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Combat Paralysis - Each round or only once?

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Sun, 2016-10-09 07:11
#1
Luckmann Luckmann's picture
Combat Paralysis - Each round or only once?
Alright, so, sorry for the rules questions, and there'll probably be more as we start playing, but I have a question specifically regarding Combat Paralysis, because the wording is ambiguous. The Trait says: [b][i]The character has an unfortunate habit of freezing in combat or stressful situations, like a deer caught in headlights. Anytime violence breaks out around the character, or they are surprised, the character must make a Willpower Test in order to act or respond in any way. If they fail the test, they lose their action and simply stand there, remaining incapable of reacting to the situation.[/b][/i] The wording [i]"anytime violence breaks out [...] or they are surprised"[/i] suggests to me that the test is only once, when the violence breaks out. But the wording "they lose their action" suggests that they'd lose that action, and then next round they can try again. It could also be interpreted as only being a single test, after which you either succeed, or you are paralyzed until the next time violence breaks our or that you're surprised - but we deemed that unreasonable, since you'd only get one chance to participate in an entire encounter. My personal interpretation is that this forces a test once violence breaks out, and if you fail, you lose all actions for your current turn. Next turn, you can try again. Keep failing, and you keep losing turns. Once you've succeeded on the test, you are "normal" for the remainder of that encounter, unless there's a radical shift that surprises you. Another player is convinced that the player with Combat Paralysis has to test each round to see if he can act.
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Sun, 2016-10-09 10:34
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
The way that this works in
The way that this works in most other games, including the games that Eclipse Phase shares DNA with, has always been that it's a first-round/significant change situation that triggers it, and the test is made on a per-turn basis until the character succeeds (or, even more generously, the character always acts on the second round, even if they fail the first test). Combat is too brutal to stand out in the open for more than a few seconds without expecting some seriously nasty stuff, and Eclipse Phase presents plenty of opportunities for this paralysis. It's not like it's going to be "too powerful" relative to its point value.
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Sun, 2016-10-09 13:42
Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
My read would be that when a
My read would be that when a fight starts (surprise or overt) you make a save vs losing your first complex action, but after that brief moment you can act normally. I'm largely basing this off of the wording about losing actions rather than turns or phases, basically they give up small surprise rounds a lot. So if you're a 12 complex action speed monster, you save for the first but still get the next 11 normally. This may not be what the trait was intended to do though.
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Mon, 2016-10-10 02:15
DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
My philosophy is that more
My philosophy is that more dice rolls *does not* equal more fun. Making a dice roll every action phase, or even action turn, just to get the option of acting can be a frustrating experience for the player. Better if the player can automatically act after a certain point, like after 1 action turn. Or action phase if you prefer. You can lose a lot by losing 1 turn or even action phase of combat. A few wounds from combat will add penalties to all actions. Losing your first action(s) during combat will deprive you the chance to inflict those penalties early, and give the enemy time to inflict those penalties on you. You might lose before you get the chance to act.
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Mon, 2016-10-10 07:51
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
More powerful sometimes means less effective.
DivineWrath wrote:
My philosophy is that more dice rolls *does not* equal more fun. ... You can lose a lot by losing 1 turn or even action phase of combat. A few wounds from combat will add penalties to all actions. Losing your first action(s) during combat will deprive you the chance to inflict those penalties early, and give the enemy time to inflict those penalties on you. You might lose before you get the chance to act.
This. Combat in EP is brutal, and not being able to act for even one turn can be lethal. If it applied over several turns, then the only characters who have a real chance to survive combat are those who's will is so high they'll usually pass on the first turn anyway, in which case the Trait is little more than free CP.
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In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
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Thu, 2016-10-13 10:43
Luckmann Luckmann's picture
Consensus
So is there a consensus? I was pretty convinced that it wasn't each round, whether you save or not, but the idea that it would only be the first round no matter what never occurred to me. What's your reading of it?
  • Test each turn until you succed, act normally afterwards for the duration of the event.
or
  • Test first turn. Fail, lose that turn, but act normally for the rest of combat. Succeed, you don't lose the turn, and act normally for the rest of combat.
My personal assumption always was the former, but with a second reading, I realize it could be the latter. Obviously, the latter would benefit me more, so I'm partial, but I honestly just want to settle on something that I can present to the GM so we know what's going to happen. :P
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Sun, 2016-10-23 09:37
BalazarLightson BalazarLightson's picture
Personal Experience
I'm a fairly nonviolent guy, even as a kids after doing martial arts training, my response to violence when it happens it to gawk and think "WTF". I guess I don't understand that impulse very well. However I usually dodge any punch coming my way. One fight had an exception, the guy got six punches in before I shoved him to the ground and told him not to be stupid. Still, at the height of my training period someone threw a joke gut punch at me walking past and I accidentally threw them across the room. It was automatic and done without thought. A maneuver completely unlike anything I'd trained for. It was an excellent throw. That's kinda the purpose of the training, switches you to automatic. My manager boxes, she's very good. Her combo training has accelerated her abilities a lot, she can fight on auto so well. This auto-reaction makes me feel that it would be a SOM, INT or REF roll rather than a WIL roll. It's not your WIL being tested, but your reactions to the situation.
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Sun, 2016-10-23 15:31
Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
You could always make it SOM
You could always make it SOM+REF+WIL rather than multiplying for something like that.
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Wed, 2016-10-26 06:20
Luckmann Luckmann's picture
BalazarLightson wrote:I'm a
BalazarLightson wrote:
I'm a fairly nonviolent guy, even as a kids after doing martial arts training, my response to violence when it happens it to gawk and think "WTF". I guess I don't understand that impulse very well. However I usually dodge any punch coming my way. One fight had an exception, the guy got six punches in before I shoved him to the ground and told him not to be stupid. Still, at the height of my training period someone threw a joke gut punch at me walking past and I accidentally threw them across the room. It was automatic and done without thought. A maneuver completely unlike anything I'd trained for. It was an excellent throw. That's kinda the purpose of the training, switches you to automatic. My manager boxes, she's very good. Her combo training has accelerated her abilities a lot, she can fight on auto so well. This auto-reaction makes me feel that it would be a SOM, INT or REF roll rather than a WIL roll. It's not your WIL being tested, but your reactions to the situation.
In the case of Combat Paralysis, I never interpreted it as a matter of reaction time or training (or a lack thereof) but rather as a psychological condition, such as caused by PTSD, and a perceived inability to act due to panic or complex indecisiveness. It could also be a matter of you being distracted (or distracting yourself) as a form of psychological escapism ("this isn't happening"), experiencing a disconnect from reality. The WIL test, thus, is about you overcoming this in time to still act, to snap out of it and choose a course of action, and act upon it. Much like someone suffering a panic or anxiety attack, you are fighting your own mind and whatever trauma it believes itself to be experiencing at the moment, and you must force yourself to snap out of it. Someone capable of acting automatically and without thought the instant something starts would not (or should not) have the Combat Paralysis trait. What you describe sound to me like a standard Initiative test, to act quickly upon your training or gut feelings, reflexively.
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[img]https://i.imgur.com/ijajKr2.gif[/img] [img]https://i.imgur.com/aRCXG97.png[/img] [img]https://i.imgur.com/9TuXncp.png[/img]
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