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What defines a Hyper-Corporation?

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FNR FNR's picture
What defines a Hyper-Corporation?
Hey everyone I'm coming back to Eclipse Phase after a little break and will be the GM for our group. Reading through the books again I realised that I don't fully get the concept of the hypercorporation. My players only know Shadowrun so far and I can see them rolling their eyes saying "Oh so it is Atztech IN SPACE!" From what I understand hypercorps are far more specialised than the Shadowrun megacorps. But I don't see the difference to say Airbus or Boeing today, who together have almost 90% of the market share when it comes to commercial planes. So what exactly is the difference between a hypercorporation and todays corporations?
MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture
Their basically Shadowrun
Their basically Shadowrun Megacorps. With a different name. Though unlike Shadwrun, they lack the personality that Shadowrun has. Come to think of, I dont think there a good list of the actual Hyper Corps that make up the PC. I think the only one really is CogNite. We have Direct Action, which is used as the merc and militarty (kinda) of the PC. Not sure if their HyperCorp level. Anyway. Their basically megacorps from Shadowrun.
DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
Well, from what I recall,
Well, from what I recall, they're what happens to megacorps when advanced technology allows a few dozen people to do the work of thousands. They're small and focused. Computer technology and nanofabrication removes the need for many workers. Very few hypercorps are close to big enough to be a megacorp. Actually, there is perfectly good write up of what hypercorps are supposed to be. See p. 70 in the core rulebook. Edit: There is also forking, limited AIs, a diversity of blueprints, nanofabs making more nanofabs, and so much more. Any hypercorp can become an industrial power house and appear with explosive force. A lone person could conceivably carry all the blueprint they need to build a civilization. That is the kind of resources that hypercorps might have at their disposal.
UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
Quote:I don't think there a
Quote:
I don't think there a good list of the actual Hyper Corps that make up the PC.
Sunward details the PC a little more, and has a list of major percentage holders in the Hypercorp Council. Anyway, DW hit it pretty firmly. Take a giant cyberpunk megacorp and give it another 50-100 years of sophistication and technological advancement. You don't need giant 100 story skyscrapers filled with cube-farms and knowledge workers. You need a couple floors in an office park racked with servers so your indentured infugees can do all the work. You don't need a corporate compound the size of a small country anymore: your executives can live in mansions on Progress, your Black Lab can be buried in Mercury, while primary production is in a small nanofab plant on Mars and all your assets are on secure servers contained in a Lunar bank. It's all about efficiency. Employees are all contractors or management. The huge hypercorps, guys holding multiple percent in the Hypercorp Council are usually big enough to require building entire hab stations to act as a central focus for their industry, but that's a scale thing. Direct Action sends mercs and materiel all around the solar system, so it's only natural they have a central location where they can collect all the data, resources, etc. Meanwhile, Solaris banking is pretty important but they are nothing BUT e-commerce, so they basically don't exist outside of secure servers and simulspace offices.
H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
The problem with Megacorps is they're unrealistic these days.
As I understand it, Hypercorps are all about subcontracting, with big ones acting as much as service providers as anything else - think Valve with the Steam system, Kickstarter, Über and AirBnB, and Franchise systems in general. Cognite may do research and development, but they also act as a publisher/distributor for smaller hypercorps doing Mindware or provide access to facilities/software. Their own products are created by farming out work to smaller Corps, and will likely center around base-level development tools, System software and Interface hardware. Likewise, Direct Action have their own facilities and elite troops, but most of the time they farm out the jobs to Groups with the appropriate skillset, taking a percentage of the fee for acting as a middleman.
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
FNR FNR's picture
First sorry for the long
First sorry for the long silence, work was a bit hellish and I didn't find the time to reply. Thanks everyone for the input. I think I now have a better idea of how to portray Hypercorps. I especially like the franchise idea. But I have come up with an other question. We will be playing on Mars mostly, so right in the heart of the PC. As I get it, from the posts above, Hypercorps aren't that big manpower wise. Part of the power of Megacorps in Shadowrun derived from the fact, that they also were the main employers. Everyone and their pet worked for them. Each single person was just a replaceable cog in the wheel but there were millions of them and they were needed. With so much work being done better by specialised AIs and drones that mostly leaves high level creative jobs or jobs in the service sector (which probably can also be done by AIs). I can see how the 'anarchist' economies work under that assumption. But I don't see how an extremely capitalist system like the PC would work as most people would be unemployed. So what do people do for a living when most work can be done better and cheaper by machines?
UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
Well, not all work can be
Well, not all work can be done better and cheaper by machines. A Limited AI cannot necessarily do better than a human can (just they tend to come "out of the box" with as good as they get), nor do they necessarily come cheaper. Just pulling an Ego out of storage for an indenture contract is much cheaper than the costs the game associates with even simple AIs and in the PC IP laws are still a thing, so unless you make AIs, you probably need to pay for every copy of an AI you use. So there's an overlap of low skill, high pop jobs where running off a bunch of humans in cheap pods or synths is better for your bottom line. AIs also don't do improv, so they need planners, coordinators and supervisors. And of course, if you have certain kinds of technical skills, you can join the waves of temp middle-class white collar guys who get hired as needed on certain projects. Doing something with pharma? Hire a bunch of lab techs, chemical engineers and programmers to whip up some simulations, run some tests and do the leg work you need, then when it's done they either hop off to another corp project, or get contracted to do another job. Remember, almost any work you want done is done by a temp contract. Mars also has an advantage that outside of Progress, Mars isn't technically just the PC. Tharsis League cities and towns exist, and have conventional functions of municipal governments, which means people get to work in all kinds of municipal services - government jobs. In the cities, there's plenty of opportunities for small businesses which sell, fix or mod Hypercorp products, or do their own thing, and who could be looking for people to do small work which they can't (or can't afford to) leave to AIs. You might not make a lot stocking the backroom of the chinese restaurant, but it's a paycheck.
H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/
DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
FNR wrote:First sorry for the
FNR wrote:
First sorry for the long silence, work was a bit hellish and I didn't find the time to reply.
Don't worry about it. Real life gets in the way of my fun too. Anyways, time to answer your questions. Limited AIs are things that can do work, but they are things that can't render a human obsolete. They can't improve skills, there is limit to how skilled they can be, and they are unable to act well outside their programing. An AI designed for mining isn't going to be able to design blueprints for a war machine, nor can it hack someone's bank account and drain their savings. They also can't do things the require creativity. Furthermore, they are often too much a like. If you figure out how to fool one, you can probably fool the of its siblings (forks and copies). Another part of the equation is that the majority of people don't trust AIs. During the fall, they were the enemy or something that could be hacked. Even humans sleeved in synthmorphs are looked at with suspicion because they can be hacked. There is work that is only entrusted to humans because they are not AIs. Thirdly, AIs are not the best customers. There is some incentive to not render people obsolete so they can continue to be customers. There is effort in meme warfare to convince people that they have certain wants and needs, or control their thinking. Fourth, not everyone is employed. At least not in legal professions. There are plenty of criminals. Some of whom are criminals because they need to be criminals to survive, some are criminals because the law works against their freedoms (these are often AGIs and Uplifts), and some are criminals because its their nature. *shrugs* This isn't my best topic. I hope that I at least gave you some ideas of how the economy could work. I'll try to do some more research on it later.
DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
I did some more reading.
I did some more reading. Transhuman, p 161 has a section on Indentures and Infugees. It seems to be informative on the conditions and work that indentured workers live and do. Also how they manage to exist as a labor force despite the existence of AIs. To give a quick summary, there is a great demand for construction work (for new habs) and data analysis. From there, industries exist to support such industries, such as entertainment and stuff. Using their legal expertise, hypercorps are able to get away with paying their indentured workers very little and add on fees that effectively allows them to keep them indefinitely. Their work also offers little opportunity to develop new skills, social connections, money, and other forms of support needed to allow them to take care of themselves. Getting indetured a second or third time isn't unusual. There is also places that restrict or out right ban AIs. In such places, cheap labor (or indentured slave labor) is the next best thing.
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
The first taste is always free...
FNR wrote:
Each single person was just a replaceable cog in the wheel but there were millions of them and they were needed. With so much work being done better by specialized AIs and drones that mostly leaves high level creative jobs or jobs in the service sector (which probably can also be done by AIs). I can see how the 'anarchist' economies work under that assumption. But I don't see how an extremely capitalist system like the PC would work as most people would be unemployed. So what do people do for a living when most work can be done better and cheaper by machines?
