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ID in EP

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Camwyn Camwyn's picture
ID in EP
...there is no genetic identity anymore ("Your daddy was a flat, your momma was a neot...") but we have ego ID's for inner-system folks.
  1. Of course, the questions beg asking - who assigns them?
    1. This requires some comment on the book, which says "...this ego ID is verifiable by the person's brainwave patterns"and then goes on to say "...this system is far from perfect...record-keeping is far from standardized." and "when autonomists and the like egocast to habitats that require ID, they are assigned a temporary ID for the duration of their stay (and sometimes any future visits)."
      1. I have issues with  the "temporary", as I can see no good reason for them to NOT keep the records indefinitely - for law enforcement if nothing else. With AIs to tend to mundane computation tasks (like record keeping) and infinite data storage, why would any government erase records? (excepting records for things they don't want leaking out...)
      2. I also have issues with the "far from perfect"as if we assume that ego ID is essentially "unhackable" (for the average Joe) then an ego ID is an ego ID...of course, different alliances could use different hashes (or the like) to generate their IDs, but it seems likely that some type of translation service is in place, otherwise there's NO verification of ID between alliances - you'd need a new ID for each alliance.
      3. Of course, this isn't really pertinent for the average Joe, but it could become very much so for PC Firewall agents...
  2. Is there "other" info coded into them? Do you believe that there wouldn't be? (I don't)
    1. "Race" (here meant to refer more to the uplifted, but YMMV.
    2. Criminal status?
    3. Notes on other things (pshychosurgery comes to mind).
    4. Perhaps your original DNA code? (might come in handy when trying to procreate!)
    5. Heck, your ego ID could become the equivalent of a passport...of course, there's always Darkcasting...
  3. Then we need to know what happens if someone decides to change theirs - for any reason.
  4. According to the book again, "Brainwave scans are one of the few types of biometric prints that stay with an ego no matter what morph it is in...These scans are all but impossible to fool, however, barring hacking of the brainprint scanner itself"
    1. Really, and what happens when you undergo psychosurgery, or contract Watts-Macleod? Since this would potentially change your brain physically as well as mentally, it should change your scan results...which would change your ID.
      1. I see all sorts of mayhem ensuing,
        1. your new scan happens to be identical to a missing criminal's
        2. you forgot to register your new scan with the proper authorities and can't prove you're YOU
        3. perhaps more horrifying, psychosurgeons are required (by law?) to register all patient before and after scans...hello Big Brother!
    2. Oh, and , ehrm,"hacking of the brainprint scanner itself "...you could hack the actual ID database...since I assume that each scanner would have to be hacked individually
  5. Now I have to ask, who can read this? Specifically the "extra info"
    1. "Well, Johnson, you are an excellent candidate for this job, but I notice you've had some pretty intensive psychosurgery in the past...tell me about it."
    2. "I'm sorry sir, but we are not allowing any immigrants from MeatLab beyond the reception area at this time...it's a security issue."
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: ID in EP
Camwyn wrote:
  1. Of course, the questions beg asking - who assigns them?
    1. This requires some comment on the book, which says "...this ego ID is verifiable by the person's brainwave patterns"and then goes on to say "...this system is far from perfect...record-keeping is far from standardized." and "when autonomists and the like egocast to habitats that require ID, they are assigned a temporary ID for the duration of their stay (and sometimes any future visits)."
      1. I have issues with  the "temporary", as I can see no good reason for them to NOT keep the records indefinitely - for law enforcement if nothing else. With AIs to tend to mundane computation tasks (like record keeping) and infinite data storage, why would any government erase records? (excepting records for things they don't want leaking out...)
      2. I also have issues with the "far from perfect"as if we assume that ego ID is essentially "unhackable" (for the average Joe) then an ego ID is an ego ID...of course, different alliances could use different hashes (or the like) to generate their IDs, but it seems likely that some type of translation service is in place, otherwise there's NO verification of ID between alliances - you'd need a new ID for each alliance.
      3. Of course, this isn't really pertinent for the average Joe, but it could become very much so for PC Firewall agents...
Ego IDs work very similar to the way that Identification works today; various factions and habitats hold their own databases containing information on their own people, which are accessed via mesh to verify Ego IDs. It works on a system of trust; we trust that people who have a Japanese ID aren't lying, because we trust Japan's database. This works in kind here. This may create scenarios in which your ID won't be recognized by another habitat solely because of negative sentiment between factions. As for autonomist habs, they do keep records within their respective reputation network, but do not require that fellow autonomists carry ID with them at all times. Autonomists have a high degree of personal freedom and privacy, and no direct legal expectations. However, they require IDs when they travel to habitats that require them... so they have an ID server set up which assigns you a temporary ID when you travel, likely loaded with information from the rep network. Some places may or may not recognize these, depending on their relationship with autonomists.
Camwyn wrote:
  • Is there "other" info coded into them? Do you believe that there wouldn't be? (I don't)
    1. "Race" (here meant to refer more to the uplifted, but YMMV.
