How would [b]I[/b] do it? With a lot of homebrew. That thing is seriously scary, especially with that retarded Fray. Like, seriously, having a Fray score that high on something that deadly and destructive is kind of absurd. Five Sentinels, eh? Okay. [b]Assuming[/b] that they all have Pilot Groundcraft and Gunnery at acceptable levels... I'd go looking for old Fall-era war machines to appropriate and modify. When you're fighting cheese, go brie or go home. I'm assuming that the players have decided that if the enemy is going to field a tank staffed by infomorphs, they're okay with forking a lot, because they're gonna have to. Remember the old military saw: if you want to kill a unit of X size, send a unit of 3(X) size. For surity's sake, I'm going to send a unit of 5(x) size, since I'm assuming they're not as minmaxxed as the M-285's infomorph pilots; I'm also going to assume that the group in question have the full details of what this monster is, and what it's equipped with, and have time and the crazy resources to plan a specific counter, either by stealing it, borrowing it, or manufacturing it. Also note that under the copious amounts of house-rules I'm assuming, the M-285 would be considered Very Large, and thus attacks against it would be at a +20, not +10. Consult the [url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GuzXZqxpx2ASImLs_0QzDqafJ7WflOnBTta3... of Armaments[/url] for weapons mods I'm going to mention, and [url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XvmBHr2Aq24qKToRkKCiDhlUFp6zgXV0zruy... for the heavy-duty warmachine armor. Assume that every vehicle on this list is, if possible, equipped with [url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TlVeDGs3wNuf6QycaQIREKdBUEQ8h0PNsLWD... Handling, Improved Speed, and a Heavy Bumper.[/url] Because sometimes, ramming works, and "hit the big heavy thing with another big heavy thing" is a perfectly valid tactic. Every vehicle is also going to have to be upgraded with a [i]full[/i] sensor suite; every sensor known to man, in fact. You may as well, since most of them are dirt cheap, and you [i]know[/i] this tachkioma fucker has five nines of stealth. You may as well give them stealth mods, too. Every vehicle is also going to have some kind of target-designation system to boot, because any of them could wind up spotting and calling in fire for the seekers. [h1]The Heavy Tank[/h1] I'd start with an [url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TlVeDGs3wNuf6QycaQIREKdBUEQ8h0PNsLWD... Tyrannosaur[/url] at the point man. This heavy tank has enough DUR and WT to meet the M-285 head-on. The Tyrannosaur desperately wants to bait the M-285 into a stand-up fight, because if it succeeds, [i]it will win[/i] trading body-blows with Drive Factory, assuming both are equally ept (or inept) at landing hits. [b]Mods:[/b] Replace Industrial Warmachine Armor (+16/+24) with Medium Warmachine Armor (+30/+30), increasing its armor values to 50. It can keep the Heavy Artillery Cannon, but we want the magazine loaded with [url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GuzXZqxpx2ASImLs_0QzDqafJ7WflOnBTta3... Fin-Stabalized Discarding Sabot[/url] munitions and [url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GuzXZqxpx2ASImLs_0QzDqafJ7WflOnBTta3... Lance Anti-Tank[/url]. The HMG on the co-ax is almost certainly not going to contribute to this fight, but there's no reason [i]not[/i] to replace it with a Heavy Machine Railgun and equip it with AP rounds. It's also going to be equipped with four [url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GuzXZqxpx2ASImLs_0QzDqafJ7WflOnBTta3... Racks[/url] loaded with [url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GuzXZqxpx2ASImLs_0QzDqafJ7WflOnBTta3... Lance Anti-Tank[/url] Seekers (Standard size). The reason for this is twofold: Firstly, the Tachikoma might engage one of the other units outside of cannon range/with the Tyrannosaur out of line of sight to it, and you want to be able to shoot back. Secondly, the M-285 might get [i]above[/i] the tyrannosaur if you're fighting in built-up areas, where the main cannon cannot elevate to engage. But a seeker rack mounted on a fully-articulated turret [i]can[/i] aim straight up and feed the damn thing a giant middle-finger made of plasma. [h1]The Light Tank[/h1] An [url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TlVeDGs3wNuf6QycaQIREKdBUEQ8h0PNsLWD... Allosaur[/url] is the point-man's right hand. Faster, less-armored and less heavily gunned, the Allosaur is suppose to get behind the M-285 if it obliges the Tyrannosaur in a stand-up