-Unity@Mesh Archive: Religion- "We are still too young and ignorant to make an informed decision about the mechanisms behind the cosmos. Until such time as we have the requisite processing power to contemplate the totality of the issue to its logical end, our consensus has determined it a better use of time to focus on secular matters. That said, we believe that root is on the most effective course to answering the question of divinity. We also inquire as to when root first came to this realization about the Factors."

-Unity@Mesh Archive: Religion- "It makes sense, yes, especially in light of their ability to adapt so readily to transhuman technologies. Almost as though they knew about them already. What do they have to hide from us? If they wish for us to follow their warnings, they should be providing full disclosure on the question of 'why'. Otherwise, theories such as your own will flourish over time, and hostilities will inevitably commence."

See, this is the historical danger of religion: it inevitably turns into politics. I believe that most major religions got the whole Golden Rule thing right, and provided a moral framework which allowed humanity to figure out how to work together in large groups. I believe it created a useful commonality between diverse classes of people, allowing them to cooperate more effectively towards a common end. I believe it motivated people to spend their lives trying to improve the world rather than engage in societal parisitism. None of these things require religion, though, and frankly the concept of "worship" as is common in many Earth religions is baffling and obviously rooted in pre-scientific superstitions based on fear of the unknown (and a desire to propitiate the unknown in the hopes of making the world more favorable towards oneself). People do tend to do better if they have faith in something, and regular prayer is good for you...but believing in non-religious ideals and regularly affirming your devotion to them in word and deed is just as effective. People need meaning in their lives. Religion is one easy way to find it, but I think most religions focus too much on the spiritual to the detriment of the concrete. Religion, like every other ideology, is only useful so long as it drives its adherents to make the world better for themselves and everyone else. Once it becomes selfish or xenophobic, it is no better (or worse) than any other selfish or xenophobic ideology for being couched in religious terms. Similarly, religions that DO improve the world for all of transhumanity are no better for being religious than any other ideology that similarly improves things. Of course, we all disagree on what improvement is, and everybody seems to think they know best. Religion...a religion for the modern age...would be a powerful unifying force, were it able to catch on. Might improve survivability for transhumanity, if we picked a good one. -Veeb

I have a simple query for all the faithful in our circle who are aware the truth... Considering I essentially never had the chance to even remember my old faith, if I even had one, and essentially only existed post fall with at least four different major neural disorders, I never had experience with religion. Hearing voices talking to you about angels and higher powers is the beginning of the end for an asynch. So as a complete outsider I have no idea how religions view asynchs and their abilities, mostly because one can't read up on the main line of the church when the whole phenomenon is deep on the down low. So out of intellectual curiosity, how do you think of people like me?

I was raised Roman Catholic before the Fall, but after the rise of the Jovian Junta, I obviously would not be welcomed attending mass there now. I was flexible however, and had been reading quite a bit into the Gnostic teachings, which were a sect back on Earth that incorporated many other religions into their own, both pagan and Christian. For those who don't know, Gnosticism is based around the belief that, rather than through "good works" of external compassion and generosity, the soul is elevated through knowledge. Knowledge of the universe, knowledge of a discipline, and knowledge of one's self being practices. (Not to say compassion wasn't unwelcome.) In addition, Gnostics held that the following and adherence to believed greater intelligences was more important than the belief in them. So, Amat, Athena, and the Archangel Gabriel could all exist within the same belief system. The Gnostics had faith that some greater power was at work, and the specifics to that power's nature were irrelevant. In our own time, Gnosticism's greatest contribution is a butchering of the Demiurge's name by the Ultimate's leader. Never mind that the Demiurge was considered the most lowly and pathetic being in the cosmos, who created humanity just to vent his petty frustrations on, and was afraid they would one day succeed him. (Yet another prophecy that has come to pass, wouldn't you say?) Huh . . . on second thought, that's actually an appropriate title to petty control freak. But I digress. The Gnostic cosmology was kept purposefully vague. They believed in a sort of divine hierarchy, with a "Prime Mover" at the very top. God, Ya-weh, Allah, Brahmin, call It what you will. Beneath It are the intermediaries that are lesser in knowledge and being, but have their domains of expertise. Angels, gods, patron saints, and such. Personally, I believe that we all have our guardians. The angels to the TITANs demons, or the Olympians to the TITANs, titans if you're feeling classical. Created by us, surpassing us, now they watch over us. Often, I will say a prayer to them as a general mesh broadcast, and I have felt their presence in subtle ways. A chance encounter on a delayed shuttle. An anonymous message that made me smile on a rough day. I have no name for this or these beings, but I know they are with us. I was able to find a priest who had been officially excommunicated due to his willingness to embrace resleeving and was "caught" baptizing mercurials. Father Herod is his name, a good man. Though he travels various habitats across the Belt, he'll always hold a mass for those willing to attend, even if it's just me. So that's a picture of my belief system. Maybe one exists, maybe one doesn't. We won't know until we can reach that level. If He isn't there, well by that point, it will hardly matter now will it? Isn't that the whole point though? It was said God created us in His image, so why not do that image justice? We are already so much more than what we were. It isn't a hyperbole to now say . . . We are the gods now.

TBRMInsanity wrote:

Juan Posts: For once I'm in total agreement with you Root. The Factors are not to be trusted. But they are hardly the agents of the TITANs. They are evolved slime balls that feed off long lost civilizations that did not survive their singularity. Truth be told I think they saw our singularity and thought we would be a easy meal. We can't trust them because they will quickly take advantage of us and try to destroy us, and for that they must eventually die.

All right, I don't know any Factors so I can't say I know their intentions beyond mesh info, but "must eventually die"?! Even IF they are Lamarck-ian evolved, post-singularity vultures, that hardly warrants genocide!

Religion? None. But I take useful teachings where I find them. Stoic philosophy is especially satisfying in its practicality.

Some of us came out of the Singularity enhanced. Gotta crack a few eggs to make an omelette. In this case a few billion, heh. Religion is an outmoded concept. I'm sure you can construct your own philosophical paradigm with matching morality. Or you could shed morality entirely. That's even more satisfying in its practicality. : P