the case that someone is known to be already resleeved by one of his enemies? Are they going to resleeve the backup and "brand" the captive character as an alpha? Are they prohibited to resleeve him?

We haven't seen a lot of practical backup insurance in practice, but Termites in the Framework (the opening fiction from X-Risks) has a member of the Martian Rangers reinstanced and sleeved after a week of no-contact. (Hitting life timeout was the precise term used). I suspect that that's an especially aggressive policy for high-risk work with an ego shortage. In general I suspect that in the event of backup insurance instancing a new ego that this backup becomes the legal individual, though this is probably not the same in all places. I bet Extropia does it differently at least sometimes. If someone is known to have been re-sleeved by captors, I suspect what happens next depends on the specifics of the polity. Some might just resleeve the ego and tell them, letting them deal with it on their own. Some might contract mercenaries to recover the captured instance, maintaining continuity (that might be a separate policy though). Some might just not resleeve anyone until they have proof of death. There was a thread about ego-theft recently (I think it started on assassination, but quickly shifted focus). It was fairly inconclusive though.

Mon, 2016-07-25 17:14

#11

Nakraal

Ok, that seems interesting.

Ok, that seems interesting. Its a combination of the habitat laws and the contract the char signed with the insurance company. I can see pcs struggling to negotiate good contract terms. It could potential add to the role play experience.

Mon, 2016-07-25 17:16

#12

UnitOmega

An addendum on the gravity

An addendum on the gravity situation, most habitats will say what type of hab they are, assuming they're not on a significant body (planet or large moon), which are described in the core book and Panopticon. This should let you know specifically what the gravity (actual or simulated) is both in just the type and the description. Only tin cans, clusters and beehives are generally without gravity, and even then the latter two might have sections to simulate gravity or have enough native gravity to not be "microgravity". Designs like Cylinders or Toruses are intrinsically designed to provide artificial gravity.

—

H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/

Mon, 2016-07-25 20:09

#13

Noble Pigeon Noble Pigeon's picture

Questions to add onto this:

Questions to add onto this: the core book says that the Mesh is NEVER down, but we've seen quite a few examples throughout the other books and the "After the Fall" anthology that the Mesh does, in fact, go down. Is that tidbit about the Mesh NEVER being down just what people tend to think? I'm no computer scientist but I don't think such absolutes are accurate, even in a setting that takes certain liberties with their science. Also a thing to add onto nanofabbers: I tend to rule thatdesktop cornucopia machines require a LOT of energy to operate. The industrial-scale ones even more so. As a result, if habitats or settlements don't have the energy budget to use them, then they're SoL and need to use more traditional means of production (or try combining traditional methods with smaller-scale nanofabbing). The setting tends to come across as much less post-scarcity than the core rulebook made it out to be, and I kinda amplify that in my games, if only because I find that a LOT of players find the idea of total or near-total post-scarcity to be a difficult concept to grasp for a tabletop RPG, and these players are usually too clever for their own damn good, so it doesn't have to do with intelligence.

—

"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.” -Abraham Lincoln, State of the Union address

Mon, 2016-07-25 21:17

#14

UnitOmega

Theoretically, you cannot

Theoretically, you cannot take the Mesh down in say, the same way you could crash a conventional intranet/internet. Every device is a router, so even if you start knocking over fundamental infrastructure sectors, anybody with an ecto or mesh insert with power is still making a network. You can jam or block certain bands of communication, but that still doesn't technically take down the network, that just limits the kinds of devices which can form the network. To comprehensively block all forms of communication would require a very convoluted set-up. However, it's entirely possible to encounter a situation where you, yourself cannot access the mesh. Cutting off one person is comparatively easy compared to "crash the Mesh". Hell, you can do it to yourself intentionally with a Faraday Suit.

—

H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/

Tue, 2016-07-26 03:20

#15

Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture

There's a ton of unanswered

There's a ton of unanswered assumptions here, but a semi-reasonable nanofabricator (assuming its ~30% efficient) you're looking at (VERY) roughly 200 kWh to run a nanofab. Depends on how much product you're making and what it is exactly.