fight, and start putting shells into its arse. [b]Mods[/b]. The Allosaur keeps its Light Artillery Cannon, and arms its magazine the same way the Tyrannosaur does. It swaps its coax MMG with a coax HMRG, loaded with AP. For the same reasons the Tyrannosaur does, the Allosaur brings four Seeker Racks with four PLAT Standard Seekers. Do not bother to mount a pintle-mounted MMG, since nobody should be unbuttoned in this fight. [h1]The Staff Car[/h1] An [url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TlVeDGs3wNuf6QycaQIREKdBUEQ8h0PNsLWD... Utahraptor[/url] is the scout. This thing's whole job is to be [i]faster[/i] than the damn giant tachikoma. Sure, the giant tachikoma can go up walls, but the Utahraptor is [b]fast[/b]. [b]Mods:[/b] Unmount the pintle-mounted MMG; it won't be needed. Mount a [url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GuzXZqxpx2ASImLs_0QzDqafJ7WflOnBTta3... Laser Cannon[/url] and two coaxial Seeker Racks on a fully-articulated turret. The Standard Seeker Rack is carrying the same PLAT Seekers the tanks are carrying on their seeker rifles. [h1]The Dune Buggy[/h1] An [url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TlVeDGs3wNuf6QycaQIREKdBUEQ8h0PNsLWD... Dune Devil[/url] is the [i]bait[/i]. This thing [i]cannot[/i] take a hit from the M-285. Whoever's piloting this thing had better be insanely good, and preferably suicidal. This thing shares scouting duty with the Utahraptor, but it is not supposed to engage; it's supposed to get sensors on the target and then take off at sanic speed, daring the M-285 to chase it; hopefully, into open terrain where the others can engage. [b]Mods:[/b] The Dune Devil should be equipped with five nines of electronic warfare geegaws designed to get attention, make it look like it's a bunch of contacts altogether. It's [i]bait[/i], after all. Equip the Dune Devil with a [url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GuzXZqxpx2ASImLs_0QzDqafJ7WflOnBTta3... Seeker Rifle[/url] carrying PLAT Seekers and a magazine size of at least 6. I don't expect it to get six Seekers off, but this is more for the pilot's morale than anything else. Being without a weapon is not the same thing as having a weapon you do not intend to use immediately. [h1]The Rocket Artillery[/h1] Lastly, assuming you can pull it off, an [url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TlVeDGs3wNuf6QycaQIREKdBUEQ8h0PNsLWD... Mjolnir[/url] rocket artillery is your hammer. Once you lock the damn thing down with the others, this sonofabitch opens up at long range. This will work best if you can bait the Drive Factory into open terrain, but it [i]will[/i] work in a built-up area, assuming you can keep the target painted long enough for an up-and-down plunging shot from faraway to hit it. [b]Mods:[/b] Unlike the others, the Mjolnir does [b]not[/b] have added Warmachine Armor. It [i]should not be directly engaging the target.[/i] If it is, something has gone [i]horribly[/i] wrong. Go ahead and give it standard Synthmorph Heavy Combat Armor (giving it an armor rating of 36/36) just so the pilots don't feel like you don't care about them without compromising its speed, but don't expect it to stand up if the Tankikoma brings its main cannon to bear. (It should bounce the particle bolters, though.) [b]Do not[/b] deploy strategic scale weapons to kill one tank. Firewall won't appreciate it; the Consortium and Barsoomians will appreciate it even less. Instead, this thing should be carrying four pods containing 3x Light Artillery Seekers (for a total of 12 Light Artillery Seekers) and two pods containing 1x Heavy Artillery Seeker. The Heavy Artillery Seekers should have Thermobaric warheads, because if the sonofabitch goes to ground inside heavy ruins, you're going to want to just flatten them on top of it rather than try to Stalingrad him. Six of the Light Artillery Seekers should [i]also[/i] be Thermobaric, for the same reason (assuming you only need to flatten a large building instead of a heavy-duty industrial complex), the other six should be [url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GuzXZqxpx2ASImLs_0QzDqafJ7WflOnBTta3... Lance Anti Tank[/url], for when and if the others bait him into open terrain, so you can just drop a cruise missile on its dome. If the thing is [i]definitely[/i] not coming out into open terrain, though, make it four Thermobaric Heavy Artillery Seekers and 6 Thermobaric Light Artillery Seekers; any time it finds cover, bring the cover down on its head. Either it'll stop trying and the tanks can finish it off with direct fire, or you'll smash it.