Simply put, for a given resource input R there is an amount of the population that can be supported, with X% of that population devoted to producing those resources, Y% into increasing the ability to harvest/use resources, and the rest producing information in the form of Knowledge or Culture. What machines and AI do is inhabit the first and (partially) the second of those sections, but leave the third untouched - but the proportions remain the same, so that the economy is the equivalent of one with a vastly greater population. Even better, it's the last one that produces the things that define our quality of life, and there isn't a 'cap' on how many jobs there are when it comes to producing information, and a very loose one when it comes to services - Steam doesn't have a limit on how many games it can publish or how many developers it can support. In practice, this promotes freelancing or subscription based employment systems, which keys into the hypercorps as service providers concept - an artist may produce a hundred pieces a month but only sell one, but single sale provides enough for a two months at a comfortable lifestyle. Again, look at Patreon. The technical side of things can work similarly - a company can give a single creative task to a hundred freelancers and pay them each enough to live by whilst the 'best' result gets a bonus. The extra cost is minimal compared to their profit margin but provides access to a ridiculous level of talent and potential. Sound familiar? It should - it's how gambling addictions work. Human beings are fine at avoiding the Stick, but we're psychologically and physiologically unprepared to avoid the Carrot; doing good things for bad reasons is hard to fathom or condemn, and the concept of the Hero who damns themselves for the greater good is a Cultural Idol. (Also pertinent - this is also similar to how artificial super-intelligences work, as the population acts as a Massively Parallel processor array. Hey, isn't the Exsurgent Virus specifically designed to infect ASIs?) So how can there be unemployment? Easy Answer - there shouldn't be. It's artificial. Did you know that “the forbidden fruit tastes the sweetest” - when you deprive someone of something, they become hyperaware of that thing and develop an intense craving for it? The Indenture system deprives the subjects from entertainment, mental stimulation and novelty, and when they come out they're not only given the chance to binge on those things but actively encouraged to do so: Indentureship makes you crave stimulation, and the economic system uses that to get you hooked on 'being productive'. PC Citizens aren't Wage Slaves – they're Wage Junkies.
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
FNR FNR's picture
Ok, I think I get it.
Ok, I think I get it. So for example, there wouldn't be many people doing actual construction work, but some would supervise the construction drones. And some to design new ones. Then there are the marketing guys working on selling the new drones, the architect who desinged the building and so on. People wouldn't pay someone to mow the lawn but they would hire someone to desingn their garden. Not many people would work at McDonalds and make burgers (that is done by an automated food dispenser) but there are still chefs because once in a while people like to go to a restaurant and eat 'real' food. So basically there is a lot less menial work and most people worke in creative jobs. And Indentures also mostly work these jobs but with contracts that make them extremely dependent on their sponsor
MAD Crab MAD Crab's picture
Not quite accurate. There are
Not quite accurate. There are some Hypercorps that DO have massive worker populations. Starware has tens of thousands of actual, genuine transhuman construction workers for the Korolev shipyards, for example. They have at least as many (more, I think) AI drones, and are growing that number all the time, but they are one of the major employers in Lunar orbit. Now, Luna is one of those places that doesn't like AIs or AGIs much, but it's still notable. Some jobs just need tonnes of workers, and it's convenient to have the self-training self-improving transhuman ego doing the work. I think that some of the notable 'hyper' parts of these corps would be a fairly shallow management structure and heavy use of contracted management positions. The workers might not be going anywhere, but it's easy to hire a proven manager from across the system and bring him in for a short term contract.
DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
How about an example of how
How about an example of how employment works from one of the books. The Korolev Shipyards (around Luna) currently employs about 25000 worker, 15000 are synthmorphs, and 7000 are in vacuum tolerant morphs. They also employ 3 times that in robots making it one of the places where the largest proportion of the work force is robotic manufacturing. There have been some protests over the fact they are shifting to even more robots, and the unions are threatening to strike.
UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
I think it's important to
I think it's important to note the industries involved here too. Ship construction involves a really huge scale, something requiring dedicated facilities which probably go outside the scale of a lot of nanotech construction, and the really big ships, Bulk Carriers, Transports, even the old barge-types have a lot of complex parts and subsystems. Robotic assembly lines probably cut that efficiency as much as possible, but ultimately you've got a lot of square footage in a ship that needs human oversight and probably makes sense to have them doing certain detail oriented work or flexible work your AIs won't be good at. On the other hand, The Prosperity Group's R&D and production facility in Mars orbit (noted as being a place where they test and grow space meat) has a much smaller worker population, only 500 dedicated vacuum workers in synths and 5,000 total staff. Because really, once you start vat growing strains of meat, there's not a lot of legwork to be done. The original idea with construction is pretty sound - for purposes of say a "Construction Hypercorp". There are bots dedicated to construction and AIs noted with technical skills. So if you run a corporate outfit on construction, you probably have small fleets of constructor drones being shepherded by a few infomorphs (Dedicated AGI if you have the bunce and nobody stops you, but more efficient to hire some indentures). You contract architects to design the building. You still probably contract dedicated electricians and plumbers to oversee and plan those subsystems, but a lot of their non-technical grunt work is done by drones and AI - possibly their own. You contract interior decorators and consultants to design the interiors and play with the layout - who probably subcontract specialists to pick things like flooring, furniture styles, etc. Which are assembled by nanofab (unless you're really expensive and using some analog throwbacks) and probably placed by bots - though it might be cheaper to just round up a few dozen temps from the local neighborhood to move sofas. When you're done, you call up a real estate entity who acts as the middleman to buy/sell/rent whatever building you've finished. The corp itself only needs a handful of direct "employees" various managers and associates who head up projects and coordinate between the subcontractors - but if they're good they can amass the lion's share of the profits between multiple projects.
H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/