I'm planning a new game centred around Saturn, and I found myself wondering a lot about Kronos Cluster - what it's for, who lives there and what they do all day, and why don't they leave...?
But most of all, what the spaceport is for.
The corebook and Rimward writeups talk a lot about people coming to Kronos primarily for either a) crime, b) tourism, or c) crime tourism... but it seems like most of that would involve farcasting rather than actual physical travel. So who brings spacecraft into Kronos spaceport? What for? Is it a stopoff/refuelling depot on the way to somewhere more significant? Is most of the port traffic mad scientists and terrorists importing nanomachinery and nuclear weapons?
I guess to a certain extent this is part of a larger discussion about how relevant space-travel and trade are in a setting where nanofabbers and farcasters are a thing, but to go back to the point: Kronos, huh. What is it good for?
Suggestions please!
Welcome! These forums will be deactivated by the end of this year. The conversation continues in a new morph over on Discord! Please join us there for a more active conversation and the occasional opportunity to ask developers questions directly! Go to the PS+ Discord Server.
Kronos Cluster spaceport
Sun, 2014-11-23 14:53
#1
Kronos Cluster spaceport
Mon, 2014-11-24 19:52
#2
Well, having re-read it...
Well, having re-read it...
Kronos is basically an unbelievable criminal shithole, and it's orbiting Saturn itself, not at like, one of the far-out Lagrangian points. I can't think of any good reason the Titanian Navy hasn't sailed in and restored order, returning it to the control of the local Anarchists and what Extropian ventures haven't been completely suborned by the gangs, except that they have good reason to believe the Ultimates who took over the place in the first place have a Hydrogen's Promise planned in the event that they do.
Seriously, like [i]nobody[/i] in the Autonomist Alliance would raise any objections if they ousted a group of brutal Ultimate thugs and criminal cartels, providing that they then didn't force a hierarchy on those who were left. And anarchists - hell, even fucking Extropians - make better neighbors than brutal thugs.
As for who brings spacecraft to Kronos, well...
Ultimates, obviously, are the first ones who come to mind. I imagine they find the Ultimate-run KPA (Beware of hiring mercenaries to restore order, they may decide to just take your shit over; a lesson Fa Jing should really pay attention to,) a friendly entity where they can stop off and refuel and probably get some other Ultimate-type services away from their tin can.
Consortium-affiliated vessels probably find Kronos more inviting to them than anywhere under Autonomist control, and it seems likely that not only would Kronos be the go-to port of call for any Consortium or LLA-flagged vessels, it'd also be the perfect spot for any of their agents provocateur, spies, or highly-trained assassins to stop off and get on a Titanian commercial vessel which operates on the shadier side of legitimate to head to Titan for some good old-fashioned espionage. Ironically, this would also make Kronos a good port-of-call for Consortium or LLA citizens who want to be Titanian citizens who are permitted to travel but not to egocast, nor permitted to travel to Titan itself. (Assuming for whatever reason they can't just find their way onto the Get Your Ass to Mars swarm.)
The Titanian criminal elements would also find Kronos an inviting place to stock up some illegal shit, if they somehow found enough credits to make going there anything but a quick invitation to get shanked. I believe there's some shady ways to swap Kroner for Credits, though.
And of course, if you want to disappear, Kronos is specifically called out as a good place for that. Which also means it's a place professional ego hunters are likely to go to hunt their prey.
—
Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name.
[url=http://tinyurl.com/mfcapss]My EP Character Questionnaire[/url]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/lbpsb93]Thread for my Questionnaire[/url]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/obu5adp]The Five Orange Pips[/url]
Tue, 2014-11-25 07:06
#3
MysteryCat wrote:The corebook
First of all, it's worth keeping in mind that the Saturn system is heavily inhabited, and compared to the distances between major planets in the Solar System, everything in the Saturn system is very close together. Therefore, the relative costs of physical travel and electronic travel between Saturning bodies is much reduced, which would make physical travel a more feasible option for people who don't want to go through the stress, unease, trauma, and mental exhaustion of resleeving.
Secondly, Rhea is primarily an ice moon, and may even potentially have liquid water subsurface oceans. This makes it likely that Rhea would be a highly lucrative refueling point in the outer Saturn system, possibly supplying Titan and/or the Titanian Navy with drinking water and reaction mass. (This would be a good reason for why Titan doesn't move in against the KPA, and don't let anyone else do it either; they don't want to risk the water-extraction infrastructure that gives them cheap access to water.)