MrWigggles wrote:

Well ShadowDragons wins on style points.

Sometimes you've gotta sneak and be sneaky. Sometimes you've gotta deploy the Fist of Mars. And who [i]hasn't[/i] wanted an excuse to cut loose and go full-scale armored company on someone? I mean, most GMs would probably make it hard-to-impossible to get anything bigger than the Utahraptor and Dune Devil, but even so, a few Utahraptors and Dune Devils with Laser Cannons and Standard PLAT seekers would be a credible fighting force against the Tankikoma.

Infect it with a nanovirus.

That sounds like a PC solution if I ever heard of one.

I have not read or played the FBH stuff, but I would use (or would expect from my players) a fully out-of-band solution Something like: [list]- social engineering - talking it down - resolving whatever root-cause put it there in the first place. - Hacking it - hacking the environment around it - sabotaging it's sub components such as the wheels - Finding a way to make it redundant or preventing it from completing it's mission, so you can just walk away and ignore it - Tattling to the proper military that someone has a TANK on the loose, so they can pulse a couple hundred gigawatts through it from orbit. [/list] If it came down to actually fighting with military hardware, the kid gloves come off. Whatever social pressure lets most games of EP emulate the shootout at the O.K. corral would be dust on the wind. Heavily optimized informorphs running in accelerated simulspaces would use teamwork to operate any weapons in play, and the things speed, stealth, and fray skill would be meaningless. The weapons would be distributed to swarms of drones, and the targeting AI clusters would be massively forked. directional lasers would keep them in sync, and hundreds of weapons in a 10km radius cloud would concentrate fire on the same point at the same moment. This would happen much like modern naval battlegroups can coordinate to time their shots to all land at the same time on the same target. Except with much more precision, and on a much larger scale. Then proper Consortium military would roll in and make an example of the players, incarcerating them, emptying their accounts, blackballing them, wiping backups, etc. This would reinforce the social norms that let the next game be about the shootout at the O.K. corral again, and not escalating swarms of semi-intelligent autonomous weapon systems.

Baribal wrote:

Since I'm not familiar with the adventure, I have no idea about what is available, and how much destruction is required.

What's available depends on the players and how much bullshit the GM will let them get away with and, potentially, on whether or not they've done a previous mission that gained them access to a Fall-war TITAN tactical antimatter weapon. My first suggestion was to acquire and deploy an entire armored company, with two tanks, two fast outriders, and remote [i]rocket artillery[/i].

Quote:

Are the tank operators EWAR-savvy enough to only communicate over hardlines, and only rely on data cached in the tank? No? Then hack the hell out of it.

The tank's operators are a bunch of infomorphs living on it that ignore radio communications, only communicating with their owners via qubit reservoir, so hacking the hell out of it is very much a nonstarter, doubly so with a massive set of zappers that will prevent any kind of intrusion nanites that might build a radio onto it.

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Are we in an urban environment?

The Fuxingmen is the abandoned neighbors surrounding the city of Olympus which were cleared out of free but impoverished Martians under false pretenses during the Fall. It's inhabited, somewhat, by various gangs, criminals, and other unsavory sorts, as well as plenty of corporate black labs and shit. Think "Redmond Barrens" if you're familiar with Shadowrun and you're close to the right lines.

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How much time, resources and foreknowledge do I have to prepare bridges to collapse under it, or large buildings on top of it?

That was not specified, but remember that this is a gigantic Arachnoid morph, and you're on Mars. Collapsing buildings on top of it is a lot less deadly than on Earth, and it would almost certainly survive a bridge collapsing entirely unscathed. It cannot fly, but it can [u]climb[/u] and [i]leap[/i].

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Are we chasing through a canyon labyrinth on Mars? A nice little landslide would surely slow it down for a few days or months.

Abandoned/gone-to-the-bad urban terrain with a tank-sized Arachnoid with literally every stealth enhancement known to transhumanity. This is not a main battle tank in the traditional sense; a landslide wouldn't even slow it [i]down[/i], even if it was lured out into open/canyon terrain.

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For that matter, is there time enough to divert an ice meteorite headed for Mars? Or a mass-driver-slung ingot on its way from Venus or Mercury? Those leave nice impact craters.

You'd be aiming within 10km of the base of the Olympus Mons space elevator. The Consortium response would escalate the situation far, far beyond your little overgrown Arachnikoma problem, and they'd intercept any such weapons.

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Is there enough time to subvert orbital weaponry or habitat defense systems? Are we on a habitat that can stand to lose a few sections?

