Quincey Forder wrote:

My personnal opinion is that we send a few AM nukes in volcanoes and blow that damn rock up! That will solve the problem of the Reclaimers crybabies, the TITANs legacies AND provide us with billions of tons of raw materials to make more habitats, to nanofab morphes for the infugees. Earth is DEAD, people, and those hypothetical survivors are Exsurgents-waiting-for-infection! How many millions are spent each week, each days, maintaining killersats to enforce the interdiction? Millions that could be spent elsewhere. Like terraforming Mars, or Venus's upper atmosphere. Provide bodies to those who lose even that in the Fall?

Have you ever been down the well since the Fall? I have. Twice actually. First time was my escape, the second was needing to retrieve something important to me. Let me tell you straight up, that PC bullshit you get in the Inner System about Earth being a desolate wasteland? It's just that, bullshit. I met people down there, people who are fighting every day to maintain the last vestiges of beauty left. I heard reports, and possibly saw evidence, that nature is fighting back against the TITANs, or that the TITANs are at least leaving swathes of land alone. That hunk of rock is still home. The shit that gets thrown around claiming that Mars is our new home world is idiocy. Any world where I need a rebreather and a thermal suit just to go outside is no world I want to claim as our cultural centre. If we give it up we admit to ourselves that the TITANs truly were victorious, that we are but rats clinging to flotsam after the ship hit the rocks. It is still the ground where billions of our brothers and sisters (and in-betweens) were massacred. Have some fucking respect for our history.

Double post

If we are going to play that game, can you be sure that where ever you are now (don't tell me, that info is dangerous) is not some elaborite game of the TITANs? I believe what I experienced was truly real. I am unsure if you are aware of my particular skillset, but let me just say I am aptly named. I have spent a majority of my experienced life in simulspace. After some time you begin to get a feeling about that sort of thing. But yes, it could have been a cunning ploy by some reclaimer aristo with enough credits to make me cry. But to what end? Without dealing with certainties, my life outside the Org is kept as secret as is physically possible in this day and age. Any dealings with my fork would have had to of been as an agent. Seems a bit of a waste to mentally play with someone sworn to complete secrecy outside of these circles.

What the frack was that?! isn't this forum secured. If this fork of mine has been infected by TITAN shit, there will be hell to pay!

Daniel_Evans|UploadThisBitch@EcoWave_RECLAIM@LLA_VoNguyen [hr] Now this is my kind of topic. That Odoist [i]being[/i] just glitches my feed. You're talking to a real Reclaimer, folks, and not the sort that whinges on the mesh, asking pretty please can we have our planet back? I'm a Terran Soldier, answering directly to our Red Lady. I don't know what Org you're talking about but I don't see a problem sharing what I know, if it'll contribute to the Cause. Truth be told, A've just back from an Earthward expedition not last week. Got some good XP to share, for a favour. [LINK] I still get a kick out of watching that warbot go down from my hellballs. I'm not a recruiter, but I'm still gonna ask. We can't do this alone. We can hide what we're doing from the PC, but we just don't have the resources to make a serious impact. With a good sized fleet, we can take out the interdiction net, blast the TITAN remnants from orbit and take back our planet. Working on the ground with survivors (and yes, there's a lot of survivors. The years haven't been kind, but they've kept on going, and we haven't forgotten them) we've made a serious foothold in several locations. As for why, well what's the most expensive thing in the solar system, to make and acquire? Living. Space. Every infugee and member of the clanking masses alive today can find a home on Earth, maybe even the home they left ten years ago. And while I'm for exoplanet colonization, I figure we should have a strong base from which to start, that we are naturally (and how often do you hear that word?) attuned to. Every transhuman biomorph, no matter how shoddy the genehacker can breathe oxygen. Too many people and organizations like the PC see the Fall as a good thing. No longer subservient to national heads of state, or held back by outdated bioconservative laws, or worried about the threat of climate change. 'Who cares about Earth?' they say. I care. I'm going back. You coming?

From: evapor8@cpc9-brig23-2-0-cust127.9-4.nquebec.tn To: Axel_Chimeric@FreeRangeDarkcast The spurious propaganda churned out by the reclaimers regarding their blessed homeworld is just that. Propaganda. Transhumanity forked, let it go, let it die.

Daniel_Evans|UploadThisBitch@EcoWave_RECLAIM@LLA_VoNguyen [hr] Why destroy a source of slave labour? You ask as though the PC would consider this. I wouldn't give them the chance. We've made links with the underground railroad movement supported by Morningstar, in order to rescue indentures and house them on Earth, after the Reclamation. I am well aware that the Planetary Consortium is opposed to Reclaiming Earth. Now one thing I hear when people start telling me 'no', is how the death of the nation-states and unnecessary loyalties to them was a good thing. But I agree. Maybe it's just cos I don't like the PC, but I reckon the Autonomists have got something worth thinking about, maybe we should be governing ourselves. Whatever, we'll cross that bridge when we got there. Because we will get there.

