I don't get these 3 bullet types.
Flayer rounds, they do a measly +2 damage, compared to biters that do +1d10. What is the point?
Proximity rounds, they have to miss by a MoF of 10 or less - that means the cheaper and higher damage homing reactive round would have hit! The only upside to this bullet is that when you slightly miss the blast might hit someone else, but at 1d10 damage it is so weak it won't even scratch anything in the lightest of armor.
Zero rounds require a smartlink like the homing round, but don't work on the first shot of the turn. What is the point?
Here's how I would make them:
Flayers: +5 damage. Puts them on par with biters.
Proximity rounds: At the tech level in EP, exploding 1-10 meters away is hardly "proximity", and 1d10 damage blasts are worthless. Say that instead of doing blast damage, it is loaded with a small explosive charge that sends out shrapnel in a single direction perpendicular to the bullet's length - it then times the detonation with the bullet's rotation so this shrapnel hits the target. On a miss with a MoF of 20 or less (remember that at 10 MoF a homing round would have hit) it still hits the target but with -1d10 damage.
Zero rounds: With smartlinked fire, the second shot/burst gets a +20 to hit.
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Explain flayer, proximity and zero ammo to me
Mon, 2011-04-25 17:04
#1
Explain flayer, proximity and zero ammo to me
Mon, 2011-04-25 20:23
#2
Re: Explain flayer, proximity and zero ammo to me
Non-optimal choices are allowed to exist. Let NPCs use them. :)
Mon, 2011-04-25 20:25
#3
Re: Explain flayer, proximity and zero ammo to me
Wow. Angry much? I'd use proximity rounds if I knew I was going into a facility with deadly nano-swarms or high numbers of fleshy horror-beasts with no armor... Haven't looked at the rules for flayers or Zero rounds too closely though.
Mon, 2011-04-25 20:34
#4
Re: Explain flayer, proximity and zero ammo to me
Angry? I don't know where you're getting that. Confused is more like it and with good reason considering there are such better options.
Mon, 2011-04-25 21:50
#5
Re: Explain flayer, proximity and zero ammo to me
Variety, not everything has to be on the same power level, and not everyone is concerned with optimization. Personally I prefer HP combined with a accuracy increasing smart ammo type.
Also one round could be restricted in a area and the other not, making the weaker round easier to acquire.
Take a look at NPC file 1, 1d10 can hurt a high percentage of the characters in there.
But the chance to hit multiple targets, or even damage the surroundings is useful.
Once again this is a round that is generating a variety and cool effect, that alone justifies it being included.
People can fire multiple times in a action turn, that is the point. Also check the rules for Semi-Automatic and Burst Fire which specify that you can fire twice in the same complex action. with a speed of 2 that is 4 shots, so +0/+10/+20/+30 and the total mod is better then homing. and a speed of 3-4 is not that hard to get ;)
Mon, 2011-04-25 22:03
#6
Re: Explain flayer, proximity and zero ammo to me
Well. It's pretty hard to get, in terms of the investment.
I'm not positive the Zero rules imply stacking. Is that the known intent, or consensus?
I certainly see the gulfs between these examples, Smokeskin, and my answer isn't blowing you off. :)
Tue, 2011-04-26 00:12
#7
Re: Explain flayer, proximity and zero ammo to me
I've noticed this with Eclipse Phase too, and it's something that I'm not super-happy about.
While the idea that you can just assign a price CATEGORY to something instead of having to come up with blanced prices for EVERYTHING is good, in theory, in practice it leads to the above or (even more glaringly): why would anyone use a machinegun over a sniper rifle? The sniper rifle does far more damage, has three times the armor penetration, can fire in semi-automatic, is smaller, and costs the same. I would gladly trade in the reduced magazine for that.
Tue, 2011-04-26 01:33
#8
Re: Explain flayer, proximity and zero ammo to me
If there's a reason for it, sure. It can be cheaper, or legal, or have some niche purpose. Even if PCs don't care about the difference in Trivial and Low cost, somebody might.
But just flat out worse doesn't make sense, unless they guys making it has a really good marketing department ;) That's why we don't have steam cars.
Another solution could be to just drop the price category on the bad rounds.
Tue, 2011-04-26 01:36
#9
Re: Explain flayer, proximity and zero ammo to me
Not angry at all, I just don't think those choices made sense. Maybe I missed something, maybe they could be made into interesting choices instead.
Regarding the proximity rounds, isn't it only on near misses that they rounds go off? When they hit, the blast doesn't go off.
Tue, 2011-04-26 09:52
#10
Re: Explain flayer, proximity and zero ammo to me
Possibly, they *are* cheaper. Just not enough to enter a new price category. :) Those big cost buckets make it hard to tell. And they might be legal-er, though we have no idea.
I agree that it's weird that they're completely worse, but if there were tradeoffs, they wouldn't be 'non-optimal' choices. I'm just saying, though it sucks, completely non-optimal choices may exist.
Tue, 2011-04-26 11:19
#11
Re: Explain flayer, proximity and zero ammo to me
Maybe there's some rep upside to it. It shows how tough you are. Sort of like the peacock, if you're strong and smart enough to build up that crazy arrangement of feathers, costing a lot of chemical energy, making you highly visible to predators and the weight of it will slow you down when running from them, that really impresses the females.
Maybe proximity rounds are like that. "Yeah, that's what I pack. Not only do I have the credits to burn on one of the most expensive ammo known to transhumanity, I'm tough enough to take down hordes of TITAN abominations with something that is inferior to anything but regular ammo. Like I need homing rounds to hit anything. And baby, I really wished I missed more, because the fireworks that go off when I do, that's when they know they're facing a real badass. Someone who doesn't need a crutch to dominate. Oh yeah!" That'll get you girls at the bar.
Tue, 2011-04-26 14:40
#12
Re: Explain flayer, proximity and zero ammo to me
Maybe. :) In transhumanity, everything is possible.