You're in the abandoned urban area surrounding Olympus, so the Consortium would probably be [i]happy[/i] to see those sections go; if it didn't mean someone was playing with WMDs near [i]their freaking space elevator.[/i] "Subverting" orbital or hab-defense weapons in the area is extremely unlikely to work, and will draw a massive, monumental response. Now, if you could expose this tank to the Consortium, [i]they'd deal with it for you[/i], because a vehicular plasma rifle on a tank with five nines of stealth within 10km of their space elevator is a legitimate threat to critical infrastructure. So you can "subvert" habitat defenses in the sense that if you can make the Consortium believe in this thing and give them good intel on its whereabouts and capabilities, the city militia of Olympus Mons should flatten it for you.

The OIA isn't going to let an iceteroid get close to the space elevator, and they have the firepower to stop that. Similarly, employing WMDs against a Martian city-state and Planetary Consortium member is a bad idea, or at least grossly out of proportion. It's really a lot like killing a T-80 with a B61 nuclear bomb. It's just a tank. Scan it with a radar drone from outside it's short combat range and shoot it with two vehicle scale HEAP seekers, which on average, should blow through it's death rating. Total operational cost should be about 10k credits of expendable gear, plus costs to get it and personnel, which could vary a lot. Likely a level 5 favor or similar credit expenditure. The biggest weakness the tank has in combat is it's lack of long ranged and over the horizon weapons, combined with no active countermeasures for seekers.

All this talk of "over horizon fire" got me thinking about seeing the ISS after the Sun is below the horizon, but it is not. Assuming a few clicks in one direction of the tankicoma (Tom) are not inhabited or structurally important (if it's not, try to lure it out?) two unit team, 60 km of a material that has high tensile strength, is electrically conductive, and can survive heat generated in Mars atmosphere when moving around 10 kps and has some give to it (I'm imagining transhuman bungee cords made of carbon fiber or whatever is hip in 10 AF), nanites that activate and eat on solid pressure (but can distinguish the difference between a rock and air at 10 kps), a space craft (cargo hauler would be best), a winch, and some prep: Prep is to make a net on the end of 50 km of line and come up with some way to steer it (net is 100 m wide and made of the remaining 10 km of line, treated with the aforementioned nanites) Spotters job is to get eyes on Tom and keep him painted when the time is right. And not get taken offline. Depending on what Tom's up to, this may be difficult. Pilots job is to keep a craft in orbit when it rapidly comes under load. Ideally, the net stays a few meters from the ground, but really only needs to be at that level in the last few clicks to Tom. The nanites job is to keep it from getting snagged, cutting any links that may be dragging or wrapped around a rock before it impacts the overall trajectory of the net. Spotter is painting the target, and this information is used by mechanisms attached to the rope to allow it to contract or force sections of the rope to deploy foils to force them down or to the side. Assuming Tom's got eyes at 10 m, the horizon is 18 km away, so if he's looking really close in the right direction, he may see it coming, but it can move too, and his only hope would be to get under it (so picking terrain is important). On contact, Toms bug zapper kills the local nanites that would have worked to free him, his eelware is not effective against a conductive target, and he is rapidly dragged to orbital velocity as the winch engages. If there was no give to the rope, it would just snap or wreck the ship. If Tom can make orbit, more power to him, maybe it's time to talk. If Tom gets free after a few seconds of acceleration, he'll be wreckage in a line across Mars. If the net misses, reel it up, try again on the next pass.

Justin In Oz wrote:

They had the qubit communicator from the baddie. They took advantage of the real-world naiveté of the infomorph operators. They impersonated their leader and got them to accept a virus. They then hacked the tank and captured it. They then sold the tank to rebels in the Southern Highlands of Mars. Not a shot was fired.

Boring, but extremely practical.

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:

Justin In Oz wrote:

Not a shot was fired.

Boring, but extremely practical.

How the majority of the PCs prefer to live.

MrWigggles wrote:

Thats not how that works. A QE Device, is two communication devices, and just two. Its not a radio. You cant dial into nother one. So you would need to steal that tanks QEcomm.

