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Exchange rate question

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ottomancer ottomancer's picture
Exchange rate question
Hi, My group and I are three adventures into an Eclipse Phase campaign I am running called 'Promised Land', and I am currently researching the 4th adventure. I started by running a customised version of Mind The WMD, then used the short story Destino Verde as the basis for a second adventure. The third was the Transhuman Space adventure Orbital Decay converted to Eclipse Phase, with lots of the plot rewritten. The next is going to be a completely original adventure, based on events that occurred during the campaign... During the process of the PCs spending RP on improving their characters, a question has come up that I am not sure about, and I have also come up against something in my adventure planning I need some pointers on. I was hoping you lovely people can help point me in the right direction. 1. Can characters spend money on training to improve skills, or can skills only be improved in-game using RP? 2. The first three adventures I have run have been based on or in orbit around Mars. The economy there is very similar to what we have now, so characters have used money without issue. The campaign is heading Rimward, first to the Main Belt, then out to Saturn and beyond. My question is this: There is mention in the rules of the Lunar banks having established exchange rates between new/old economies. Is there an example of this in the rules? If not, how to I convert credits to rep? Thanks in advance. :-)
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
The basic range for rep
The basic range for rep/credit exchange rate is pretty well established, (but never explicitly stated), see the table on page 296 of the gear section, Trivial = 0-99, low = 100-499 etc. Specific exchange rates within the range should be established by the GM based on the Locale. For instance; on Extropia where you have banks that deal in both economies the rate would probably be average fro the range ie; 5000/High rep, while on Locus credit probably has much lower utility and value ie; 9000/High rep, and on a brinker station in the kuiper belt credit is probably worth nothing. It's interesting to note that the table "Aqure Services" on page 290 says that simply borrowing an amount of money is equivelant to a favor of that level indicating that you could gain Rep for credits and still expect a return on your money at some point in the future. Alternately that may just indicate that getting a loan you have to pay back also requires expending a favor. The table "Spending Rez Points" on page 152 says that 1 Rez = 10 Rep, 1 Rez = 1000 Credits implying that 1Rez = 10Rep = 1000Credits. This is not the way I prefer to meta-game because that would make an Extreme (80+) Rep = 8000 credits when by all other indicators it should cost 20000, (Or a minimum of 10000). In my opinion all of those exchange rates are fairly unbalanced in the outer system or on Autonomist networks, because with rep you get to have your cake and, eventually, eat it again. You can expend a favor to purchase gear without burning rep and that favor will refresh but credits, once spent, are gone. This imbalance could be dealt with by introducing "Rat Race" house rules requiring outer system characters to take actions to maintain their standing in the networks or by paying inner system characters a "Salary" equivalent to their favor levels based on the work they do for appropriate inner system networks.

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
not really exchange
think of it more like like a loan, since Rep aren't really a curency. it's just that you engage you credibility in asking for money, whatever the curency -people trust you not to do stuff that would harm them, ad the greater your rep the greater the amount they trust you with -when you repay them you "regain" some of the reputation you engaged. they don't really give you rep, just that they leave good enough feedback and ping you on the repnet like saying "I gave him money, and then he paid me back. You can trust this dude to give you your money back as soon as he can." the rep you pay is how much you appear to be needy about how much you want, how soon you want the money, and how discrete you're trying to be about it. It can make people suspicious, ergo your rep go down acccordingly it's not an objective score like, say, one's criminal ratio and psycho pass tone and color in the name-sake series, it's a statistical mean between your pings, dings and general feedacks given and received, and people can be VERY peculiar when it comes to money, especially when diverse types of economy are involved
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OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
Except that we're really
Except that we're really talking about buying Rep with money. Which pretty much makes Rep exactly the same as currency. I know it's annoying to anarchist and anti-capitalist purists but there's no effective difference between currency and any other massive cooperative system of value service exchange. It doesn't matter if you call it; Rep, Whuffie, Credit rating or Dollars they are all based on trust of an issuing authority formed by subscriptors to that authority whom allow that authority to determine the value of the units.

