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How do the Barsoomian nomads support themselves?

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Sun, 2010-03-28 11:30
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browwiw browwiw's picture
How do the Barsoomian nomads support themselves?
This is probably a question best answered by, "Shut up and wait for [i]Sunward[/i]", but I'll plow along nonetheless. It occurs to me that being a nomad on Mars, even a nominally terraformed Mars, doesn't have a very wide profit margin in either monetary terms or lifespan. Except for research stations there aren't any naturally occurring oases and, unless I'm missing it in the literature, the wilds of Mars don't have the flora yet to support grazing cattle. That's how nomads have historically supported themselves: cattle. I get that in the EP verse the Barsoomians probably have portable 'fabbers, but they'd still need some sort of income to pay for goods and services a 'fabber can't poop out. Off the top of my head, I think the Barsoomians may make their credits through cartography and trailblazing (mapping the frontiers or Mars on a fine scale that satellites can't and trading that to hypercorps) and wildcatting ore claims and selling the rights to hypercorps. Anybody have any better ideas? Am I wrong about Mars not being able to support even genetically altered cattle, yet?
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"Let’s face it: Most of us are just here to shoot stormtroopers." - Gary M. Sarli

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Sun, 2010-03-28 19:10
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: How do the Barsoomian nomads support themselves?
browwiw wrote:
This is probably a question best answered by, "Shut up and wait for [i]Sunward[/i]", but I'll plow along nonetheless. It occurs to me that being a nomad on Mars, even a nominally terraformed Mars, doesn't have a very wide profit margin in either monetary terms or lifespan. Except for research stations there aren't any naturally occurring oases and, unless I'm missing it in the literature, the wilds of Mars don't have the flora yet to support grazing cattle. That's how nomads have historically supported themselves: cattle. I get that in the EP verse the Barsoomians probably have portable 'fabbers, but they'd still need some sort of income to pay for goods and services a 'fabber can't poop out. Off the top of my head, I think the Barsoomians may make their credits through cartography and trailblazing (mapping the frontiers or Mars on a fine scale that satellites can't and trading that to hypercorps) and wildcatting ore claims and selling the rights to hypercorps. Anybody have any better ideas? Am I wrong about Mars not being able to support even genetically altered cattle, yet?
The problem with cattle raising in Eclipse Phase is that meat can be vat-grown. Rather than growing live cattle which you must control, keep alive until fully reared, and then slaughter, vat-grown meats never actually live, don't actually need to be controlled beyond guarding their location, and they produce harvestable meats without the need to slaughter a living animal. Granted, running a meat harvesting center may be a very lucrative business. If I could think of any jobs that might be effective means of making a living on the Martian landscape, it would be these: [list][*]Services: Post-scarcity economies don't really have a means of selling goods, but services will always be in high demand. Anything from security, maintenance, repair, location (the closest thing to goods sales might be the location of specific rarities for a client, or the retrieval of stolen goods) to sex are all likely to be things that people still desire. [*]Economic transition: As one of the many places where a reputation economy has started to take hold, barsoomians do not necessarily need monetary goods for basic survival needs. As such, it is possible that they may take on jobs which have no pay, but may have benefits for themselves. Such people will have given up on the traditional economies as being "difficult to enter", and will have decided to shift themselves toward making a living in the new economy that's taking hold. [*]Crime: Lastly, there's always the ever-classic "take what you want from your neighbors" route.[/list]
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Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
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Sun, 2010-03-28 21:45
browwiw browwiw's picture
Re: How do the Barsoomian nomads support themselves?
Decivre wrote:
The problem with cattle raising in Eclipse Phase is that meat can be vat-grown. Rather than growing live cattle which you must control, keep alive until fully reared, and then slaughter, vat-grown meats never actually live, don't actually need to be controlled beyond guarding their location, and they produce harvestable meats without the need to slaughter a living animal. Granted, running a meat harvesting center may be a very lucrative business.