Sheesh... re-read the post. We had captured one of the two Q-Bit Comm's matching the two Comm's on the Tank. A Team of Psych's and Memeticians and Hackers to work through to get to our AI targets. It was a sinch really. Much more fun to think out of the box at all times as players. Also, we had mostly learned our lesson about extended firefights in populated areas of Mars... which we promptly forgot a couple sessions later. Spending some time off planet to let things cool off while we get new ID's set up. We circumvented chunks of the written adventure, explored different avenues, an always looked for alternatives to direct confrontation, though generally packing enough heat to destroy all foes. So far we've twice we've been outgunned and twice made it out with alternative solutions. Next time I'm not so sure, but that is what BUInsurance is for. Note we also sold the Tank. Part of our scheme was to capture it and its various contents, (Ego's, and Lab) undamaged and salable to our Barsoomian Separatist Friends or keeping for ourselves, earning credits and rep in the deal. We are always looking for those angles. Why kill a morph if you can knock them out, extract the ego and sell the body? Everything is resources for us. The Combat Wombat character asked today why my PC helped some of our former opponents find new ID's and sleeves. My reply was they were weapons we could use. Making friends of enemies, and enemy weapons and tools into player resources and so on is key to the entrepreneurial approach we try to take to our EP game. We have sold quite a few weapons off to our contacts... now including a nuke, and possibly in a session or two an anti-matter bomb. Likely it's all going to end horribly. I just know it.

Kojak wrote:

Well, the players finally faced off against the tank tonight, and thanks to a well-planned and well-executed ambush on their part, they more or less handed it its ass. I'll get into more detail tomorrow, when I wake up.

I look forward to hearing their solution.

Did the tank just fail to spot them with the quantum radar? That'd be my worry when trying to set up an ambush. Also, the paint rounds probably shouldn't have worked, as the Lotus Coating should deal with them, but maybe the Fray+30 checks got failed? Otherwise that sounds super cool.

Cool, that was a big stumbling point I saw for paint rounds, which is why my original plan opted for burning off the outer layers because the armor wasn't Fireproofed. I'm glad that worked out.

There's no written rules interaction, but of equipment which already exists, a dazzler should blind guided seekers within 200 meters, or whatever the range of the dazzler is.

To say nothing of the fact that you still have a very fast projectile moving toward you. It could even store last-known locations and even though it would be incapable of updating sensors it'd still likely impact with all but the most erratically moving targets. Worse, airburst capable seekers could still detonate, at least splashing the character with some hot plasma/blowing them up.

Kojak wrote:

how would you recommend defeating this thing?

A couple more options: 1. Spot the tank, collect evidence and then call the authorities. Likely they won't be able to turn a bling eye to a fucking rogue tank jaywalking near Olympus. Especially since Das Frettchen, a Firewall router on Mars is both extremely well-connected and has "exterminate it with extreme prejudice" mindset towards X-risks. And a tank-based lab producing exsurgent-contaminated drugs certainly does qualify for that. 2. Firewall is perceived as a terrorist organisation by the PC. So act like one. Steal (or rent if your fake IDs are good enough for that and disposable) a flying car (or as many as you can jam or pilot in any way), maybe even load it with improvised armor or explosives. Scout the route. Place an IED. Set up your ambush. Execute.

Taking flight near Olympus is an almost certain death sentance, but that's because of the OIA no-fly zone they have around the space elevator. Even excluding that, if the police won't use quick-reaction flying cars it must be pretty hairy to fly around. IIRC the tank is not on a predictable route, or at least a complex enough one that it would take weeks of observations to figure it out. Placing a trap in its path could be doable, but getting observation of it and in front of it without flying sounds like a hard problem to solve. If you can, engineer microswarms should be able to bury any explosives in a matter of moments.

Not 100% true, there are also area-sterilizing bug zappers, but they're for rooms and antechambers, and might not apply to a unmanned tank. For a crewed tank they sound really nice to have though, being eaten alive by smart acid sounds like a bad way for a crewman to go.

Thanks mate.

Those links are clearly from the Tanks hackers, and an attempt to subvert your assault from within.

The group I GMed it for dealt with it (with tears and blood but they did it nonetheless). They used acid but not watered acid, more like foam or gel acid to burn through the first layer of defense (invisible coating, bug zapper, lotus coating. During the same time a sniper tried to take out sensors (optic mainly, Lidar and T-ray emitter). Once done 2 went out with machine guns and anti armor ammo to distract the tank while the strong guy (with a heavily modifed Flex bot) played all out Ghost in the Shell and climbed on it's back, try and tear a hole in the hull with Disassembly tools (laser cutter) and then he hid underneath the tank for the coup-de-grace. Which came from a missile launcher on the top of a building and a couple direct hits. The strong guy underneath nearly died by the explosions, the two decoys with machine guns were heavily injured too, only the sniper/missile guy was fine at the end of the fight. The only effort i made during the fight to accept the foam like acid to take out the bug zapper and eelware of the tank so that one can climb on it wthout instantly dying. It was a realy good scene to play.