Which, to address your idle thoughts: farcasters can only transport information, and nanofabbers can only assemble things from raw materials. You still need to supply the nanofactory with usable raw materials and power (molecular [i]disassembly[/i] is extremely energy-intensive). This would imply that there's a market for trade in physical raw materials. Water/ice for drinking water and spaceship reaction mass. Large amounts of carbon for diamond, carbon nanotubes, and graphene for construction. CHON for organic molecules such as plastics. For food, you'd need supplies of chlorine, magnesium, phosphorous, potassium, sodium and a wide variety of trace minerals. For non-explosive nanomachines, you need aluminium. Maybe some gold for electronic components, etc. This isn't something you can teleport into place, so you'll need spaceships to transport it, and spaceports to load and unload the spaceships efficiently.
—
@-rep +2
C-rep +1
Tue, 2014-11-25 10:47
#4
I gotta prepare a Fleet
I gotta prepare a Fleet Intelligence game that involves infiltrating and wiping out the KPA now.
—
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Fri, 2014-11-28 09:38
#5
Ooh, careful with that.
Ooh, careful with that. Messing with a well established hierarchy of gangs and armed militias could make things far more violent than they already are.
What's interesting is how Kronos is presented as almost an anti-Locus. It didn't grow or adapt to the fallout of The Fall and became the "might makes right " anarchist stereotypes. I've been trying to piece together how it's "cluster of grapes" architecture works. It occurred to me that that may have had an effect on how the cluster evolved . The port and presumably the modules and branches fabrication facility centralize a lot of authority into whoever's in charge of them- you get to determine what comes in and what expansions are made to best keep your spaceport monopoly intact. A tactical choke point obviously not lost on the Ultimates!
—
Current Status: Highly Distracted building Gatecrashing systems in Universe Sandbox!
Fri, 2014-11-28 11:09
#6
Chernoborg wrote:Ooh, careful
Depends. Do they plan to just wipe out the biggest, scariest mothers in town, the guys who've been keeping everyone else suppressed, then fuck off and call it a job well done? Because that's [i]totally[/i] going to lead to worse violence and power struggles.
If wiping out the KPA is the prelude to a general invasion by the Titanian military in the interests of restoring order at gunpoint, it could work. Basically, they'd need to shoot all the Ultimates and the gangs and let the Anarchists take control.
—
Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name.
[url=http://tinyurl.com/mfcapss]My EP Character Questionnaire[/url]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/lbpsb93]Thread for my Questionnaire[/url]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/obu5adp]The Five Orange Pips[/url]
Sat, 2014-11-29 05:03
#7
My thoughts are that the PCs
My thoughts are that the PCs are Fleet Intel handlers, preparing the place for a gentle transition out of the hands of what seem to be a (more noxious than usual) group of Ultimates. So it would involve soft power moves. Depending on the players, it could also be the mess you guys foresee.
—
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Mon, 2014-12-01 18:51
#8
Don't get me wrong, it's a
Don't get me wrong, it's a great idea for a long term adventure. Even better is it's the kind of story that doesn't involve the fate of humanity - unless you want it to.
It occurs to me that since the habitat doesn't have artificial gravity Kronos has to have biomorphs shipped in. This is another reason for the spaceport -and- a potential avenue of infiltration.
—
Current Status: Highly Distracted building Gatecrashing systems in Universe Sandbox!
Thu, 2014-12-04 10:31
#9
Ah! Now we see the violence inherent in the system!
Once again the Anarchist Hegenomy gives lie to their supposed support of personal liberty! Oh, it's all well and good so long as you toe the line, but when presented with a society that lives outside their narrow, old-world conceits of ethics and morality, they show their true colours by using military action and infiltration to spread their narrow-minded philosophy by the sword!
It's time to take a stand against the Anarchists and their Adhocratic Imperialism! Spread the word, and join in the defence of this bastion of alternative morality! Tell them once and for all that true liberty is not subject to the bounds of societal approval!
For Kronos! Just because what we do is illegal, doesn't mean that it's wrong!
*This message was brought to you by the Saturnian Cultural Relativism Society.
—
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few.
