Welcome! These forums will be deactivated by the end of this year. The conversation continues in a new morph over on Discord! Please join us there for a more active conversation and the occasional opportunity to ask developers questions directly! Go to the PS+ Discord Server.

How do infomorphs "look"

8 posts / 0 new
Last post
Holy Holy's picture
How do infomorphs "look"
I wondered a bit about infomorphs and came up with some questions. If you would like to comment on this I would be happy.
  1. How does an infomorph look to others and itself? Are they pure creatures of thought or do they have something like an unique apperance?
  2. Does a transhuman need some picture of itself in order not to go mad?
  3. Can you definetly identify an infomorph by looking at it ("seeing" the patterns underlying it's representation in Simulspace)?
  4. Can you trap an infomorph in simulspace without it realising that it is not in the pysical world? If yes, could an infomporph trained in simulspacedesign, programming etc. realize that it is trapped?
Scottbert Scottbert's picture
1. They don't 'look' like
1. They don't 'look' like anything, although many probably have a preferred avatar for use in holoprojections and simulspaces. 2. Not according to the rules as written, but if it comes up feel free to play up the horror of not having a body if a character cares. 3. 'seeing the patterns underlying its representation' doesn't mean anything, although you could try to recognize someone's mannerisms. If you have an ego open in psychosurgery software, a psychosurgeon who's worked on them before might be able to recognize them. 4. A. Yes. B. Maybe -- they might know some things to check for in a poorly-designed simulspace, recognize if someone reused common open-source models for rooms or objects or something, but a simulspace that can't be told apart from reality is certainly possible (although there is a question of scale -- faking a habitat full of people and a simulated mesh is much harder unless you actually have that many real egos, but leaving someone to wonder whether the interrogation room they're in is real or not is easy.
Trinary Trinary's picture
Augmented Reality
When I want my infomorph pc to be publicly "present", I use AR Illusion Software to put a virtual hologram of my avatar onto the public mesh. Strict enough spam filters will edit it out, and I generally specify a translucent appearance so it's obviously a projection. It gives the other PCs something to talk to without appearing completely bughouse nuts.
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Holy wrote:I wondered a bit
Holy wrote:
I wondered a bit about infomorphs and came up with some questions. If you would like to comment on this I would be happy.
  1. How does an infomorph look to others and itself? Are they pure creatures of thought or do they have something like an unique apperance?
There is nothing like a "pure creature of thought". A human-like brain converted to software will need a body representation to function (just consider how integral the body is to feelings), although it doesn't have to show up visually. And people typically want to look like something so other's can identify and relate to them - entities that do not care about that are seriously posthuman. So infomorphs will no doubt at least have a visual avatar, but could quite likely have tactile, olfactory or any other sense elements in their representation. ("You know the worst thing about dealing with the Tiu clade? Their theme music. It is so annoying!")
Quote:
  • Does a transhuman need some picture of itself in order not to go mad?
  • Might be necessary for many people. Your body image is rather strongly linked to your sense of self (read Oliver Sachs descriptions of how weird the world, body and self can get when you have parietal lobe malfunctions). Not having a "body" might lead at least to dissociative mental disorders.
    Quote:
  • Can you definetly identify an infomorph by looking at it ("seeing" the patterns underlying it's representation in Simulspace)?
  • Avatars are likely just AR pictures, and doesn't have to tell you anything ("Yet another SimWorld clipart body.") You want to look for cryptographic identifiers, like some authentication tag ("Sir, the avatar has an authenticated signature belonging to Mrs Herone Gaultier, CitId 2055071848229, c-nethandle HeroneGold45") or maybe a unique combination of software if the infomorph wants to hide ("Sir, the software running the avatar is a Cognite ExoS4 5.40.b. Comparing the plugins, remote file dependencies and delay pattern there is 96.3% that this is the same informorph that accosted you earlier this morning.")
    Quote:
  • Can you trap an infomorph in simulspace without it realising that it is not in the pysical world? If yes, could an infomporph trained in simulspacedesign, programming etc. realize that it is trapped?
  • I think most people in EP are pretty good at recognizing simulspaces by now. Small things like physics being slightly off (did the programmers really check whether the bookshelf *tastes* bookshelf, or that dust accumulates in the right way?) Making an indistinguishable from reality simulspace takes a lot of effort and computing power. It can be done, but the effort is huge. Of course, AGIs might not see the difference between the physical world and simulspaces in the first place: sometimes that real wolrd naivite can come back and haunt them seriously.
    Extropian
    Jaberwo Jaberwo's picture
    So what is the difference
    So what is the difference between a simulmorph and an infomorph? Can you simulate any morph so you have much less problems adapting to a morph you just sleeved into?
    OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
    A Simulmorph is a bundle of
    A [b]Simulmorph[/b] is a bundle of graphics and code written to represent an ego in, and allow that ego to interface with a particular [b]simulspace[/b]. There's probably not allot of crossover of simulmorphs and simulspaces because the simulspaces wouldn't all use the same game engine (or "reality engine"). An infomorph is just an ego running on hardware, Probably dedicated hardware, probably a cyberbrain, that is not encased or attached to a morph. The cannon material does not imply that there is any simulation of embodiment or environment when being instanced as an informorph. However, an infomorph could immerse itself in the rich AR environment generally present in any human habitat and participate in that environment via an AR Avatar. As to identification of an informorph; all ego's running on hardware will have a specific brain print. See Panopticon.

    Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

    Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
    Incidentally, this dance
    Incidentally, this dance video gives an idea of just how cool infomorph avatars might look: http://io9.com/5987537/this-experimental-dance-film-is-most-hypnotizing-...
    Extropian
    Trinary Trinary's picture
    Sim / Info
    One other difference that OneTrikPony overlooks is that an Infomorph is that Simulmorphs also have to 'play fair' with the rules of the simspace they're inhabiting. So for instance a medieval combat simspace would probably restrict the user to one point of view (their simulmorph's senses). An telepresent infomorph doesn't have that same restriction. If the AR Avatar of an infomorph is sitting across the table at a cafe from you; that doesn't necessarily mean that the sensor spime they're using as a 'primary feed' is in that particular direction. They aren't as 'really there' as a simulmorph inside a simspace is. On the other hand, said sensory-limited simulmorph can pick up a mug, quaff down an xp of ale, then start a haptic bar-brawl; whereas an AR Infomorph avatar can't even pass you the salt. Well, unless someone's gone and made mesh-enabled publically controllable salt-shaker microbots. Hmm, where'd I leave that Fabber?