I agree in the principle. The purely practical person would be like, "Hey, yeah, I'll just pour some sand into my 'fabber so it can grunt me out a prime rib. That's so much better because it tastes the same, is practically instant, and requires none of the massive resources and infrastructure that ranching does." But people are people (or is that transhumans are transhumans?) and the affluent will demand to eat 'real' meat because vat meat is for the plebes. Just like the core book says, 'real' things carry a lot of prestige. Ranching would probably be a pretty lucrative enterprise for the rugged and independent Barsoomians.
Decivre wrote:
[*]Services: Post-scarcity economies don't really have a means of selling goods, but services will always be in high demand. Anything from security, maintenance, repair, location (the closest thing to goods sales might be the location of specific rarities for a client, or the retrieval of stolen goods) to sex are all likely to be things that people still desire.
Excellent points. I don't disagree in the least bit.
Decivre wrote:
[*]Economic transition: As one of the many places where a reputation economy has started to take hold, barsoomians do not necessarily need monetary goods for basic survival needs. As such, it is possible that they may take on jobs which have no pay, but may have benefits for themselves. Such people will have given up on the traditional economies as being "difficult to enter", and will have decided to shift themselves toward making a living in the new economy that's taking hold.
Again, that's super practical and would probably happen. But, this is an RPG world and we need our gruff, Gypsy-esque Barsoomians. Economic integration isn't...cinematic? We need our Barsoomians to have a chip on their shoulders concerning 'The Man' and getting into brawls at the Martian saloon.
Decivre wrote:
[*]Crime: Lastly, there's always the ever-classic "take what you want from your neighbors" route.
I agree. Every population is going to have a number of malcontents, ne'er-do-wells, and general sociopaths. The Barsoomian terrorists probably turn to crime when not being 'politically active'. Of course, crime can't be a main source of income for the nomads. They'd never be allowed into settlements if they had that kind of reputation and if it got bad enough the hypercorps would just hire Direct Action to hunt them down with gunships. Admittedly, I'm biased towards the rancher option because it gives the Barsoomians a Wild West flavor, and I get that "wild frontier" vibe from Mars in general.
—

"Let’s face it: Most of us are just here to shoot stormtroopers." - Gary M. Sarli

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Sun, 2010-03-28 22:11
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: How do the Barsoomian nomads support themselves?
browwiw wrote:
I agree in the principle. The purely practical person would be like, "Hey, yeah, I'll just pour some sand into my 'fabber so it can grunt me out a prime rib. That's so much better because it tastes the same, is practically instant, and requires none of the massive resources and infrastructure that ranching does." But people are people (or is that transhumans are transhumans?) and the affluent will demand to eat 'real' meat because vat meat is for the plebes. Just like the core book says, 'real' things carry a lot of prestige. Ranching would probably be a pretty lucrative enterprise for the rugged and independent Barsoomians.
Remember that the barsoomians generally don't get along with the affluent. The chances of them producing goods for them is minimal at best. Barsoomians are mostly refugees and the Martian lower class. Chances are that vat-grown meat will be a far more welcome meal than fabricated foods that have been artificially flavored, or the soy slop that hypercorps might provide them.
browwiw wrote:
Again, that's super practical and would probably happen. But, this is an RPG world and we need our gruff, Gypsy-esque Barsoomians. Economic integration isn't...cinematic? We need our Barsoomians to have a chip on their shoulders concerning 'The Man' and getting into brawls at the Martian saloon.
I don't see barsoomians as having a gypsy culture. I get the feeling that most of barsoomian culture is more Chinese in heritage than western, so the nomads will likely be far more independent than the gypsies of yore, perhaps to the point of being mobile tribal cultures. Besides, they already have a chip on their shoulder, and there's no real need for money to do it. Hypercorps have been screwing over the Martian underclass for years. They control the largest habitats, the majority of the key resources... and to add insult to injury [i]stole[/i] the Martian Gate from the barsoomian people. There's plenty of room for conflict... it's just that the conflict isn't necessarily about money.
browwiw wrote:
I agree. Every population is going to have a number of malcontents, ne'er-do-wells, and general sociopaths. The Barsoomian terrorists probably turn to crime when not being 'politically active'. Of course, crime can't be a main source of income for the nomads. They'd never be allowed into settlements if they had that kind of reputation and if it got bad enough the hypercorps would just hire Direct Action to hunt them down with gunships. Admittedly, I'm biased towards the rancher option because it gives the Barsoomians a Wild West flavor, and I get that "wild frontier" vibe from Mars in general.
