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How do electronic sheep see dreams...

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Mon, 2009-10-05 19:14

Democritus Democritus's picture

How do electronic sheep see dreams...

...or how do Infomorphs percieve the mesh? This question came up when I tried to explain the setting to my players and I was stumped. So how does an Informorph who's browsing the mesh experience it? Is there some spatial configuration to it, some "cyberspace" through which it moves? Or is it simply some data network perception that we cannot comprehend? Obviously when a Informorph enters a VR or plays back some XP there's a space that it resides in. But what if it's simply active on some processor and browsing the mesh for porn?

Wed, 2009-10-07 20:32

bakho

Re: How do electronic sheep see dreams...

Hmm. Well, here's my suggestion (since that first crossed my mind) - since the processors for biomorphs can be tied directly into their regular sensorium (thus making AR viable) such a feat would be a simple matter of programming for an ego ran as a program off of a computer. Now, if you look at it like that, he would literally be one with the information - or more precisely, ride the wave of data. He'd *be* the search query, running through millions of terms and words, the picture downloaded from an Old Earth database, the new music snatched from a private Extropian server. He wouldn't deal with mere representations (like the AR entopics or VR illusions) but take in data like a computer does - pure information. Now, that doesn't offer a easily imagined representation, but if you think about it, it could result in whole infomorph hacker subcultures, addicted to the thrill of data-running and losing oneself in the Mesh, being one with it. Also, it takes the hacker disdain of flesh on a whole new level.

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The only principle t

Thu, 2009-10-08 13:21

puke

Re: How do electronic sheep see dreams...

its probably skinned to suit the user. haxx0rz probably have multiple CLIs arranged around them in a 3d space, sort of like minority-report taken to the next level. regular users probably experience everything through whatever pop-diva interface is popular at the moment. probably like being at a brittney spears garden tea party or something.

Thu, 2009-10-08 15:14

Kanada Ten Kanada Ten's picture

Sanity sacks of mostly data

The informorph's "mind" is designed to emulate the biological counterpart, contained and constrained by that emulation, but also kept sane. Thus they should interpret and interact with the Mesh in the same manner as anyone else: be it uplift, synth, pod or what have you. Now, what in form that interaction and experience takes place could still be varied and unique via the myriad virtual worlds, sensations and synesthesia one could draw from. Cyberspace makes the metaphorical description easier, I think, the turning of data into a physical representation of what that data "does" in the virtual space. That's not to say we can't describe (or have various minds experience) it as "math space" or the "Crystal Wind" or what have you as various authors have. Some have argued that "mind analogues" would need a virtual body and space akin to reality, because without the definite outlines of a physical form and space one loses the sense of self identity.

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Rethink Resleeve Redo

Thu, 2009-10-08 18:49

Democritus Democritus's picture

Re: Sanity sacks of mostly data

Thanks everyone for the ideas. The point though is that there seems to be no official "way" in Eclipse Phase and we're free to make up what we want?

Wed, 2009-11-04 15:47

TBRMInsanity TBRMInsanity's picture

Re: How do electronic sheep see dreams...

I guess it is my Shadowrun background but I always thought an infomorph was like an avatar on the matrix. They take on a form of their choosing and can interact with other avatars as if they were meeting in the real world. I imagine that bioconservatives would take on a more "traditional" avatars (ie more human like) while ultimates would be more "interesting" (FSM anyone?).

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Jovian Motto: Your mind is original. Preserve it. Your body is a temple. Maintain it. Immortality is an illusion. Forget it.

Wed, 2009-11-11 07:37

Tiempo

Re: How do electronic sheep see dreams...

TBRMInsanity wrote:
I guess it is my Shadowrun background but I always thought an infomorph was like an avatar on the matrix. They take on a form of their choosing and can interact with other avatars as if they were meeting in the real world. I imagine that bioconservatives would take on a more "traditional" avatars (ie more human like) while ultimates would be more "interesting" (FSM anyone?).

The only thing there, is that you make th existence and description of VR redundant in the setting. If everything is VR, why make the difference?

