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Lizardy Scum Barge

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Wed, 2010-04-28 10:11

Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture

Lizardy Scum Barge

I was wondering something while watching yesterday's episode of V would a Visitor Mothership work as scumbarge? I took a couple screenshots of the presentation Anna gave to the new live-in residents, and it look pretty nifty [IMG]http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad130/Quincey_Forder/vlcsnap-2010-04-... [IMG]http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad130/Quincey_Forder/vlcsnap-2010-04-...

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Tue, 2010-05-11 18:07

Camwyn

Re: Lizardy Scum Barge

too...clean.

Tue, 2010-05-11 19:55

Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture

Re: Lizardy Scum Barge

I don't believe that all barges are rustbuckets, to be honnest. I think some are, indeed, too clean, because the top officer are neat freaks, or the barge used to be a mobie laboratory, a travelling hospital, maybe? Wouldn't that be a shock for the sentinels to discover? they board the barge, expecting to discover a spacial favela, a drifting bidonville and what they get is a mix between Gattaca and Brave New World! "We are of peace...Always. So shut the hell up!"

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Tue, 2010-05-11 21:35

Decivre

Re: Lizardy Scum Barge

Scum barge is a bit of a misnomer; the "scum" in the name refers to the group of space gypsies that these barges have become synonymously linked to... not to the classic usage of the term "scum". In fact, the term "barge" is also used incorrectly. Barges refer to ships with open-topped storage space, for hauling low-cost goods and other bulk materials (like garbage) en masse. Scum barges are obviously not open-topped. It's made fairly obvious that the term "scum barge" is more of a derogatory euphemism referring to the fact that they have largely been converted to habitats by the Scum, and refers to the fact that they were designed to be cramped with people (like how a modern barge is usually stacked tall with goods or trash).

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Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Tue, 2010-05-11 21:50

Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture

Re: Lizardy Scum Barge

so a clean-y Visitor mothership could very well be used as Scum Barge, then? cool! I fell in love with the V-2K9's mothership since they showed first. The fact that it's not all corridors and rooms, but actually a travelling city was really neat. I've been a fan of this configuration ever since the SDF-1, and later, the Macross 7 "oyster" ship. Not all Scum Barges are like that, I know, but the fact that some can be, are like that...that gives plenty ideas to play with the misnommer.

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Tue, 2010-05-11 23:41

Decivre

Re: Lizardy Scum Barge

Quincey Forder wrote:
so a clean-y Visitor mothership could very well be used as Scum Barge, then? cool! I fell in love with the V-2K9's mothership since they showed first. The fact that it's not all corridors and rooms, but actually a travelling city was really neat. I've been a fan of this configuration ever since the SDF-1, and later, the Macross 7 "oyster" ship. Not all Scum Barges are like that, I know, but the fact that some can be, are like that...that gives plenty ideas to play with the misnommer.

I think it should be noted that concepts of cleanliness change over time, and standards tend to increase. For instance, in the early 1800s people generally bathed once or twice a week or less. Peeing in the street was both legal and standard, and the concept of sterilization didn't even exist yet. Today, it's not that uncommon for the middle class to bathe everyday or every other day, people only pee on the curb when drunk or stupid, and sterility has become nearly ubiquitous in our culture. In a future where nanomachines can clean all the surfaces in your house automatically on a microscopic scale or smaller, and biological implants can literally make your shit not stink, standards of cleanliness are likely to be far higher than ours are today. This would especially be true in a microgravity environment, like what you would find on a scum barge. Free-floating dust and particles are a serious electronics and fire hazard in such an environment, and people would likely take drastic steps to make sure they aren't present. Most notably, the scum are big on body modification... and I'd imagine the concept of sterility would be important to them for obvious reasons.

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Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Wed, 2010-05-12 08:45

Camwyn

Re: Lizardy Scum Barge

All right, not all of them... But, remember these were some of the first ships used for the evac of Earth, designed to hold 20,000 in cramped quarters. I can totally imagine them needing constant repair and updates because their construction was rushed.

Quote:
The worst use aging plasma rockets and stretch their life support systems and living spaces to the limit, carrying up to 25,000 poor and desperate residents." Doesn't sound healthy and tidy to me. Aside from which, they get marked right off the bat as "space gypsies" which (depending on your mental image of gypsies) be a glaring contrast to a very neat and clean, well-repaired ship.

