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Questions about Meathab

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uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
Questions about Meathab
I know a few threads have been written about this strange place-sapient (genius loci?), but I wanted to toss out a few more questions to help flesh out my nascent scenario that I am brainstorming. I expect I will keep returning to add questions to this thread, my apologies for the rambling, figured it would work best to limit them to one thread. The maintenance lizards that maintain the habitat, what wavelength would they best communicate or coördinate with? Ultraviolet? Thermal? What is the ideal, non-telepathic method of communication for a bioengineered maintenance lizard? Pheromones and scent?
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
How do you make Nanovirii?
How do you make Nanovirii? Like how are they cultured or produced, when not created by a high end specialized nanofabricator?
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
Due to Meathabs dislike of
Due to Meathabs dislike of inorganic parts, would the habitat include a significantly less amount of panopticon/sousveillance? Would nanofabrication be replaced for genehacked and biosculpted items made in flesh-farms that wouldn't irritating the living meatspace?
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
Probably the easiest way to
Probably the easiest way to make those lizards communicate would be implanted radios, but that's probably cheating. My guess would be audio cues (they can talk!?). I imagine meathab would be too much of a maze with too much air movement for visual or smell based communication to be optimal. Nanovirii seem to come in two types. There's the biological nanovirus' that some Exsurgent strains have, which can be cultivated and grown, but it's not clear that something like this technology can be replicated by transhumans. Otherwise they're procured the same way other nanoswarms are. I'm skeptical that Meathab entirely eschews the use of nonbiological technology, so nanofabs and spimes likely still exist. Meathab is aware enough to open doors for people, so there's likely a ton of sensors around. There is probably a lot less access to those spimes though.
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
Going to the bathroom is a new type of horror...
uwtartarus wrote:
What is the ideal, non-telepathic method of communication for a bioengineered maintenance lizard? Pheromones and scent?
I think you wouldn't use just one method, because which method is optimal is dependant on given circumstances and the required task. Scent queues and pheromones are best for passive elements, where the appropriate signal is produced as a byproduct of the appropriate stimulus. For more direct control, I'd say the ideal is magnetoperception... but that's not allowed using pure RAW bioware (which really annoys me, because magnetically active cells are a real thing). Therefore, I suggest visual communication a'la octomorph colour language, but linked to a higher visual processing rate for bandwidth. Imo, hearing is too circumstance-specific for communication, but useful for situational awareness.
uwtartarus wrote:
How do you make Nanovirii? Like how are they cultured or produced, when not created by a high end specialized nanofabricator?
For Nanoviruses... well, they're [i]viruses[/i]. Biological production is probably the default anyway. This is actually something that nags at me – there's a lot of (potential) crossover between biotech and nanotech, because most viruses and proteins are essentially nanomachines by another name. If you can solve Protein Folding (Which in EP they have) then using biological processes becomes the number one method of producing nanotech. Even if this isn't the case, I still feel that Biotech systems are more likely to use nanoware than cyberware for additional functions to simplify integration.
uwtartarus wrote:
Due to Meathabs dislike of inorganic parts, would the habitat include a significantly less amount of panopticon/sousveillance?
Biological spimes absolutely exist. I have two in my head right now :) Accessing the data is a question of Meathabs' system architecture, but I'd assume it's roughly equivalent to the default. Whether the system grants you access... that's a different story :P Inorganic manufacture probably uses standard systems (iirc Meathab is 10% inorganic), but see my previous comment on nanoware :P
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
My goal is to prepare a
My goal is to prepare a scenario to introduce to people, a one shot for a local convention and my own disparate queue of players, so the weirdness of a meat space station filled drug users, cultists, drug-pharmers, and biosculptors plus the less sousveillance issue makes it slightly easier to run. Trying to keep it weird and transhuman-ish while not overwhelming. Michael Criton's Prey had nanotech that uses e.coli as a baseline so I am right on board with your concerns with biotech/nanotech crossovers.
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
No Sir, I am a meat popsicle.