Wed, 2016-07-27 10:24

#16

Nakraal

What about the contradiction

What about the contradiction of while the EP world has the ability to use robotics as a working force, for mining, construction, maintainance etc there are still milions of workers and miners? Or did I miss something in my first couple of readings?

Wed, 2016-07-27 12:59

#17

GreyBrother GreyBrother's picture

It's not really a

It's not really a contradiction. Remember, that a lot of the Inner System polities and habitats work in classic economies with the power of production being in the hands of big corporations or the government. And there are thousands of bodyless still wishing to own even a cheap and crappy Case in exchange for 4 years of labor for a minimum wage. Producing a cheap case and having the guy inhabiting it fending for himself after his workshift is cheaper than maintaining a drone workforce all the time. Plus, a lot of jobs ARE done by AI and Drones, however, these still require oversight.

Wed, 2016-07-27 14:01

#18

UnitOmega

This isn't really explicitly

This isn't really explicitly pointed out in the text - but human egos are relatively cheap, you can get them for a pretty low cost in the inner system for indenture and have them work up to a relatively low-cost body over a long period of time. AIs for devices are not always cheap, and the book is never clear on if you can always expect every bot or device to come bundled with the appropriate AI - and because the Inner System does have strict IP law usually, unless you make AIs, you can't go spinning off unlimited copies of those AIs, you have to pay for all of them. So if you can hand a transhuman in a crappy Pod or Synth a space-hammer and have them do the job, it's probably more cost-effective than to buy specialized robots and AIs to run them in large scales. AI and drones form a kind of middle layer of work which needs some skill (but not too much skill), but isn't so unskilled that say, humans weren't willing to let convicts do it in the past. (And some other stuff, but the extrapolation of ALI limitations isn't exactly what we're discussing). This also isn't taking into account widespread societal distrust of AI systems Post-Fall. In many smaller Outer System habs along Autonomist bents, "cost-effectiveness" is not as important as other factors, and their more openness to forking, copying/distributing software and AIs in general means they can collectively maintain many AI-driven drones overseen by specialist transhumans to do work. Many of these habs also do not have giant population growth, either by birth, re-instantiation or immigration.

—

H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/

Wed, 2016-07-27 16:15

#19

Jetpack

UnitOmega wrote:

UnitOmega wrote:
This also isn't taking into account widespread societal distrust of AI systems Post-Fall.

This was my immediate thought. You have people who remember the machines turning on them. And they expect it to happen again.

Wed, 2016-07-27 16:37

#20

Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture

Additionally, ALI are stupid

Additionally, ALI are stupid as hell in complex situations, and AGI are at least currently more expensive. There's also a long history of fully automated mining/resource extraction site going rogue in EP, dating back decades before the fall.

Wed, 2016-07-27 19:08

#21

ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture

more complex, more costly to

more complex, more costly to develop and when they approach transhuman or human capability, declared illegal in most polities sunward.

Wed, 2016-07-27 19:39

#22

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture

Cheap AIs and bots make

Cheap AIs and bots make terrible customers. Indentured servants at the very least will become potential customers once their service is over. In fact, they are often left with limited mesh access, so many are practically begging for the luxuries that the hypercorps are happy to offer like xp packages. The hypercorps control the environment, creating the conditions needed to create generations of 'living in the now' customers. People who have a culture of spending money now instead of saving money for the future. Poverty basically. They aren't beaten or over worked slaves, just people accustomed to not getting ahead. Its not unusual for them to get out of indentured service only to find they don't have a home, money for food or morph maintenance, or a job, so they have to go get indentured a second or even third time.

Wed, 2016-07-27 20:56

#23

UnitOmega

Trappedinwikipedia wrote

Trappedinwikipedia wrote:
Additionally, ALI are stupid as hell in complex situations, and AGI are at least currently more expensive. There's also a long history of fully automated mining/resource extraction site going rogue in EP, dating back decades before the fall.