I see other places as more likely to produce a "Wild West" theme. Fresh Kills is probably the perfect place for a Wild West throwback, as it is a location where might makes right and there really isn't any law to speak of. Certain areas in the outer system might also be like this... especially in places where reputation economies have yet to be fully adopted, and inhabitants fight over what little currency exists. Most of inhabited Mars simply doesn't lend to a homage of the wild west, since strong central authority (the hypercorps that control the planet) and urbanization (most Martians live in the largest city-habitats) are a stark contrast to the themes of the genre. I'd actually picture the people living in the more barren locales of the planet to be more akin to the Mongol nomad culture than to the American Old West.
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
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Sun, 2010-03-28 23:02
King Shere King Shere's picture
Re: How do the Barsoomian nomads support themselves?
I had the impression that Basoominas was a transhuman & EP take on the "homestead (farmers) versus the industry (magnates)" conflict. The Wild wests eras version ending the open range (fencing it). Modern times production also have the "homestead vs industry" conflict too. Basoomin Homesteads Upset with corperations usurping lands, fencing, terraforming methods & regulations. Nomads especially upset if the land becomes to strictly fenced. [b] Nomad Planter s & land cultivators [/b] Terraformers cultivating "barren" land. planting, building nurseries, & moving on. If they doesn't set up residence in the finished land -Some terraformers could be on someones payroll for doing it. Others unpaid -but sell or lease out the "finished" product, . In a similar economic model of of Johnny Appleseed - except its not just apple-trees. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Appleseed [b]Nomad Miners , [/b] With the onset of technology, depleting a "vein" of suitable feedstock would probably not take to long. Thus when miners have mined a "vein" dry, they move on the next sweet spot. Mining fallen (or buried) meteors, junk, rich mineral deposits & other forms of fabber feedstock.
—
[img]http://boxall.no-ip.org/img/tc_userbar.jpg[/img] [img]http://boxall.no-ip.org/img/exh_userbar.jpg[/img] [img]http://boxall.no-ip.org/img/argo_userbar.jpg[/img] [i]"To find fault is easy; to do better may be difficult."[/i] Plutarch
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Sun, 2010-03-28 23:13
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: How do the Barsoomian nomads support themselves?
King Shere wrote:
I had the impression that Basoominas was a transhuman & EP take on the "homestead (farmers) versus the industry (magnates)" conflict. The Wild wests eras version ending the open range (fencing it). Modern times production also have the "homestead vs industry" conflict too. Basoomin Homesteads Upset with corperations usurping lands, fencing, terraforming methods & regulations. Nomads especially upset if the land becomes to strictly fenced. [b] Nomad Planter s & land cultivators [/b] Terraformers cultivating "barren" land. planting, building nurseries, & moving on. If they doesn't set up residence in the finished land -Some terraformers could be on someones payroll for doing it. Others unpaid -but sell or lease out the "finished" product, . In a similar economic model of of Johnny Appleseed - except its not just apple-trees. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Appleseed [b]Nomad Miners , [/b] With the onset of technology, depleting a "vein" of suitable feedstock would probably not take to long. Thus when miners have mined a "vein" dry, they move on the next sweet spot. Mining fallen (or buried) meteors, junk, rich mineral deposits & other forms of fabber feedstock.
This. The Martian landscape provides the perfect backdrop for two different battles occurring in the Eclipse Phase universe... a battle between the corporate socialites who rule the inner system with a class structure and the anarchist lower class that wishes to replace their existence with a horizontal heirarchy, and a battle between the old and new economies. In both scenarios, Mars acts as the field upon which both of these fronts clash, whereas in most other system locales, one dominates the other.
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
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