    2. Criminal status?
    3. Notes on other things (pshychosurgery comes to mind).
    4. Perhaps your original DNA code? (might come in handy when trying to procreate!)
    5. Heck, your ego ID could become the equivalent of a passport...of course, there's always Darkcasting...
  • Ego ID is basically exactly that; a passport. It is required in certain habitats simply for the purpose of travel, and it is used for all other aspects as well (it will likely carry such information as whether you are licensed to drive a vehicle, own certain weapons, and other such issues). In that same vein, yes... criminal status, notes and all those aspects are likely carried within your ego ID. However, how much information is kept will largely depend on the habitat that issues your ID: going back to the autonomist habs, they likely don't have concepts like licenses and such... so autonomist-issued habs are likely to license you for everything and anything.
    Camwyn wrote:
  • Then we need to know what happens if someone decides to change theirs - for any reason.
  • Ego IDs are very difficult to change. For one thing, they are hash-encrypted and cross-referenced with a database. If you change the code on your nanotat, it's likely that your ID will not show up on the ID server it references. So long as they cannot verify who you are, you are likely to sit inside customs. This means that habitats on opposite sides of the solar system will probably take a very long time to transmit the necessary data for ID verification. Cross-referencing might involve checking with nearby locales which you may have visited previously, and see if they have info on who you are to speed up the process somewhat... you will likely be monitored very closely until your originating habitat responds with ID information, however.
    Camwyn wrote:
  • According to the book again, "Brainwave scans are one of the few types of biometric prints that stay with an ego no matter what morph it is in...These scans are all but impossible to fool, however, barring hacking of the brainprint scanner itself"
    1. Really, and what happens when you undergo psychosurgery, or contract Watts-Macleod? Since this would potentially change your brain physically as well as mentally, it should change your scan results...which would change your ID.
      1. I see all sorts of mayhem ensuing,
        1. your new scan happens to be identical to a missing criminal's
        2. you forgot to register your new scan with the proper authorities and can't prove you're YOU
        3. perhaps more horrifying, psychosurgeons are required (by law?) to register all patient before and after scans...hello Big Brother!
    2. Oh, and , ehrm,"hacking of the brainprint scanner itself "...you could hack the actual ID database...since I assume that each scanner would have to be hacked individually
  • Psychosurgery does not modify your brainwave patterns. Watts-Macleod can, but not in all cases. This does not, however, necessarily change your ID. Brainwave scans take far too long to be a logistically sound option, and require advanced machinery. IDs are generally checked simply by nanotat ID. Brainwave scans are likely only done at birth (to enter you into the database) and when you are suspected of identity theft or fraud (to see if you really are who your nanotat says you are).
    Camwyn wrote:
  • Now I have to ask, who can read this? Specifically the "extra info"
    1. "Well, Johnson, you are an excellent candidate for this job, but I notice you've had some pretty intensive psychosurgery in the past...tell me about it."
    2. "I'm sorry sir, but we are not allowing any immigrants from MeatLab beyond the reception area at this time...it's a security issue."
  • Again, this will depend on the issuing habitat and how much they respect your privacy. Places like the Junta or hypercorps are likely to grant this information to any authority figure that checks; while autonomist nations are likely to require you to grant permission for the release of information, via public key-encrypted signature (with exceptions; I doubt that most autonomist habs are going to hold back the fact that you're a wanted fugitive from those who check your ID).
    Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
    Camwyn Camwyn's picture
    Re: ID in EP
    Decivre wrote:
    As for autonomist habs, they do keep records within their respective reputation network, but do not require that fellow autonomists carry ID with them at all times. Autonomists have a high degree of personal freedom and privacy, and no direct legal expectations. However, they require IDs when they travel to habitats that require them... so they have an ID server set up which assigns you a temporary ID when you travel, likely loaded with information from the rep network. Some places may or may not recognize these, depending on their relationship with autonomists.
    Hmmm...the way I read that part was that the temp ID is issued by the place you are visiting. (particularly the “any future visits “)
    Camwyn wrote:
  • Is there "other" info coded into them? Do you believe that there wouldn't be? (I don't)
    1. "Race" (here meant to refer more to the uplifted, but YMMV.
    2. Criminal status?
    3. Notes on other things (pshychosurgery comes to mind).
    4. Perhaps your original DNA code? (might come in handy when trying to procreate!)
    5. Heck, your ego ID could become the equivalent of a passport...of course, there's always Darkcasting...
  • Ego ID is basically exactly that; a passport. It is required in certain habitats simply for the purpose of travel, and it is used for all other aspects as well (it will likely carry such information as whether you are licensed to drive a vehicle, own certain weapons, and other such issues). In that same vein, yes... criminal status, notes and all those aspects are likely carried within your ego ID. However, how much information is kept will largely depend on the habitat that issues your ID: going back to the autonomist habs, they likely don't have concepts like licenses and such... so autonomist-issued habs are likely to license you for everything and anything.