I want to go home. I want you to come home with me. Because we love you. We love you so much. Return and we'll all be together. Forever.

Horrors? What horrors? I think you're exaggerating. Earth is perfectly fine. As a matter of face I think everyone should visit.

Xahn Borealis wrote:

Daniel_Evans|UploadThisBitch@EcoWave_RECLAIM@LLA_VoNguyen [hr] Man, I'm sure getting sick of these, "Oooh, look at me, I'm an Exsurgent," trolls. You're not fooling anyone, folks.

It's all fun and games until the troll comes up from under the bridge and does far worse than eat you. Pretending to be an Exsurgent... not the smartest thing in the system. I've had some... experience with iterations of the plague, and it's definitely no laughing matter. All the more reason to blast the TITAN spawn off the face of the Earth.

Quote:

Man, I'm sure getting sick of these, "Oooh, look at me, I'm an Exsurgent," trolls. You're not fooling anyone, folks.

**ANON PROTOCOLS ENABLED** SENDER - **SCRUBBED** TIME - 1900/01/01 Careful who you call a Troll. Word from on high is that this one is real, and particularly nasty. Some things make the those that go bump in the night scared. This might be one of them.

Xahn Borealis wrote:

Daniel_Evans|UploadThisBitch@EcoWave_RECLAIM@LLA_VoNguyen [hr] I'm hoping there's one of these Pandora Gates down there. That PC cordon requires some expensive gear to get past, and it's not reusable either. If we could just 'crash down there, it'd be a lot easier to get back home.

On the contrary I fervently hope that there [b]isn't[/b] a Pandora Gate down there. Doors work both ways.

Leave it to rot. Seriously. The reclaimers are a bunch of romantics, so caught up with thinking about how things used to be they can't see the wood for the trees. Earth is gone. We messed up. Sure, we could try and resurrect it, but why flog a dead horse? In my mind our genuine memories of Earth have been subsumed by the crappy XP's the hypercorps keep shoving out. And sure, its beautiful, but its gone. End of discussion. And if any of those damned reclaimers thinks otherwise, then they are welcome to go down to the old corpse and be made into Titan-chow.

Myrmidont@Δ.green.exonet.1a994d4gs9:1212131 To Axel_Chimeric@FreeRangeDarkcast [hr] Unfortunately I have to agree with the cube. There are a number of valid reasons for returning to Earth - least of which is to remove the remaining TITAN war machinery on the surface and stamp out the embers of the Exurgent threat. We just have to ensure our feet don't get burned. It won't be easy, quick or painless, and Earth's sure not how we left it, but I think it has to be done for the good of the species.

Seriously it's not going to happen, as much as I'd like that particular dance to go down. Ah well other opportunities abound. Your leaders have a vested interest in keeping space at a premium. Ask the Barsoomians about that. Also who would foot the bill? Nobody will invest that level of resources unless it's a sure thing and believe me I make sure that it's not. I find it amusing when romantic notions and nostalgia replace pragmatism. We of course don't have that problem. But please do visit. You haven't lived until you've climbed the outside of a hundred story building and gazed out at the ruins of your civilization, a testament to the end of your time, which of course is the beginning of ours.

Myrmidont wrote:

Myrmidont@Δ.green.exonet.1a994d4gs9:1212131 To Axel_Chimeric@FreeRangeDarkcast [hr] Unfortunately I have to agree with the cube. There are a number of valid reasons for returning to Earth - least of which is to remove the remaining TITAN war machinery on the surface and stamp out the embers of the Exurgent threat. We just have to ensure our feet don't get burned. It won't be easy, quick or painless, and Earth's sure not how we left it, but I think it has to be done for the good of the species.

WhatThePhysics wrote:

I'm of the same opinion as "the cube", as well. If the Exsurgents and remaining TITANs on Earth were wiped out, we'd have a sizable and highly habitable world to recolonize. Don't get me wrong, I don't think achieving either of those primary conditions is going to be easy, but it'd be a hell of a lot easier if the cordon didn't block anyone going down the gravity well to try and do just that. Lobbing rocks down from Luna is one way to get rid of the threats, but, it's just that; one thing. Mars is going to take quite a while to completely terraform, gatecrashing presents the risk of not being able to come back, and who knows when the TITANs are going to come back from wherever the hell they went? I'm not a carrier of the "patience through immortality" meme, so I say we at least attempt to recolonize what's virtually the most habitable world in this system. Not because of some emotional satisfaction from taking back what's been lost, but because it'd ultimately ease a lot of peoples' minds, wallets, and restrictions on living space.

