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How much can you really mix with DMSO?

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Sat, 2010-10-30 14:15
#1
Teryn Teryn's picture
How much can you really mix with DMSO?
It says "any chemical agent" but should you really be able to mix it with something like scrapper's gel or liquid thermite? That seems to have far too much potential for being broken.
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Sat, 2010-10-30 17:43
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: How much can you really mix with DMSO?
Teryn wrote:
It says "any chemical agent" but should you really be able to mix it with something like scrapper's gel or liquid thermite? That seems to have far too much potential for being broken.
Not if you know what DMSO does. Basically, it allows a chemical to be absorbed through the skin... DMSO's primary function is medicinal in nature. It can also be utilized with chemicals that normally have to be ingested, injected or inhaled, potentially allowing those chemicals to work on contact instead. This really wouldn't be too advantageous for scrapper's gel or liquid thermite. Once absorbed by the skin, both compounds would likely dissipate into your body and become far too diluted to be ignitable. At best, they might act like toxins once they hit the bloodstream
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Sat, 2010-10-30 17:54
Teryn Teryn's picture
Re: How much can you really mix with DMSO?
Ok, I can see how it would be kinda ineffective with those two. So it really is that effective on carrying almost any chemical?
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Sun, 2010-10-31 06:39
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: How much can you really mix with DMSO?
Teryn wrote:
Ok, I can see how it would be kinda ineffective with those two. So it really is that effective on carrying almost any chemical?
Yes, it is a very effective solvent that has the interesting effect of penetrating membranes without damage. When properly mixed with a solvent, both chemicals can penetrate a membrane. Even with drugs that already have topical properties, DMSO can speed the absorption rate. Look up dimethyl sulfoxide on the net for more information (yes, it really exists).
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Mon, 2010-11-01 23:16
T.S. T.S.'s picture
Re: How much can you really mix with DMSO?
To be clear, DMSO is a presently existing chemical agent. In the late 60s some folks in various parts of the California Bay Area (Santa Cruz or so up through San Francisco) used to mix it with liquid LSD, stick it in squirt guns, and then shoot the t-shirts of passers' by announcing, "Hey dude, you're tripping now!" A number of athletes have gotten in trouble for using DMSO to directly transport painkillers into aching joints. Truly immediate relief, but it eventually leads to tissue breakdown. Less of a problem for transhumans.
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Thu, 2010-11-04 00:01
Rhyx Rhyx's picture
Re: How much can you really mix with DMSO?
I wonder if nanites are small enough to benefit from the effect of DMSO? I know that with nantite today the biggest problem is actually getting them to where they need to go (no locomotion) They have even used strong magnets to drag them to trouble spots in the body as targeted medicine but this might be a good way of getting there where they are going.
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Thu, 2010-11-04 06:01
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: How much can you really mix with DMSO?
Penetration enhancers (DMSO is just the most well-known, see http://www.laserandskin.com.au/pdf/penetration-3.pdf ) seem to be able to allow molecules up to 10 kiloDaltons (~10,000 atoms) to penetrate the skin better. http://www.nature.com/nbt/journal/v22/n2/abs/nbt928.html So this means nanomachines are likely too large. 10 nm nanoparticles can passively get in to the outer layers of the skin, into hair follicles but not penetrate skin on their own. http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v127/n7/abs/5700733a.html On the other hand, pretty big 320 nm nanoparticles seem to fit nicely into hair follicles, http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.ejpb.2006.10.019 Hmm, with active nanomachines one might do a "super-DMSO" that actually penetrates. Pathfinder nanomachines penetrate tight junctions, remodel the intercellular matrix, move cells temporarily aside and drag in whatever stuff you want. Likely not entirely irritation-free (unless you mix in analgetics), but allows you to get skin penetration of nearly anything.
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Thu, 2010-11-04 11:54
Teryn Teryn's picture
Re: How much can you really mix with DMSO?
Interesting idea. I remember reading a Timothy Zahn novel that had bacteria that could carry cadmium used as an assassination weapon. EP could probably do something like that with nanobots easy.
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Tue, 2010-11-09 13:47
The Doctor The Doctor's picture
Re: How much can you really mix with DMSO?
T.S. wrote:
To be clear, DMSO is a presently existing chemical agent. In the late 60s some folks in various parts of the California Bay Area (Santa Cruz or so up through San Francisco) used to mix it with liquid LSD, stick it in squirt guns, and then shoot the t-shirts of passers' by announcing, "Hey dude, you're tripping now!"
Lysergic acid crypto-ethylene, it is supposedly called (thank you, Abby Hoffman). I cannot attest to whether or not it is plausible because I have not had the time recently to sit down and work through the reaction to see what it would produce.
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Tue, 2010-11-09 16:41
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: How much can you really mix with DMSO?
According to this https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:yH0u_zzZKx0J:www.e... it might be hard to achieve for many drugs, since the active dose is many milligrams, and that is hard to get through the skin. Still, LSD is active in microgram doses, and that might be enough. This thread http://forums.mycotopia.net/botanicals-cactus-misc-entheogens-psychedeli... seems to suggest some people have tried it with success, although they "cheated" by using mucous membranes.
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Extropian
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Thu, 2010-11-11 23:06
lucyfersam lucyfersam's picture
Re: How much can you really mix with DMSO?
LSD will absorb through mucous membranes without DMSO, I would suspect DMSO would allow it to absorb through the skin and still be effective, but I haven't carefully looked at the chemistry. Other highly lethal toxins would be viable via DMSO (Ricin D, TTX, Botulinum), larger dose toxins would be less effective but for game it's just easier to let any drug work with it (and better from cinematic perspective by and large).
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