That's the [i]worst[/i] of them...remember not all Scum have barges...they could as easily be bopping around in a flotilla of smaller ships. Further, who said anything about free-floating dust? Of course there will be some, you can't avoid it unless you do something really weird to morph genes to keep them from shedding skin cells (but then what would they do, shed like a snake?) but I was thinking of things like water vapor, bacteria and mold/mildew...all things we deal with now in space. From the ISS: [img=240x360]http://www.science.nasa.gov/media/medialibrary/2007/05/11/11may_locad3_r... Here's an article about it from NASA: http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2007/11may_locad3/ And yes, the medical facilities would have to be sterile, but you cannot expect a ship to be so...even with genetech to make my shit smell like roses...LOL

Wed, 2010-05-12 16:00

Decivre

Re: Lizardy Scum Barge

But again, remember that the ISS doesn't have access to nanotechnology or AI on anything near the same level that even common people in Eclipse Phase has. Other than the destitute, bioconservative extremists and perhaps the clanking masses, most common people are likely to have access to such things as cleaner nanobots to eliminate most dirt and even mold from virtually any surface of a habitat, and even from the open air. Scum society is fairly anarchistic, so it is very likely that they have access to nanofabricators and other nanotechnology. They have the means to keep their ships clean. Also, as I said, cleanliness is relative to the times. What we consider clean today may be absolutely filthy in a world of nanotechnology... and someone who lives like a slob in 10AF may be pretty tidy by our standards today. My next door neighbor steam cleans her carpets every month; her entire house once every 30 days or so. I consider her a neat freak for it, but her carpets are nothing compared to what they would be if she had automated nanobots maintaining the floors 24/7.

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Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Sat, 2010-05-15 23:06

weavermount weavermount's picture

Re: Lizardy Scum Barge

My take is that spaceship health reflects community health. Even the poorest barges could organize kids with 'pals' for a 'blue berry hunt' where they send the kids out of blogject collectors to scrub down for errant bio-mass and turn it into a treat for them. With a little more money well designed air flow and nanites could also knock out the issue. But all this comes down to community co-operation. If you have slum lords who don't give a shit about there tenets breathing mold they wont bother to keep the nanohives stocked. Similarly maybe you don't have some "neighborhoods" on a ship don't really trust others have have built redundant life support systems that don't play nice. My feeling is that not even the poorest of the poor /have/ to be dirty, but then again we didn't /have/ to watch Gaia burn. short version. Use it as a narrative tool. Narrative tools are more valuable than diamond hard sci-fi

Sun, 2010-05-16 00:36

#10

nick012000 nick012000's picture

Re: Lizardy Scum Barge

I don't think slums really exist anymore anywhere outside of the Jovian Junta, and even there they mostly just have the same problems with homelessness as modern Earth cities. I'll also point out that scum barges are hardly poor and impoverished. Basically, the anarchists form three broad groups: the extropians, who are libertarians/anarcho-capitalists; the anarchists, who are anarcho-communists; and the scum, who are anarcho-hedonists. The other two care about other things, be it the good of the community or the advancement of the individual, while the scum use transhuman technology to kick back, and enjoy the good times. Why bother working, when your AIs can run all the processes to keep the hab running and anything you want can be had by just going up to a nanofabricator?

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+1 r-Rep , +1 @-rep

Sun, 2010-05-16 01:51

#11

Decivre

Re: Lizardy Scum Barge

nick012000 wrote:
I don't think slums really exist anymore anywhere outside of the Jovian Junta, and even there they mostly just have the same problems with homelessness as modern Earth cities. I'll also point out that scum barges are hardly poor and impoverished. Basically, the anarchists form three broad groups: the extropians, who are libertarians/anarcho-capitalists; the anarchists, who are anarcho-communists; and the scum, who are anarcho-hedonists. The other two care about other things, be it the good of the community or the advancement of the individual, while the scum use transhuman technology to kick back, and enjoy the good times. Why bother working, when your AIs can run all the processes to keep the hab running and anything you want can be had by just going up to a nanofabricator?

I'm pretty sure that the clanking masses live in what is the equivalent to a slum. As synthmorphs that have no need for food and shelter, people have less incentive to show them any sort of charity... many likely live in alleys or squatter buildings with charging stations built specifically to house them. Cleanliness wouldn't be all too necessary, because synthmorphs don't have any expectancy or need for sterility, even during maintenance.

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Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Sun, 2010-05-16 05:44

#12

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture

Re: Lizardy Scum Barge

Cleanliness seems to be a social signal, maybe because it is also an honest indicator of motivational level. Cleaning is essentially a low-priority task that indicates that one values the future and outside appearance and takes a certain amount of motivation to do. Even if doing it is just to compile a bunch of cleaningbots, you need to make that decision. People who have low levels of motivation due to exhaustion, depression, distraction or drug use (or do not notice their environment) will not do it. The other side is a feeling of responsibility. One reason some environments do not get cleaned is that they do not "belong" to anybody, and people expect that if they clean their part others will litter. I think weavermount is right: this is a pretty strong indicator of community health. It might be a less reliable indicator thank today thanks to robotics and rising cleanliness standards since it only takes a few neat freaks to brush up a space, but I doubt the underlying dynamics will change. If a habitat has no hope or social divisions, there will be some kind of litter. Maybe the dust gets eaten by Old Man Zhoucheng's nanites, but nobody picks up the drifting petals or repairs the gun holes in the walls.

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