Re[direct]; Personal opinion; [Trans]humanity sympathy/attachment/obsession to/with Earth<>home is regrettable.

FUCK EARTH. Don't care if it's home, fuck that titan nanoswarm infested hell hole. If i never go back there it'll be too fucking soon.

CodeBreaker wrote:

If we give it up we admit to ourselves that the TITANs truly were victorious, that we are but rats clinging to flotsam after the ship hit the rocks.

Fun fact, they were victorious. We are but mortals, and the TITANs are gods.

Quote:

It is still the ground where billions of our brothers and sisters (and in-betweens) were massacred. Have some fucking respect for our history.

We're Alive, getting ourselves killed on that blasted rock won't bring the dead back. All we can do for them is to keep on living.

Earth should never be reclaimed. Some things belong in the past, and revisiting them can only bring pain. It's not only that it would open the tremendous can of worms that TITAN technology means (and the inmense risks associated to that, just check The Zone in Mars...), but also that too many parties would be interested in Earth to ensure strategic and ideological positions. Even beyond that, the effort to reclaim it would be so expensive and ressource consuming that it would hinder all the development of transhumanity in many other fields, some of which are much more important like social equality, technology and science, exoplanets, etc. We can't leave our future aside just because we want our memories from the past. I love my Berlin streets, but they're gone forever and won't return. Reclaiming the planet won't bring the dead back to life, nor will it allow us to recover the past.

TadanoriOyama wrote:

. Sure it's got a big pretty ring of death surrounding it right now but that doesn't exactly solve the long term problem of one of the planets in our system being under total enemy control.

Hubris, calling it "under enemy control" is hubris. The titans aren't enemies, they're gods, If they come back to finish the job we're fucked no matter what that blue hell hole is like. But they won't, because we're just some unimportant leftovers of their pest cleaning. Be thankful.

TadanoriOyama wrote:

I don't remember what happened to me back during the Fall but from what I've been able to figure out the match wasn't a shut out. We hurt them back. Maybe they left because they didn't care about us. Personally I think they're licking their wounds.

Bullshit. I lived through that nightmare. I remember it quite vividly. If you want XPs, I can certainly hook you up. We didn't bloody their noses. We didn't make them pay for every inch. We didn't make them think twice about tangling with our species. They came. They beat the living shit out of us. Then they left. Their reasons are their own, and I don't make any claims at guessing them--any transhuman that assumes he/she/it is capable of reasoning on the level of a TITAN is either possessed of preternatural arrogance or is completely insane. Regardless, you speak with the benefit of blissful ignorance. And ignorance is the best way to get your brain uploaded to who knows where.

Poor choice of words on my part. I suppose I've been spending too much time on Parvarti these days.

I was born on you'd call Extropia nowadays, so I only saw the Fall for what it did to my business life (and it did a hell of a job on that). I have to say, I kinda like the scummers' style of just blowing the Earth to tiny bits (in Thy mercy) but it's a childish response. Sure, you're getting a whole lot of emotional catharsis out of doing that, but it's not thinking long-term; and at this point, not nearly enough people think properly long-term. First problem is living space. It gives me a little chill thinking of all those iced infugees sitting in a server somewhere when that represents a fair chunk of the human race. The amount of work we had to do just to get Mars liveable is pretty damn significant and I hear you still need some kind of respiro-fixing if you want to get out there. Unless we really start cranking out spare habs and all the infrastructure that goes into them, we're not going to get the human race de-iced any time soon. A reclaimed Earth would let us just 'sleeve them all in a pod or case and dump 'em on the surface without having to worry about a ton of extra cargo per person. Getting all those egos into the mesh would have a positive effect on our future development, I'd think. And the Gates aren't really a colonization option anyway. If you want to backup out there, your choice is QE or nothing until we get real morph infrastructure out there. Add the problems with getting any sizeable object through and you've got yourself a recipe for bad news if anything goes wrong. Furthermore, we don't know the Factors' capabilities and until we can factor that in we don't know what they can do to us if we force the Gate issue. The other issue is tech. Earth is the biggest repository of TITAN tech we know of, and while it may be their cast-offs or whatever they decided not to bring with them, it's still a hell of a ways past what we can do now. I don't believe we're significant enough on a galactic scale for them to actually come back for us, but if you're one of those types get yourself a happy face by imagining what Boister could do with that stuff. Not even counting the military applications you've still got nano (and possible femto?) tech that's way past ours which could open up a ton of new options. Also, I feel kinda sorry for those guys/gals/in-betweens/neithers (however many there may actually be) who have been stuck there for the last decade. The major problem is that we don't have the logistic capability or military capability to run a reinvasion of Earth. In time, we might figure that stuff out, but dropping our people onto Earth at this point is basically just handing their stacks to the TITAN remainders on a computronium platter. We should retake Earth. But hell, we've got time. Fools rush in and all that.