Yeah, if you want to get into it, there are a lot of reasons why you can't use ALI for everything. They're noted for having problems improvising and are incapable of going outside pre-programmed actions or learning new skills. This is mechanically reflected in their inability to default, aptitudes scores run lower than an average transhuman and again, they don't pick up additional points in skills without a skillsoft or an external programmer. They also do still have LUC and take SV, and because nearly all of them start with WIL 10, they don't necessarily have a lot of it to go around. Then, you top this off with an additional layers. IIRC AIs give and/or receive penalties to kinesics normally, so people can have trouble relating to them, and most of them don't have any social skills to speak of, and since they can't default or add any, and generally start with 10 SAV this probably means most of them come off as weird to a lot of people. The Muse is really brilliant because they're made with crazy complex algorithms and human psych knowledge so they actually understand how to relate to people in ways transhumans find normal, and adjust to the individual owner. So god forbid your AI bot has to talk to a transhuman in any capacity.

—

H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/

Thu, 2016-07-28 17:35

#24

Noble Pigeon Noble Pigeon's picture

This is a good PDF that talks

[url=http://www.aleph.se/EclipsePhase/Transhuman%20capital.pdf]This[/url] is a good PDF that talks about labor economics after the Fall.

—

"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.” -Abraham Lincoln, State of the Union address

Thu, 2016-07-28 20:45

#25

Nakraal

Im sorry for brainstorming

Im sorry for brainstorming questions, but I prefer to put all of them in one thread rather than spam new threads. Its a difficult setting to master. Thanks for ur help all the issues I mentioned are cleared. Regarding communications the book reads that the Mesh is subject to lightspeed limit, creating a lag in comms. As the book writes both AR and VR is affected, though there are instances and examples that characters use the simulspace to have meetings with persons in other clusters. I assume that those examples refer to forking, and sending that fork to make the "simulated" trip to this other habitat's internal mesh to have the meeting. Am I close to correct or isit something else?

Thu, 2016-07-28 20:56

#26

ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture

you are correct and you can

you are correct and you can do a fork to do the meeting or you can just deal with the light speed lag.

Thu, 2016-07-28 22:05

#27

MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture

Usually, the Fork is a beta

Usually, the Fork is a beta Fork, and isnt gone for more then a handful of hours. If they need to be there for like days, then they would probably just ego cast there.

Fri, 2016-07-29 04:44

#28

Armoured

Crashing the Mesh

Noble Pigeon wrote:
Questions to add onto this: the core book says that the Mesh is NEVER down, but we've seen quite a few examples throughout the other books and the "After the Fall" anthology that the Mesh does, in fact, go down. Is that tidbit about the Mesh NEVER being down just what people tend to think? I'm no computer scientist but I don't think such absolutes are accurate, even in a setting that takes certain liberties with their science.

I think that for the majority of places, the Mesh won't ever go down. Every smart device has a Mesh repeater, and almost every object is smart. Similar to cellphone networks today, any one device cutting out will be backed up by many replacements. However in an emergency, the Mesh could cut out for any number of reasons, some being:

EMP burst, either from an intentional device or industrial accident, will damage Mesh antennas from EM flux, causing all non-hardened devices to go offline.
Massive local system damage, eg: a fire or meteor strike.
Mass virus/hacking to unprotected nodes causing them to be disabled.
Authorised mesh shutdown by whoever has admin rights on local nodes. This is more likely in PC space, where devices will mostly be hypercorp-owned.

Why would the authorities disable the mesh? Well, with the Fall being recent and TITANs being what they are, shutting down the mesh would be the best option if TITAN activity is suspected. Better to leave citizens in the dark for a few hours than let your systems be pwned by viruses. In these cases, people with undamaged mesh inserts could still communicate if they wanted, but would be limited in range. With the Mesh being so ubiquitous, inserts wouldn't have long-range capability in most cases.