Welcome! These forums will be deactivated by the end of this year. The conversation continues in a new morph over on Discord! Please join us there for a more active conversation and the occasional opportunity to ask developers questions directly! Go to the PS+ Discord Server.

How many points to build average Joe

11 posts / 0 new
Last post
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
How many points to build average Joe
I'm wondering if anyone has benchmarked the average point cost of thier NPC's or what power level would you give the man on the street? Also do some locales have more powerfull average characters than others? For now I'm thinking: Aptitude points, 85 Starting moxie, 1 + (back ground moxie) Credit... I really don't know, probably none in outer system locations Rep; 25 (inner system), 40 (outer system) CP points, 700 for skills, specializations, and gear (maximum 25 pts on gear. minimum 300 pts on Knowledge skills.) Alternately; NPC's are the same as PC's?

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
Considering a bachelors
Considering a bachelors degree level skill is 40 and only 30% of the USA has a bachelors level education....a lot less than that to model a modern day USAian. Adjust from there to your image of the Eclipse Phase everyman. EDIT: From looking at NPC File 1:Prime no more skilled than the typical Muse: Indentured Infugee A typical infugee, freshly instantiated into an owned sleeve, is not yet at home in their new time or society, but still retains knowledge, skills, and memories from their earlier life. They may in fact possess highly specialized knowledge or memories that could shed light on mysteries the PCs otherwise might not be able to crack. cog 20 coo 10 int 10 ref 10 sav 15 som 10 wil 15 mox 2 Morph: Case Skills: Interests: (Choose one) 50, Interfacing 40,Networking: Hypercorp 30, Perception 30, Profession: (Choose one) 40, Scrounging 35 Rep: c-rep 10 Traits: Lemon, Social Stigma (Clanking Masses) Enhancements:Access Jacks, Basic Mesh Inserts,Cortical Stack, Cyberbrain, Mnemonic Augmentation Gear: Tools appropriate to their current job
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
LatwPIAT LatwPIAT's picture
Because Eclipse Phase is a d%
Because [i]Eclipse Phase[/i] is a d% roll-under system, it's pretty easy to compare it to BRP, or more specifically, [i]Call of Cthulhu[/i]. Now, the EP Core states that modern-day average aptitudes is 10, while transhuman average is 15. Conveniently, most stats in CoC average 10.5. Further, CoC characters have on average 400 skill points to put into skills. If we ignore for a moment that in CoC you don't get your stat as a baseline for every skill, this means a modern-day human being can be statted up using 70/75-ish aptitude points and 400 CP for us on skills. The transhuman average, meanwhile, would have +5 to everything based on aptitudes, of which INT and EDU are the ones that provide skill points; 20*EDU an 10*INT, for a total of 150 extra skill points. This adds up to 105 aptitude points and 550 CP for use on skills.
@-rep +2 C-rep +1
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
The average transhuman has
The average transhuman has average aptitude scores of 11-15 p. That's a bit lower than an average of 15 right? Say 85-90 550 would be enough CP to buy 40 ranks (competency) in 20 different skills, or buy 60 ranks (doctoral expertise) in 8 different skills. I'm not sure I believe the average person in the setting is that well versed.