In the off chance you're not done with the concept, how central are you hoping to make 'MeatHab: The Character' to the plot? Are they going to be the focus of the story, or will they be a side-character, with the biotech nature of the Hab providing atmosphere? If you're looking for more thoughts on Biotech, then I'd say the next question is how... 'meaty'... you want Meathab to be, as opposed to other biotech elements. Meathab is made of Bacon, but are the integral systems a separate network woven through the savory substrate, or are they infused into the Bacon's genetics. Try looking at weird/unusual real-world organisms including bacteria and viruses for interesting elements that a designer could incorporate, and don't fall into the trap of using monochrome muscle sheets for architecture. Bioluminescent lighting designs are often drawn from simple bugs, but you just as well have sheets of multicolored glory rippling down the walls. Solid structures can be bone, but you can also incorporate nacre (Mother of Pearl) or woody structures.
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
I do need to really mix it up
I do need to really mix it up with the bacon-space-station bits. The scenario is, simplified, Firewall sends a sentinel team to stop a genehacker (at the behest of a radical biochauvinist cult) from subverting/infecting Meathab. So Meathab as a character will be more than the generic: the setting is a character too, places have personality; because Meathab literally has an ego/mind, but the weird and so of occluded or strange way that Meathab interacts with others means it is less than "oh hey guys, there is a villain up inside me and you should stop him" especially as I am trying to skip past that plot hole with nerve cluster ganglia nodes being held hostage by plasmaburst bombs or something. I have definitely got to avoid the far too simple "meat walls, meat floor, meat everything!" A homebrew thread on the forums described a pair of settlements (one being the home of the weird synthmorph sleeved cult that worships Meathab) and being spun for 50% Earth gravity, so chitinous walkways, and eyeball spimes are some things I want to include, as well as cilli-covered respiration fronds maintaining a transhuman atmosphere.
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
MeatHab 'is' an Art installation...
For aesthetics maybe think about how your sterotypical tree-shaping Elves would make space-station, and then replace the foliage with jerky. If you're willing to steal from Peter Hamilton's 'Night's Dawn' trilogy, you can have your antagonist infect meathab with a nanovirus (The faithful rub lotions into the walls...) which co-opts the neural substrate, forcing it to run the antagonist's (or an AI's) neural patterns. Functionally, you can run this as MeatHab developing Multiple Personality Disorder and Schizophrenia or being locked in a fevered delirium. MeatHab doesn't say something's wrong because it's lost the capability, and no-one else can tell because of how it 'usually' communicates. You can use this to contrast the sometimes hard to grasp tech of EP with the very human and mundane experiences/fears of being sick or going insane with a nice range of 'symptoms' and intensity to create the atmosphere you want, from more psychological elements like the Lizards acting weirdly or unnerving effects in the structure, to more BodyHorror things like excessive mucous or bleeding walls. ... Seriously, the last time I was really sick I developed a intense need to explain how the main difference between Humans and [i]Fairies[/i] was how hydrogen was metabolized, and became afraid to sleep because my dreams were [i]broken[/i].
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
Nanovirii was definitely the
Nanovirii was definitely the plan, but having the Meathab already be affected is even better than my prior plans. Delirium is a pretty strange experience certainly.
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
How would Argonauts or other
How would Argonauts or other locals describe addresses or locations within Meathab? By segments?
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
Without knowing the shape of
Without knowing the shape of meathab it's pretty hard to say I think.
MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture
I always imagine it like a
I always imagine it like a like cylinder. Like a meaty o neil cylinder but not as hollow. Its packed with... meat. Also, I dont get why spimes in Meathab would have to be cybernetic. You can have eyes made out of meat, and tiny eyes made out of meat.
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
I am certain that meathab
I am certain that meathab knows what goes on in meathab, but that his neural architecture wouldn't run the same sort of OS that transhumans use. So everyone would be piggy-backing on each other's sensory info. The scum who maintain the social norms probably encourage as much sousveillance as possible, and the creepy pilgrima and mystics take advantage of the opportunities for privacy to skulk about. Meathab is neighbors with the rings of Saturn right? And Ringers are (weirdly) private for outer system types.
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture
Something that Meathab also
Something that Meathab also tells us, is there there can be a plethora of other... unique strange habs in Sol and just arent known. Meathab didnt announce itself. It was discovered. There could lots of weird things, that are even out of the plane of the solar system.
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
Ooo! Good point. I may have
Ooo! Good point. I may have Argonaut scientists studying meatbabs neural network in order to replicate it on more conventional inorganic habitats. Then you'd have habitats that appear normal but if you open up the fiberoptic conduits you find nodules of synaptic materials.
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture
There a plot hook!
There a plot hook!