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

jackgraham jackgraham's picture
ottomancer wrote:
ottomancer wrote:
1. Can characters spend money on training to improve skills, or can skills only be improved in-game using RP? 2. [...] There is mention in the rules of the Lunar banks having established exchange rates between new/old economies. Is there an example of this in the rules? If not, how to I convert credits to rep?
1. For money, they can get skillsofts, but those are unreliable and cap at a certain point. My reco -- if you want to allow it at all -- would be to look at Call of Cthulhu's guidelines for letting investigators train in skills during downtime. We didn't include this type of system in EP, because the assumption is that sentinels don't get much R&R. But CoC's system is pretty rational, and it's a percentile system, so their skills are comparable in mechanical effectiveness to ours. I wouldn't let people just straight up buy skills, though. Oh, and if they look at the CoC system and think they can upload, go into quick subjective time, and train skills quickly, give them derangements (c.f., Lost Generation). 2. They're banks. PUT THE WOOD TO THEM.
J A C K   G R A H A M :: Hooray for Earth!   http://eclipsephase.com :: twitter @jackgraham @faketsr :: Google+Jack Graham
ottomancer ottomancer's picture
Thanks for all the replies
Thanks for all the replies guys. Much appreciated. So if I am understanding this correctly, if a corporate exec rocks up at a habitat that is all about the new economy, he can convert his cash into buying favours of the same worth?
blantyr blantyr's picture
Papers and Paychecks?
I would think yes, so long as he can find someone who will have need of cash. I have a martian old economy corporate type currently out at Locus at Jupiter's L4. According to my GM, her corporation wants her back near mars, would pay for the ego cast, but my character can't find anyone who would find the cash useful in exchange. This feels off to me, as the ego cast companies out to be in an excellent place to work out exchanges in all directions. So long as people are moving in both directions, some sort of exchange ought to be arrangeable, at least in a major station like Locus. I could see some company providing the service. If there is a need, someone would try to profit off the service, though new economy fanatics might shun the service out of principle or fanaticism. I could also see supply and demand making exchange rates uneven. If a station has no need to exchange with the old economy, credits might be less valued. I don't know that a games master will want to think that out, though. But if exchange rates vary too much, someone would try to exploit it... I don't know. I'm not really into Papers and Paychecks. I'd think the old / new economy thing might want to be a bit of flavor rather than a major aspect of the game.
Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
well this is Locus we're talking about
They're probably interested in money, but they're probably trying to scam you or drive you into doing something for them that wouldn't do well to THEIR rep, so they'd use the pooooooor li'l hypercorpo salary man like the'd use a tissue To them, it's not like his life is worth anything, after all "Nae, me lass! We dinnae do anyt'ing. But that Mars lad who's staying at that spar over there, he looked like he was up tae no guid! Maybe ye ought tae check him out instead, mmhh?"
[center] Q U I N C E Y ^_*_^ F O R D E R [/center] Remember The Cant! [img]http://tinyurl.com/h8azy78[/img] [img]http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/tachistarfire/theeye_fanzine_us...
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
Quincey Forder wrote:"Nae, me
Quincey Forder wrote:
"Nae, me lass! We dinnae do anyt'ing. But that Mars lad who's staying at that spar over there, he looked like he was up tae no guid! Maybe ye ought tae check him out instead, mmhh?"
The moral of that story is; Stay out of the Scottish neighborhoods of Locus and do your banking with Solaris. (Dirty scotch basterds.) ;)

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

The Doctor The Doctor's picture
ottomancer wrote:
ottomancer wrote:
1. Can characters spend money on training to improve skills, or can skills only be improved in-game using RP?
I do not know how your game works, so I would say 'maybe'. If I were to do it in my game, I would houserule it that the characters were renting time on the servers of mesh schools or universities and running training simulations to practise specific skills or abilities. That would give the characters, I think, a reasonable mechanic for spending credits to gain CP to put toward their lists of documented skills.
ottomancer wrote:
2. The first three adventures I have run have been based on or in orbit around Mars. The economy there is very similar to what we have now, so characters have used money without issue. The campaign is heading Rimward, first to the Main Belt, then out to Saturn and beyond. My question is this: There is mention in the rules of the Lunar banks having established exchange rates between new/old economies. Is there an example of this in the rules? If not, how to I convert credits to rep?
The character creation part of the core book has mappings for the five grades of favors to credits, as I recall. In v3 of the core book, it is on page 137. As for how it would work into the narrative of your game, let me do a little thinking out loud... Mr. Smith has 10,000 credits that zie would like to turn into a requisite volume of favors that might possibly be called in on Titan. Let us assume for the moment that the government of Titan and the Lunar banks have an agreement in which Mr. Smith's accomplishments in his communities and his bank account balance are tracked in a cryptographically secure and verifiable fashion. Mr. Smith tells the First Bank of Luna that they can convert his account balance of 10,000 credits into two High Favors. They deduct 10,000 credits and update their internal social network to say "Mr. Smith is now owed and should be given (what we call two High favors as players) should zie ask for them. Zie can cash out those two favors and recieve 10,000 credits in exchange if zie has not called in those favors before that time." The First Bank of Luna's databases now reflect the transaction, and the update is broadcast across the solar system to all of the other banks that work in the same way. Those updates are also broadcast to all of the entities in the solar system that care about someone vouching for someone else to do certain things of a certain magnetude. This means two things: First, Mr. Smith may now potentially be on the hook to do favors for other customers of the First Bank of Luna and every other entity that they have an agreement with, up to and bounded by what the game rules call two High favors to balance the books. Second, this puts every other entity and individual that is a customer of the FBoL or which has an agreement to do favors for them to do things for Mr. Smith up to and bounded by what the game rules call two High favors. What does everyone get out of this? Anyone who chooses to be a member of this pan-solar system network can say to the First Bank of Luna "Hey, can I have 10,000 credits drawn on your reputation network?" if they want to, and because the FBoL has lots of credits in their coffers, they can choose someone in that network more or less at random and say to them "Hello. You exchanged 10,000 credits for two High favors in our network. Another customer in our network wants to borrow 10,000 credits from you, and in exchange they will be liable for any two High favors you may ask of them (or they may transfer those favors to someone else in our network, on the same terms). May we give them those credits and put them on the hook to you?" If transhuman A declines, the LAIs running the reputation network move on to transhuman B, transhuman C, and so forth until they run into someone who accepts the deal. If not, chances are employees of the FBoL may be contracted to carry out (or broker) those favors to make the books line up at the end of the analysis period; they have lots of transhumans they can contract to carry out all sorts of weird tasks within specific parameters that ultimately make the books balance. Mr. Smith may even, as a customer worth lots of credits, be tasked with carrying out certain tasks wherever zie happens to be as a pre-requisite of doing business with the FBoL to make the books balance (as part of their AUP). Mr. Smith may ask the same thing of the FBoL and expect to get either credits, stuff, or work done for them on the same terms by someon in the same network who is physically near them. Everybody gets something they want from someone else when they ask for it (in theory; if they do not that is were reputation hits for not playing along with everyone else come in). At the end of the week, Mr. Smith cashes out his two unused High favors for a bank account balance of 10,000 credits. Someone else in the FBoL's reputation network is asked if 10,000 of their credits can be transferred to someone else in exchange for a couple of favors being brokered for them in the future, and the cycle begins all over again.