Sun, 2010-02-21 04:48

Democritus Democritus's picture

Re: How do electronic sheep see dreams...

Just bumping this because I'm still wondering...

Sun, 2010-02-21 09:49

TBRMInsanity TBRMInsanity's picture

Re: How do electronic sheep see dreams...

Democritus wrote:
Just bumping this because I'm still wondering...

The mesh would be like a dream. You experience everything as if it were real but the stuff you experience would be alien to the mind in most cases (like having the ability to follow any (or none) of the laws of nature). You would still have your 5 senses (in fact blind, deaf, and dumb people would gain these senses) but the input to those senses are manipulated by code. To take a line from the Matrix, "maybe that is why most things taste like chicken, the machines couldn't figure out what to make it taste like so they made it taste like chicken." Basically as a GM you have the freedom to describe the mesh as it fits in your game setting. EP is great that way, the GM is God and if something works for your game, do it. You don't need any more justification beyond that.

—

Jovian Motto: Your mind is original. Preserve it. Your body is a temple. Maintain it. Immortality is an illusion. Forget it.

Sun, 2010-02-21 10:21

#10

Democritus Democritus's picture

Re: How do electronic sheep see dreams...

Alright so the mesh is the matrix? But VR is the matrix.

Sun, 2010-02-21 23:29

#11

TBRMInsanity TBRMInsanity's picture

Re: How do electronic sheep see dreams...

Democritus wrote:
Alright so the mesh is the matrix? But VR is the matrix.

If you ever get a chance to look at the SR4 rules, particularly the section on the Wireless World, I think you will get a better idea.

—

Jovian Motto: Your mind is original. Preserve it. Your body is a temple. Maintain it. Immortality is an illusion. Forget it.

Tue, 2010-02-23 02:16

#12

Decivre

Re: How do electronic sheep see dreams...

Democritus wrote:
Alright so the mesh is the matrix? But VR is the matrix.

The Mesh is an online network, essentially the futuristic equivalent of the internet. The Matrix was the exact same thing in the world of Shadowrun. VR is virtual reality, a means of interacting with computers through a full-immersion simulation. Not all of the Mesh is necessarily VR (especially concerning all AR data), but not all VR is a part of the Mesh. A≠B

—

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Tue, 2010-02-23 03:09

#13

Democritus Democritus's picture

Re: How do electronic sheep see dreams...

Yeah, I get that, but I mean in terms of the experience. They are the same, right? Both are very smiliar: Presenting a navigable 3dimensional space to the user who has a "body" that they use. The Mesh is used to visualize data. A VR is an orchestrated experience.

Tue, 2010-02-23 09:00

#14

TBRMInsanity TBRMInsanity's picture

Re: How do electronic sheep see dreams...

Democritus wrote:
Yeah, I get that, but I mean in terms of the experience. They are the same, right? Both are very smiliar: Presenting a navigable 3dimensional space to the user who has a "body" that they use. The Mesh is used to visualize data. A VR is an orchestrated experience.

Any part of the Mesh that is VR would be like any VR environment (with unique rules and the ability to make yourself look like whatever you want (ie your avatar)). Parts of the Mesh that are AR (ie when your looking at a restaurant's menu) would be like the scene from Minority Report (like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xulH7VgHZ2s ).

—

Jovian Motto: Your mind is original. Preserve it. Your body is a temple. Maintain it. Immortality is an illusion. Forget it.

Thu, 2010-02-25 09:55

#15

Decivre

Re: How do electronic sheep see dreams...

Democritus wrote:
Yeah, I get that, but I mean in terms of the experience. They are the same, right? Both are very smiliar: Presenting a navigable 3dimensional space to the user who has a "body" that they use. The Mesh is used to visualize data. A VR is an orchestrated experience.

Think of VR as a medium, like books and TV. The Mesh is a network like the Internet. VR is a way to perceive the mesh, but not the only way. Much like the Internet, you can use your computer, or certain TVs, or your cellphone. With the Mesh, you can use VR or AR to perceive it. To say that the Mesh and VR are the same is like saying that the Internet and Windows Vista are the same. Not quite.

—

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]