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Meme-Propaganda and Memetic Attacks

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ssfsx17 ssfsx17's picture
Meme-Propaganda and Memetic Attacks
These terms came up frequently in Gatecrashing Do you think that these sorts of things are already rampant in today's world, or are the meme-attacks of Eclipse Phase still not yet realized?


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Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Meme-Propaganda and Memetic Attacks
I think we have seen nothing yet. People have always been trying to convince each other (consider rhetorics), but the first scientific study of persuasion was done post-WW II (much of the field of social psychology developed out of psychology researchers working for the US military during the war on propaganda operations). The advertising industry has done well without actually influencing consumers that strongly - when you actually measure the effects of marketing, the effects are often amazingly weak (since the marketer sells a product to a company, not the consumer it is more important to make the *company* think the marketing campaign works than actually make it work). Recently people have started doing neuromarketing, which so far seems to be marketing with added brainscans - not that much science in it. But it is not impossible that we will discover better forms of marketing. Maybe neuromarketing, maybe network analysis on social network datasets, maybe direct meme tracking in free text, does figure something out that improves marketing performance. It doesn't have to be super-effective to give a real advantage - and then everybody will copy it.
Extropian
fafromnice fafromnice's picture
Re: Meme-Propaganda and Memetic Attacks
meme i don't know for sure but in movie is pretty obvious, the first western made was clearly racist (birth of a nation, H.W. Griffith) the question is the movie was a product of is society or the society was made by the movie ... fo those of who who dosen't think racist are not in the movie anymore go watch Dance with the Wolf ... and probrably True Grit but i didn't see it yet and we keep going to cinema just for seeing more and more movies who are made on the same model of each other if this is not a meme's form ...

What do you mean a butterfly cause this ? How a butterfly can cause an enviromental system overload on the other side of a 10 000 egos habitat ?

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Meme-Propaganda and Memetic Attacks
fafromnice wrote:
if this is not a meme's form ...
Maybe 'movie' is a successful meme - people seem to like to watch moving pictures and come back for more - and movies certainly can propagandise certain views, but the actual content is all over the place. One should distinguish the content from the form. All movies (and other media, including this post) push a view, which if skilfully expressed is compelling to the recipients. Some media are better for transmitting certain views ("the medium is the message"), and some media tend to be used by particular groups. These days movies are only parts of larger marketing strategies. Merchandise, spin-off TV, comics and advertising from online sites bring in the bucks, and often the non-movie parts contain important aspects of the whole "package" (consider the Matrix trilogy, how the computer game actually is a kind of "Matrix 2.5" film, how the Animatrix and online comics sketch out the back story, and how a set of essays and later books on the philosophy of the movie ensured it got enough traction among the intellectual networks). But the kind of meme attack that we do not have yet is something like a YGBM hack. We have earworm tunes, but producing them is hit-or-miss even to professional pop producers. In EP, advertising has become so good that it is not far away from actual basilisk hacks (or contain them: maybe some marketing companies are hunting down such hacks and reverse-engineering them... Firewall gets nervous when their hack detectors start reacting to the latest ads for Rewire(tm) lifestyle enhancement medichines.)
Extropian
GreyBrother GreyBrother's picture
Re: Meme-Propaganda and Memetic Attacks
The basic definition of a meme is an idea, that spreads virally, mutating, further infecting others. Hence the term viral marketing. No, nothing on the directed scale EP experiences. But we have our Memetic Wars right now. For example, in Germany and Austria (or even Europe as a whole), many people feel besieged by "American culture", as TV shows, franchises (McDonalds), cultural ideas (Halloween, Santa Clause) seem to threaten the locals view of their culture. As a counterattack, the famous austrian newspaper "Krone" regularly celebrated the "Christkind" (Child Christ, meaning Baby Jesus) as opposed to Santa Clause, who most people view as "American" and even claim, that he was invented by Coca Cola (Fun stuff: He probably got his red coat from Coca Cola, but Saint Nikolaus is actually more "traditional" here than baby jesus will ever be). There are even support groups, trying to supress the Santa Clause-Meme.
Breedlove Breedlove's picture
Re: Meme-Propaganda and Memetic Attacks
As guy said above me, memes are ideas but they are compared to "genes" only they affect a large number of people (in fact it's almost like a large number of people acting as one organism- yay stand alone complex ghost in the shell) so yes, memes are around and from a certain perspective have always been around. But with our ever increasing communication and exchange world these "memes" may become more apparent as people can't help but conform (and so create further number of mass social identities). Perhaps memes have always been used but only recently are we becoming aware of our utilization of them. Memes are very interesting but what they imply is so much more interesting: the idea of a gestalt conscious amongst us- why are certain bits of information "viral"? Why do we react in common to certain elements or ideas? (seems to suggest a human condition of sorts- or perhaps just a sentient one)
fafromnice fafromnice's picture
Re: Meme-Propaganda and Memetic Attacks
Oh My God ! i hope your not Fox News Fan www.alternet.org/story/149193/null

What do you mean a butterfly cause this ? How a butterfly can cause an enviromental system overload on the other side of a 10 000 egos habitat ?

fafromnice fafromnice's picture
Re: Meme-Propaganda and Memetic Attacks

What do you mean a butterfly cause this ? How a butterfly can cause an enviromental system overload on the other side of a 10 000 egos habitat ?