    Decivre wrote:
    Ego IDs are very difficult to change. For one thing, they are hash-encrypted and cross-referenced with a database. If you change the code on your nanotat, it's likely that your ID will not show up on the ID server it references. So long as they cannot verify who you are, you are likely to sit inside customs. This means that habitats on opposite sides of the solar system will probably take a very long time to transmit the necessary data for ID verification. Cross-referencing might involve checking with nearby locales which you may have visited previously, and see if they have info on who you are to speed up the process somewhat... you will likely be monitored very closely until your originating habitat responds with ID information, however.
    Actually, I have a two-part response to this. 1) Hack the dB and 2) if this were really true, there would be no fake Ids...because using one would leave you sitting in customs... And two notes: 1)this is not a player looking for loopholes, this is a GM scouting for loopholes and filling in gaps and 2)I'm not talking about changing ID's on the fly, or trying to do it [i]after[/i] you reach the other end of your journey, I'm talking about planning ahead. A permanent change.
    Decivre wrote:
    Psychosurgery does not modify your brainwave patterns. Watts-Macleod can, but not in all cases. This does not, however, necessarily change your ID. Brainwave scans take far too long to be a logistically sound option, and require advanced machinery. IDs are generally checked simply by nanotat ID. Brainwave scans are likely only done at birth (to enter you into the database) and when you are suspected of identity theft or fraud (to see if you really are who your nanotat says you are).
    Really? “Psychosurgery is a modification to the transhuman mind [i]and sometimes to the actual person that resides in that mind[/i] (emphasis mine – read “ego”) so something that changes the mind-and since they make the distinction I would assume a physical/neurological change doesn't effect an EEG? From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroencephalography#Normal_activity “A decrease in gamma band activity may be associated with cognitive decline” which sounds a lot like a change in your COG aptitude...in fact, why wouldn't an implant change it? No, it doesn't change your ID, but if it does change your scan it makes your ID worthless... ...and when did 5 minutes become such a long time? Maybe at the airport in line, but not at the resleeving facility...or (let's get silly-paranoid) on a bus ride...
    Decivre Decivre's picture
    Re: ID in EP
    Camwyn wrote:
    Hmmm...the way I read that part was that the temp ID is issued by the place you are visiting. (particularly the “any future visits “)
    I think you're right. This is actually more likely than the theory I proposed. Of course, such temporary IDs likely carry some baggage with them... much like alien cards today.
    Camwyn wrote:
    Actually, I have a two-part response to this. 1) Hack the dB and 2) if this were really true, there would be no fake Ids...because using one would leave you sitting in customs... And two notes: 1)this is not a player looking for loopholes, this is a GM scouting for loopholes and filling in gaps and 2)I'm not talking about changing ID's on the fly, or trying to do it [i]after[/i] you reach the other end of your journey, I'm talking about planning ahead. A permanent change.
    Hacking the database is likely difficult, if not impossible to do from outside sources... but it does not invalidate fake IDs. Remember that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and it only takes one official who's willing to take a payoff to open any database to "hacking". This is probably how Fake IDs work in the Eclipse Phase universe; the money you pay to purchase one likely goes to the various paper-pushers and other proper channels to let the fake data slip into the cracks and allow the falsification of identity.
    Camwyn wrote:
    Really? “Psychosurgery is a modification to the transhuman mind [i]and sometimes to the actual person that resides in that mind[/i] (emphasis mine – read “ego”) so something that changes the mind-and since they make the distinction I would assume a physical/neurological change doesn't effect an EEG? From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroencephalography#Normal_activity “A decrease in gamma band activity may be associated with cognitive decline” which sounds a lot like a change in your COG aptitude...in fact, why wouldn't an implant change it? No, it doesn't change your ID, but if it does change your scan it makes your ID worthless... ...and when did 5 minutes become such a long time? Maybe at the airport in line, but not at the resleeving facility...or (let's get silly-paranoid) on a bus ride...
    Psychosurgery is still a field in its infancy... the amount of modification that we are capable of doing to another mind is still relatively limited. And yes, even dramatic mental changes don't change your brainwave patterns... your delta forks still have the same patterns as you, meaning that they can be traced back to you. Lastly, it does not invalidate your ID unless a brainwave scan is performed. Your nanotat remains legitimate despite any brain modifications. Five minutes might not seem like a long time, but you also have to remember volume: brainprint scanners are high-end devices, on par with catscans today, and processing all the people that come through customs a day is going to be a nightmare. A single brainprint scanner can only process 288 people in a 24-hour period (if you literally do them back to back without stopping the scanner, through 24 straight hours), and most places are likely to have higher volume. Brainprint scanners are generally used at high-security locations (military facilities, hypercorp labs), but not at the standard customs station of any given habitat. Not to mention that most people likely don't have a brainwave scan on record; much like DNA today, such invasive signature techniques are likely reserved for people in high-security careers and serious criminal records. Many locations still respect a person's sense of privacy, especially out in the autonomist sector.
    Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]