Hey all. This is something that has perplexed me for a long time. Guns are very common in Eclipse Phase and while a lot of combat may be taking place on a planet like Mars, what about firing guns on space habitats? What happens when someone fires a gun on a space habitat? Does it puncture a hole through the walls and cause all the air to be sucked out of the room? Are habitat walls so reinforced that they can withstand gun fire?
This seems to be a very important issue to have fleshed out. I understand that a lot of the habitats prohibit guns, but what if someone gets a gun on a habitat anyway, or fabricates one, or if you're on a scum barge you can probably find a gun.
If guns should never be fired on space habitats, then this makes melee combat much more useful.
Let me know your thoughts.
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Can Habitat Walls Withstand Gun Fire?
Thu, 2010-06-10 13:19
#1
Can Habitat Walls Withstand Gun Fire?
Thu, 2010-06-10 13:35
#2
Re: Can Habitat Walls Withstand Gun Fire?
Actually, I see now that on page 203 of the main book it gives stats for the armor and durability of habitat walls. I guess they can withstand a lot of damage up to a point. I assumed the walls would have to be pretty durable in order to withstand mini-asteroids, but nothing is indestructable. I'd still be curious to hear about how anyone's been handling this in their own games if you care to comment.
Thu, 2010-06-10 14:24
#3
Re: Can Habitat Walls Withstand Gun Fire?
Generally, I handle every wound to a wall as a puncture and potential breach. If a player wishes to intentionally breach a wall with a weapon incapable of dealing a wound, then taking down all hit oints is enough to completely take out a section of wall, enough so to cause a massive breach.
Also note that I generally handle melee combat in similar kind. Hand-to-hand combat that occurs close to a wall (such as in a grapple) risks damage to the wall just as easily as ranged combat. Luckily, melee damage tends to be far lower than ranged weapon damage.
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Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
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Thu, 2010-06-10 19:40
#4
Re: Can Habitat Walls Withstand Gun Fire?
How do you handle crits or called shots to ignore armour? I assume its just as normal and you say that the shot hit a weaker section, or maybe a windowed section?
Thu, 2010-06-10 20:34
#5
Re: Can Habitat Walls Withstand Gun Fire?
Keep in mind that habitat walls are going to have several layers of active and passive security. Their stats are pretty high (something like 500 armor, 1,000 durability?) which means they're not likely to be breached with any equipment you'd be permitted to carry in an inhabited habitat, and they'll be under several layers of surveillance against any sort of intentional or accidental breach (since, you know, breach = everyone dies). And all said and done, they're likely to shoot first and ask questions later.
Thu, 2010-06-10 20:55
#6
Re: Can Habitat Walls Withstand Gun Fire?
50 armor, not 500; habitat walls are very durable, but it's still very possible to punch a hole in them (albeit unlikely) with conventional weapons. I'm somewhat glad that they removed the table on page 348 detailing ship stats from the newest version of the book; it didn't really make sense to me that the walls of a ship have a thousand durability and plenty of armor, but the ship itself usually only had several-hundred points of durability and 30 or less armor.
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
[url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Tue, 2010-06-15 07:41
#7
Re: Can Habitat Walls Withstand Gun Fire?
While it seems that the external walls of (well constructed) habitats have advanced composite armor plating, it would seem to me that you wouldn't want to construct with too much mass. So I always describe the habitats and ships as having very lightweight interior construction. As a general rule, any firearm with an AP >5 will damage interior components should they miss (electrical components, plumbing, people in the next room, munitions locker, etc..). This encourages the use of low penetration weapons and ammo types. Even now in the modern world law enforcement don't use high penetration rounds because of the risk of a missed shot going through walls and hitting bystanders. If your players insist on having high powered firefights in tin cans you should describe it suitably and maybe even have an "oops the control room was behind that killbot you went full auto on" moment.
Tue, 2010-06-15 21:57
#8
Re: Can Habitat Walls Withstand Gun Fire?
You should also remember that this isn't the giant computers and buttons future that we see in sci-fi movies, however. This is a future where most people interact with devices wirelessly through computers implanted in their heads. Many ships and habitats are likely to have all of their interior components built into the very dense walling, and some may have no showing parts as they have no real need for a manual interface. They may require nano-tools to even do repairs and maintenance.
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
[url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Mon, 2010-06-21 11:51
#9
Re: Can Habitat Walls Withstand Gun Fire?
Very true Decivre, though I would imagine that some habitats would outlaw armour-piercing rounds just as a formality to avoid any unlikely (but still not impossible) damage to internal structures - even if the hull isn't in any real danger.
Tue, 2010-06-22 17:54
#10
Re: Can Habitat Walls Withstand Gun Fire?
Your comment made me think on the subject of just what authorities would specifically outlaw and search for, and I thought that gear and software tailored for electronic warfare would be seen more as a threat to the safety of a habitat than firearms. A high powered rifle can punch holes in a wall, but electronic warfare could completely devastate a habitat. It makes me think of what screening methods I should have players expect from high security habs - especially for for software that would be deemed illegal.
Tue, 2010-06-29 14:03
#11
Re: Can Habitat Walls Withstand Gun Fire?
In my latest game session the characters arrived at customs for an anarchist habitat. I rolled for how tough security was, and got 1%. So that week the habitat had a "honor system security check": please scan yourself if you want and state to the habitat representative if you have anything dangerous with you. The Chinese military swarmanoid "breathed" a sigh of relief...
(How could such a habitat survive? Maybe because some of the inhabitants have constructive paranoia as a hobby. Who said the official security check was the only one? ;-) )
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Tue, 2010-06-29 14:57
#12
Re: Can Habitat Walls Withstand Gun Fire?
Or because not everyone enjoys uncontrolled destruction.
Right?