It’s pretty easy to get a few Knowledge skills over 60, and getting +30 to common rolls is a big deal. [i]Transhuman[/i] had some useful guidelines - e.g., you can’t use Academics: Psychology to get a bonus on all social rolls ever. But I’d like to hear more thoughts on when it is and isn’t appropriate to get a complementary skill bonus.
For example, when could you apply Academics: Computer Science to Infosec and Programming rolls? When could you apply Profession: Psychotherapy to Psychosurgery rolls? How about Academics: Engineering to Hardware rolls?
The reason I ask is that my usual gaming group runs Exalted. Due to the way stunt bonuses work, we’re very used to coming up with arguments to get circumstantial bonuses. But an extra +1 or +2 dice in Exalted is a much smaller deal than a complementary skill bonus in EP.
Welcome! These forums will be deactivated by the end of this year. The conversation continues in a new morph over on Discord! Please join us there for a more active conversation and the occasional opportunity to ask developers questions directly! Go to the PS+ Discord Server.
How generous should you be with complementary skill bonuses?
Fri, 2014-07-18 18:30
#1
How generous should you be with complementary skill bonuses?
Sat, 2014-07-19 03:16
#2
I have player with Profession
I have player with Profession: Mesh Security, should he get a bonus to all Infosec? I argued that he would get the bonus to defeat the Firewall and maybe evade detection sort of stuff, but the actual rolls to compromise things, he probably shouldn't, just like Academics: Psychology isn't the end all of bonuses for social rolls.
But that is just my guess, I look forward to hearing other people's thoughts, I am a struggling newb GM at running Eclipse Phase.
—
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Sat, 2014-07-19 04:53
#3
I've always thought that it
I've always thought that it is a good idea to be fairly generous. If we remove augmentations from the mix, the EP skill system is set up in such a way that by just using one skill, it is very easy to fail. The complimentary skills are there to fill in the gap and make it possible for characters to be good in a field.
So I'm leaning on the "fairly generous" side of the scale.
—
Lorsa is a Forum moderator
[color=red]Red text is for moderator stuff[/color]
Sat, 2014-07-19 05:53
#4
I apply my Knowledge:Chemistry to my Breakfast rolls every day!
In general, I feel you should think about where you would use that skill on it's own, and see if that applies.
Profession: Mesh Security, to use uwtartarus's example, would imo come into play when setting up how a network is designed; which users have access to which systems, where the airgaps are, that kind of thing.
So it wouldn't be of any use for straight up incursion, but may apply a bonus on rolls to switch networks to access specific systems, overcome other defenses, or perhaps trick the opposition into blocking themselves or stepping into one of their own traps.
Similarly, you could sometimes apply Profession: Psychotherapy to Psychosurgery rolls when you're trying to remove or implant derangements, or Academics: Computer Science to infosec when trying to trick a system into overheating or otherwise screwing with the hardware.
Don't be afraid to lower the granted bonus dependent upon how much help you think the skill would be.
—
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few.
But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
Sat, 2014-07-19 15:08
#5
ThatWhichNeverWas wrote:In
I second this. I woudn't add, say Profession: Aerospace Engineering when reparing a spacecraft in the field with Hardware: Spacecraft, but I would absolutley add Hardware: Spacecraft when designing a custom engine upgrade with Profession: Aerospace Engineering.
I also wish Eclipse Phase had clearer guidelines for skill usage. The current system is absolutely fine, but a perfectionist in me wants more order.
Sat, 2014-07-19 16:48
#6
Capy that example i think is
Capy that example i think is a bit off i'd say small bonus if they have the blueprints and the nature of the repair. swapping out an intact part for a new one definitely not. dealing with a damaged part yes. jury rigging a solution yes.
Sat, 2014-07-19 17:55
#7
My reasoning was that
My reasoning was that Hardware basically deals with maintaining stuff that already exists, while Aerospace Engineering as a profession is about creating new stuff, but you're probably right.
This is what I'm talking about: between complimentary and/or overlapping Academics, Professions and Interests a lot of rolls require these small arbitary decisions. It can be fun, but also can be tiresome.
Sat, 2014-07-19 18:37
#8
true true. right now I am
true true. right now I am making an arms and armor engineer as my personal avatar in setting. while in setting most creation is done via programming checks with nano fabs if anything needs doing by hand and certainly assembly i would have things default to the hardware skillsets. And ya i would reduce the number of rolls and give arbitrary bonuses.
for him making his blueprints for the law giver knock off i am working on I would have him roll academics engineering for the drafts, programming for the blueprint creation, second for inputting into the fabber, and then a hardware check to assemble the pieces.
the second programming check is kinda redundant unless separated by a period of time so if he was in his workshop i would drop the second check
Sat, 2014-07-19 22:23
#9
Well, when dealing with
Well, when dealing with hardware, a good way to handle complementary skills (and this might apply in all cases, I'm just winging it on the hardware idea) would be to see if the higher-level academic knowledge applies directly to solving this problem. If it's purely academic/knowledge-based, then you'd just roll the Knowledge skill, and if your learning in this area doesn't practically apply to what you're doing, you just roll the Active, no bonus. So unless you're taking several minutes to actually plot the trajectory of the bullet and do all your math right, Academics: Physics does not apply to your Kinetic Weapons roll.
So, for example, with Hardware: Aerospace, you'd roll it to properly apply patches to the hull of a ship, fix the sticky joint on a docking clamp or landing gear, or properly put all of space tab A into space slot B so your ultralight doesn't fall apart the instant you try to use it, without needing to check the manual. If, say, the magnets in your Metallic Hydrogen drive are out of alignment, and you need to fix this, because you're physically repairing it, you roll Hardware: Aerospace. But if you, say, have Professional training in Spacecraft Systems, or an advanced degree in Electrical Engineering, those might contain information you can directly apply to the problem and thus help fix your engine without accidentally melting anybody's face off.
(On a metatextual level, it may be more appropriate and interesting to allow the most freedom for Complementary skills when a skill test is somehow narratively important, as opposed to a run of the mill "how well are you doing on front x" test. Seeing how much DUR your plane or shuttlecraft recovers in a dry dock while you fix it isn't excessively dramatic, even if it's something you'd value in-universe, while restarting your engines before you drift across the line for the Cordon and are evaporated by Interceptors is very dramatic, either way.)
—
H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog
http://ephrep.blogspot.com/
Mon, 2014-07-21 23:08
#10
My general rule of thumb is
My general rule of thumb is such: If I could use either check to conceivably do an action, they are complementary.
It's basically a bonus for having redundancies where skills overlap.
Tue, 2014-07-22 00:47
#11
uwtartarus wrote:I have
My answer to this would be that, just as Academics: Psychology may eliminate some penalties or provide a bonus only if the player has sufficient time to build a psych profile of their target, I would say that Profession: Mesh Security applies if it's a situation that's relevant to that professional skill.
Someone who works in Mesh Security is probably effective at Infosec, but the profession itself isn't Infosec. Otherwise, you could just substitute one for the other. What Profession: Mesh Security represents is someone who might know how mesh architectures work, or where the backdoors are in certain systems, or which brands do what. They know how people monitor systems, and so, while a Profession: Mesh Security skill might not get you a bonus on the initial infiltration, it may get you a bonus on the opposed rolls to hide your intrusion from the network's security monitor.
—
[img]http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/982/exhumanbar.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/4473/scumbar.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/1396/gatecrasherbar.jpg[/img]
[code][@-rep +1, f-rep +2][/code]