My question is when you attempt the infosec test and take the -30 for administration rights, are you limited to only taking a -30 for a 30% speed increase? I understand that you are limited to a +/- 60 for the check, however is that before or after all the modifiers are added. (ie +120 in skills etc and -90 in admin rights and 60% speed increase would be a of +30 on the check)
If it is before the check, that makes combat hacking much more difficult.
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Hacking & the -60 rule
Sat, 2010-10-09 09:23
#1
Eos
Hacking & the -60 rule
Sat, 2010-10-09 09:48
#2
babayaga
Re: Hacking & the -60 rule
The way I understand it, you can have a +120 bonus offsetting a -120 penalty. The cap is applied after all modifiers (positive and negative) have been added together.
Sun, 2010-10-10 00:39
#3
Sepherim
Re: Hacking & the -60 rule
I see that as well Babayaga. But it could lead to exploits by people accelerating their actions even further once they already reached the -60, so I'm not fully sure about it. :?
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Sun, 2010-10-10 00:56
#4
CodeBreaker
Re: Hacking & the -60 rule
Modifiers are calculated all together, and then the limit is enforced. I do not see how someone would be able to speed up actions faster than taking the -60% and -60 modifier, mainly because the Task Action rules specifically say that that is the maximum reduction possible (Other than things like MoS or the Instinct sleight).
If you are instead suggesting that that people would be able to have a -30 for Admin, and then take -60 time reduction and still only end up with a -60 modifier I would suggest that you add the condition to time reduction that you are only able to reduce the time scale within the modifier limit. So if you already have a total modifier of -30 you could only speed your action up by 30% (taking it to the -60 limit). That is how we have always handled it in my home games.
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Sun, 2010-10-10 05:43
#5
Andinel
Re: Hacking & the -60 rule
While we're on the subject, could I get a small clarification as to how time-reducing modifiers stack? Is all time reduction done after the task is complete, or is it multiplicative? i.e. if you brute-force hack a system (1 minute) at -60% time and get a MoS of 30, is it a -90% time reduction (to 6 seconds) or a 72% time reduction (0.4*0.7) to 16.8 seconds? Also, how would the Instinct sleight factor into this?
Sun, 2010-10-10 10:40
#6
Eos
Re: Hacking & the -60 rule
In rereading the task action description, I think one could indeed reduce the time by -60 and go for administration level. You still have to follow the caps (ie max -60 on rushing, max +30 on assist) It would just be after modifiers for the absolute rule of 60. To help prevent numbers getting out of hand I would impose a max if +60 to related skill bonuses too.
Sun, 2010-10-10 10:44
#7
Eos
Re: Hacking & the -60 rule
This would be a -90% time reduction. You succeed so well during the check it further reduces the time. Kind of like an ah ha moment when you see a hidden backdoor in a firewall, etc.
Sun, 2010-10-10 14:26
#8
Andinel
Re: Hacking & the -60 rule
If this is the case, then, what happens with a 100% or more time reduction? It'd be ridiculously easy for an async with Instinct and a half-decent Infosec skill to take -60 on the test, get a MoS of 10, and hack into a system without even brute-force hacking with a 100% time reduction, as Instinct would reduce the timeframe by 30%. Would the action be a quick action? An automatic action? A complex action?
Sun, 2010-10-10 15:06
#9
Eos
Re: Hacking & the -60 rule
The roll would be the completion of your first action turn of the task action. In essence it just removes the need for any more task actions spent when you achieve 100%. So this would be considered 1 complex action.
Sun, 2010-10-10 16:19
#10
CodeBreaker
Re: Hacking & the -60 rule
Negative, it would take a single action turn to complete, not a complex action. Task actions are collections of action turns bundled into a single roll. As such any reduction of a task action by -100% would only take one action turn.
And this is why Combat Hacking is possible in EP. Being able to brute force your way into any system with an extremely high success rate is not difficult to do.
(Note - Some people on these forums stick to time reductions multiplying together rather than adding. I am not one of them, but be aware that some people prefer it that way mainly because it prevents things like this)
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Sun, 2010-10-10 16:51
#11
Eos
Re: Hacking & the -60 rule
A full action turn makes sense. I was throwing complex action in as really the only action you could make besides breathe (for some of us) or maybe speak.
The creators of the game lead us to them wanting to keep things simple. If you multiply the time reduction it's a messy number that really doesn't fit the 3 second action turn prettily. Besides, even with 1 round brute force hacking, you still have the locked status and countermeasures to worry about. Not to mention the time you need to cover your tracks in some instances.