But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
Thu, 2014-12-04 11:48
#10
Technically, the Titanians
Technically, the Titanians are Technosocialists, not Anarchists, they just stress egalitarianism/widespread democracy and the new economy, which is why they are Autonomists rather than Hypercapitalists. They have a government and bureaucracy and thus hierarchies.
—
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Fri, 2014-12-05 16:29
#11
uwtartarus wrote:I gotta
You'll be happy to know there's an entire chapter on Titanian intel agencies going into Firewall, then. (They're evil bastard Titanians, btw... I went kind of Blindsight-y with 'em).
—
J A C K G R A H A M :: Hooray for Earth!
http://eclipsephase.com :: twitter @jackgraham @faketsr :: Google+Jack Graham
Fri, 2014-12-05 18:40
#12
Awesome!
Awesome!
—
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Sat, 2014-12-06 13:39
#13
Won't ask about the release
Won't ask about the release date...Won't ask about the release date...Won't ask about the release date... :)
—
Current Status: Highly Distracted building Gatecrashing systems in Universe Sandbox!
Sat, 2014-12-06 17:28
#14
MysteryCat wrote:
As already pointed, nanofabbers need two things: raw materials and power (and templates, that's three things... ;) ). As it happens, Inner System is low on water (and volatiles) and Outer System is low on heavy elements. So we either have fleets of freighters coursing to and fro with raw supplies or haulers that bring entire asteroids (or iceteroids) where needed.
As of farcasting: to be able to do it you need sending station, receiving station, clear path between them and... well, some morph to sleeve into (if you don't want to rely on infomorph/robotic shell). As biomorphs can't be just nanofabbed you have to grow them in vats and physically distribute around the System.
There is more to egocasting (and communication) though: some information *really* must be sent securely. That means that on both communicating nodes you need cubit reservoirs and they must be physically (and periodically) delivered to stations that want to make QE transmission. Arguably, all egocast transmission would require sending some information (like certificates, encryption keys) by QE and that means that each egocaster (at least secure one) would have a directory of possible destinations just like Pandora Gate. And that means that to reach some remote, obscure destination you have to engage in several egocasting "hops" through communication hubs. That could mean several sleeving (into infomorph) for customs procedure and such. Well, sometimes it could be preferable to get to the destination the old-fashioned way: by spaceship.
Last thing: in my humble opinion, the nanofabbers are wonderful technology, very in the way of the Toffler's "third wave". It permits lone few brinkers to live comfortably in a middle of nowhere, eases space travel accomodations and so forth. But for large-scale production it is simply inefficient. Imagine zillions on nanobots working to build your thingy atom-by-atom. Daunting. It is flexible, it allows customization, it could be cost-effective if you want complicated, interwoven designs but a fabber will deliver each thing quite *slowly*. It isn't the speed even remotely close to that of old-fashioned production line. And it can produce only one product a time - how many fabbers there is in a household? It wouldn't be good to chose: should we make meal or clothes? Yes, there could be fabbing services but they too have some output that cannot be exceeded.
Now, imagine you have to feed few millions of biomorphs - would you produce the food out of atoms or by wholesale industrial process? And medications? Same with all the things that are quickly spent, needed in great quantities, similar or are easy to produce on production line (like having simple internal structure). Also, that doesn't mean finished products, it could be semiproduct that is then shaped in low-grade maker (like food pulp).
So, it is still efficient to have a factory and transport its products around the System. For that you still need a fleets of freighters and hypercorps like Comex. Comex also transports precious items that should not be disassembled and sent as information to remote assembler: various samples, original art, vanity items and such.
As you can see, there are still many reasons for space-faring couriers and freighters and for spaceports to serve them.
Tue, 2014-12-09 10:39
#15
Ahh, humor.
Yes, I was trying to lampshade the inherent absurdity of an Janteloven-based society of technosocialists employing military might to dictate the local government of an independent settlement, especially so when that settlement is essentially "Space-Vegas", and simultaneously imply that the suggestion would have come from either the local anarchists or titanians who are members of the anarchist faction, all presented as a humorous "rant" to make sure no-one mistook it for a personal attack.
And now I have explained the joke. It's dead now. You killed it.
*Insert angry fist waving here*
—
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few.
But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
Tue, 2014-12-09 18:57
#16
But it spawned the term
But it spawned the term 'adhocratic imperialism', for which we shall be forever grateful.
Also (belatedly) thanks for all the thoughtful replies re: spaceports, imports and such. A lot to digest.