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

LatwPIAT LatwPIAT's picture
What a specific value in
What a specific value in Eclipse Phase means is at times unclear. 20 is supposed to mean a basic operator's proficiency, but the listed examples include a high-school diploma (2-3 years of near full-time work, building on a body of knowledge learned through about a decade of education), a driver's licence (between less than a year and 2 years of regular training), and a gun permit (no training at all, depending on location) The same applies to a skill-level of 40, which is "basic professional certification", and includes a college diploma (3-5 years of part time to full time education, depending upon location), and army rifle certification (half a year of training, depending upon the army) The US Army Field Manual notes that taking a good shooter and training them to be a cold killer is a lot harder than taking a cold killer and training them to be a good shooter (paraphrased), yet being a marksman (60) is as difficult as getting a PhD (which takes, oh, three years or so?). [i]NPC File 1: Prime[/i] has an Arms Dealer sample NPC. This NPC has 75 in using submachines guns. This means they have "had unique innovations or insights". Likewise, the sample Assassin NPC, the kind of NPC that's supposed to represent an assassin your players might run across? They're a "system-renowned authority" on the use of sniper rifles, knife fighting, the art of shadowing, and dealing with criminals. The generic body-guard has invented (or dismissed) unique martial arts techniques (Grappling 70). Perhaps more importantly, because Aptitudes are added to skills, the average character starts at a quite high level when sleeved in a morph: the average transhuman (15-ish COG) sleeved in an Exalt? The equivalent of a high-school diploma in Physics and Chemistry, Mathematics, History, their mother tongue, and one more language (fair enough, I have that), [i]and[/i] Biology, Economics, Psychology, Computer Science, Theatre, Art, Music, [i]every single branch of sport[/i] and all languages, spoken or dead, [i]including neo-Cetacean[/i]. (This is the fault of the defaulting-rules! You can't default [i]ancient Sumerian[/i] if you only speak English, let alone Japanese!) To further illustrate my point, I'll attempt to build an Army Medic. Melissa Stephenson enlisted in the army some time before the fall, where she learned basic firearms competency in small-arms, grenade launchers, anti-tank missiles, vehicle-mounted weapons, throwing hand-grenades, fighting with a bayonet and hand-to-hand fighting (Kinetic Weapons, Seeker Weapons, Gunnery, Throwing Weapons, Unarmed Combat, Fray @ 40, Blades (Knives) @ 30). She also learned to drive cars and trucks while under fire (Pilot: Groundcraft @ 40). The military also trained her in the use of maps, moving stealthily and commanding a squad (Navigation, Infiltration, Profession: Squad Tactics @ 40), and, after all, she was going to be an army [i]medic[/i], so she has the required knowledge (Academics: Biochemistry, Academics: Biology @ 40), as well as years of experience as a paramedic (Medicine: Paramedic @ 50). So far, I've spent 375 points building Melissa Stephenson. Melissa comes for Alsace-Lorraine, and hence speaks German as her native tongue, and also speaks English and German fluently (Language: English, Language: French @ 50). At high-school, in addition to Biology, she also studied chemistry, mathematics, literature, history and theatre (Academics: Chemistry, Academics: Mathematics, Academics: Literature, Academics: History, Art: Theatre @ 20) That's 475 points. Which is about 75 points shy of 550 points. But Melissa isn't a transhuman! She's baseline like you and me! So instead of an average of 15-ish to all aptitudes, she has an average of 10-ish. So that's 5 more CP for the 21 skills I just gave her! Which puts her at 580 CP, building a modern-day army medic. I'm pretty sure I'm not too off the mark for how many CP the average person can be built with. :P
@-rep +2 C-rep +1
NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
My friend was an army medic.
My friend was an army medic. They didn't teach him driving (he already knew). No bayonets nor gunnery. No maps, no stealth, no command skills. He couldn't have passed the lowest level college biochem or biology class with what they taught him....that's not really EMT stuff. He qualified on an M-16, SMG, and grenades. He was issued a SMG. Just trying to provide some perspective. P.S. The hyperlinguist trait gets you languages at 1/3 the CP cost, right?
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
LatwPIAT LatwPIAT's picture
I shall admit to not knowing
I shall admit to not knowing anything about what it entails to be an army medic... ^_^; However, if I try to build her as a generic soldier, i.e. without the medicine skills, but instead a person who drives a Light Utility Vehicle, I'd imagine they'd have many of the same skills and thus ends up at about 390 skill points at least. Not to mention they might be trained in maintenance of their vehicle! (Different armies train their soldiers in different things. In the Norwegian army, arctic warfare is commonplace [and unavoidable half the year!], while in other armed forces, it's a specialty. For the record, I mostly guessed as to what a soldier might be trained in, but the US Army, which conveniently lists what recruits are trained in on their website, notes they're trained in the use of grenades, rifles, anti-tank missile launchers and machine guns. And wikipedia has an image of US Army recruits training with bayonets. And the Australian army has recruits run around in the field with plastic replica guns with fake bayonets on them, according to their website. So at least one army trains their recruits in the use of several kinds of weapons.) With regards to the hyperlinguist trait, it only reduces the time it takes to learn the language, and the REZ, not how many CP it costs. And it also gives a +10 bonus to languages you don't know. Which means that if you have the hyperlinguist trait, and invests 5 CP in, say, ancient Sumerian, you'll have skill-rolls for that at 20-ish, while a language you [i]don't[/i] invest any points in, like Iroquois, you roll against 25-ish. (15 default +10). The rules can, at times, be amusing. (Also, if you manage to get 40 INT and Hyperlinguist at the same time, you can read any language you don't know like you were fluent in it.)
@-rep +2 C-rep +1
NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
I'll ask him about the
I'll ask him about the bayonets and heavy weapons. It's possible they had him shoot a rocket once, which he didn't consider "training" so he didn't mention it or it's possible they just skipped those things for med specialists.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
LatwPIAT LatwPIAT's picture
Hey, for all I know, the US
Hey, for all I know, the US Army considers firing a rocket once as training their recruits with the AT-4!
@-rep +2 C-rep +1
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
So we're thinking 80-90
So we're thinking 80-90 Aptitude points and around 500 points for skills and gear? I think I can go with that. It's enough to build some satisfying NPC's and will help me avoid my own Power Creep. I appreciate the input.

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
I'm personally a fan of
I'm personally a fan of making the first 20 points of a skill half price. That's probably a house rule I'd roll with. It can be hard for a roleplaying game to emulate reality with skills. Take my wife for example. When she was in practice, she was shooting 92 out of 100 in trap shooting. And it really wasn't that much practice. The olympic record is 99 out of 100. Here's the scores from this Women's Trap Olympics - running 99 through 87. http://www.london2012.com/shooting/event=shooting-women-trap/ How the heck does one work that out in a percentile skill based system!? How does one pull a 80/90 shotgun skill out of their butt in EP? Well, of course it isn't possible. P.S. Trap shooting is more of REF than COO activity for sure, though, and she does have freakishly good reflexes.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto