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Raining in New Pittsburgh?

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Tzimize Tzimize's picture
Raining in New Pittsburgh?
Hi In sunward we can read the following "The climate of the dome is extravagantly humid, tuned for frequent drizzles" Drizzles? This is rigorous with science? rain under the dome? how is this? There is a very famous myth that in the hangar of the nasa it rains, but it is false. This is something like that? Thanks, fellows
UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
The NASA hangar probably isn
The NASA hangar probably isn't a completely sealed nor is it the size of a large city (or the borough of one). I'm not a climatology expert, but theoretically if humidity was high enough you could get enough water in the air it would rise to the top and condense, forming a drizzle. Proper clouds? Probably too much. Water condenses on the top of the dome and drips back down? Maybe. And seems to, based on the writing.
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ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
you can have an enclosed
you can have an enclosed space with a lack of airflow as to cause condensation when humidity reaches a threshold. a bit anecdotal but i know a person who knew a person who went complete overkill on the insulation and filling every seam in the house he built. it rains in the living room every time they do laundry. the dome of new Pittsburgh is probably little with small stalagmites to encourage condensation to drip down into the city rather than run down the arched walls,
Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
The Martian city is much
The Martian city is much larger than any building made yet There's whole lakes under the dome. Er Wang Dong cave is probably a better "structure" for reference, and it has fog and rain clouds form inside without weather control. I think it's definitely possible with EP life support tech.
MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture
If they wanted it to Rain,
If they wanted it to Rain, then yea, I think it would be luxurious spending for that hab but it feels within the capability of EP tech. But to say that it happen as part of the structure volume and humanity, that hard to say yes or no without getting way more exact details.
Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
The ISS is a bad example size
The ISS is a bad example size-wise, but it is similar in that it's a (mostly) closed circuit life support system. My understanding is that the ISS regulates humidity by dehumidifying the air rather than adding water vapor to dry air. IIRC the ISS would become extremely swampy without the regulation. From that, I think it would be possible for a large closed circuit life support system to be kept wet without a lot of extra effort.
CordialUltimate2 CordialUltimate2's picture
Tzimize wrote:There is a very
Tzimize wrote:
There is a very famous myth that in the hangar of the nasa it rains, but it is false.
It is not a urban legend nor a myth. It was an actual problem stemming form Florida hot, humid climate and use of air conditioning inside the Vehicle Assembly Building. Hot air was entering the building and then rising to the upper parts of it there mixing with the output of air conditioning it was cooled beyond its dew point. In effect you got a lot of condensation and moisture, which could be hardly classified as rain but it was certainly detrimental for all the machinery held there. It has long since been corrected. The biggest hangar in the world (IIRC located in Pitsburgh) was without any air conditioning to prevent the same problem. It is not stretch to imagine that a habitat of sufficient size could be designed to enhance such effects instead of preventing them. Rain is after all something that most od humanity doesn't experience outside of the simulspaces for most of the time. It would require masterful use of fluid dynamics on a mass scale and tremendous energy expenditure to control it but in essence it would be just a giant condenser, maybe shaped like inverted grass/lawn, which would be kept at a temperature few degrees below the temperature of the rest of the dome. All the rising hot air would carry moisture that condensed on the ceiling. Due to the complicated nature of the system rain would be chaotic. Question: Is Mars terraformed enough to have rains? Disclaimer: My grammar may be terrible but I hope you all understand me :-)
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Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
I don't think Mars has rain
I don't think Mars has rain outside the domes, as it barely has surface water yet. There might be a little bit in some of the lowlands though.
CordialUltimate2 CordialUltimate2's picture
Maybe there is condensation
Maybe there is condensation on canyon walls of Noxis.
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sanjuro89 sanjuro89's picture
It is definitely possible to
It is definitely possible to create an artificial cloud inside a building using climate engineering techniques: Cloudscapes by Transsolar + Tetsuo Kondo Whether something like this would be feasible on the scale of a Martian city dome is open to question.
Kurt McMahon
Xoden Xoden's picture
I'd say if definitely
I'd say it's definitely feasible and could be both either a pre-designed feature or a result of an unaccounted oversight partially mitigated by some later fixes and rework. However, dealing with the effects of humidity on such a large scale and all the life that tries to develop there is going a major pain in the are of local life support crew. You even could probably base a few stories around this: Some local(?) Anon(s) once boasted that they though up a way to spike the whole system and make the rain 'happy'. Recently they has gone silent. Maybe it wasn't just idle chatting.... Drunk men tend to talk about their jobs and often far more than they are willing to say with a sober mind. On a routine party a friend of friend was a bit more drunk and grumbly than usual. Apparently, the common mold has become surprisingly persistent lately, and even cleaner nanoswarms have to take extra time and effort to remove it now. The higher-ups are, as always, reluctant to acknowledge any any problems...
Tzimize Tzimize's picture
CordialUltimate2 wrote
CordialUltimate2 wrote:
Tzimize wrote:
There is a very famous myth that in the hangar of the nasa it rains, but it is false.
It is not a urban legend nor a myth.
Condensation is not rain. I can quote the book “Moonport – A History of Apollo launch facilities and operations”. Another source is the book "Apollo: The Race to the Moon”. "Foggy", or "condensation" is not rain or drizzle. Anycase, the drizzle in pittsburgh is too nice to ignore :-) Thanks to everyone
CordialUltimate2 CordialUltimate2's picture
Well, it was a
Well, it was a misunderstanding then. Your statement about the rain being a myth coupled with your uncertainty about the drizzle in Pittsburgh gave me the idea that you disbelieved the idea at all. In the case of NASA hangar: the moisture tends to condense on already existing objects and can be sort of metastable if such are not present. That's why seeding clouds with dust, or fireworks, gives us the rain. In the hangar the alreadyexisting objects were all the equipment and such. So it probably never was anything more than annoying dripping, annoying for humans, less healthy for machines. Pittsburgh is just a case of much larger scale and of course transhuman engineering
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Michael Crichton Michael Crichton's picture
When I was in Basic Training...
... And the Drill Sergeants really wanted to mess with us, they told us we'd have to do PT until the walls got tired from watching. How would we know they were tired? When they started sweating, of course. Sure enough, water condensed on the walls eventually. Ceiling, too :-). Given the sort of technology they have in EP, it should be trivially easy for them to actually make mini-clouds that precipitate rather than just relying on surface condensation.