I was trying to design some pod morphs the other day and I was trying to make drug glands a feature of these morphs. However, as I was going through the list, I found that Nacroalgorithms can duplicate the effects of most drugs and that pod morphs can use them.
Drug Glands are price category + 1 augments. Does this mean that its cheaper to use Nacroalgorithms (there is no mention of raising the price for them)?
Also, am I correct to assume that Nacroalgorithms can be reused? Their durations can be made to be anything (not just the 3 hours listed as the default)? What about activation time? There is no mention of that either, so can I assume its instantaneous?
Actually, there is no mention of what the onset time is or how it works. Can I assume it is the time it takes before it takes effect? I really prefer that RPG books explain even these small details.
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Pod morphs: Drug Glands or Narcoalgorithms?
Tue, 2016-09-27 19:06
#1
DivineWrath
Pod morphs: Drug Glands or Narcoalgorithms?
Tue, 2016-09-27 19:50
#2
MrWigggles
Well, nacro algo, probably
Well, nacro algo, probably have various DRM to them. So some of them are limited time use before you have to buy more. Some of them can be trigger for as long as possible. Though its doing something very similar to imbibing drugs with a bio brain, which means the highs and lows will eventually peter out, if you continue to use the same nacro algo long enough.
I'm not sure if you can have a nacro algo that changes itself, to keep its potency. I mean, I bet you could, but some of those new combinations must be neutral and handful must be bad, and few are good.
Tue, 2016-09-27 20:50
#3
DivineWrath
Some context. I'm not really
Some context. I'm not really concerned about the long term survival of these morphs. They're supposed to be kinda disposable. They are supposed to burn intensely when there is a need for it. If there is something left afterwards that can be thrown in a healing vat, then great.
Just thinking about the prices for instance, a dose of Drive gives a +5 to COG. Using that drug is by far cheaper than designing a morph with +5 more points in COG (250 cr verses 7500 to 10625 cr). Even the drug gland version is still cheaper.
Some combat drugs give wicked bonuses for their price. Kick is 1000 cr and gives you +10 REF and +1 speed. MRDR is 250 cr and gives +10 SOM, +1 speed, and +10 DUR.
I wouldn't recommend these morphs for personal use. However, I would expect that some criminal organization or people with little concern for the well being of their employees might make use of these budget morphs. In fact the drawbacks of some of these drugs might be considered features. If you need to sent out some leg breakers, why not try those prone to lashing out because the drugs they frequently take.
Edit: I'm not trying to sound dismissive of feedback. I'm kinda pointing out that the people making these morphs are probably the same people who make digital drugs, so DRM can be adjusted (or even removed) to suit their needs.
Wed, 2016-09-28 19:39
#4
MAD Crab
Come to think of it
There's no particular reason a narcoalgorithm should be impossible to activate instantly and maintain indefinitely. Presumably it's mimicking the effects of a drug on whatever simulation of neurons the cyberbrain has going, but the cyberbrain doesn't really have the biological limitations the meat brain would. Then again, you could say that if a cyberbrain is trying to maintain normal brain functions, it must simulate neuron birth and death...
If I were going to rule it, I think I'd end up saying that if you try and maintain a narcoalgorithm beyond the default limits, you're going to start entering 'neurodiverse' territory and rolling stress tests. The Hebbian rule is, that which fires together, wires together. It's one thing to have your neurotransmitters dancing the funky chicken for an hour or two, long term god only knows how it's going to impact the wiring of your brain. And that's ego damage, not morph damage.
If you build a narcoalgorithm that doesn't do damage... congrats, you've invented a Savant cyberbrain plugin.
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Thu, 2016-09-29 17:25
#5
DivineWrath
Hmm... Yes, I suppose that
Hmm... Yes, I suppose that aptitude plugins are something to watch out for. Thanks for mentioning it. I'll go look to see if there are rules on over dosing on drugs in this game. Cause if there are no major side effects for long term use, then maybe this stuff should be worth more.
Sat, 2016-10-01 12:25
#6
DivineWrath
I found no rules on over
I found no rules on over dosing. Only addiction. No side effects unless the drug specifically mentions it.
Not only that, but some of the drugs that boost aptitudes, like Drive or Klar, can last for 8 hours a dose. And a really bad addiction might require a dose every 12 hours. So yes, these drugs could easily become aptitude plugins (in nacroalgorithm form). Cheaper than getting the aptitude through your morph. The only drawback is it is addicting.
It feels like I have made a mistake somewhere. If I'm wrong, could someone point it out please? Book and page number would really help.
Sat, 2016-10-01 12:59
#7
MAD Crab
I think this falls under GM
I think this falls under GM fiat.
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Sat, 2016-10-01 13:50
#8
DivineWrath
GM fiat is not always the
GM fiat is not always the best grounds for new fan made content. If I'm asking for this much nuance, then I should probably stick to drug glands. Pod or no pod. Otherwise, players and GMs would need to know my house rules to make sense of those morphs.
Wed, 2016-10-05 00:16
#9
DivineWrath
I decided to post what I
I decided to post what I created. If you feel that I did something wrong with applying drug glands, or if there is something I can do to improve it, please let me know.
Design Notes: I wasn't sure if I wanted the fact that it uses drugs to be public knowledge. Maybe its something that can't be kept secret. Either way, it caused me trouble when picking out a name. I wanted it to be a step before getting a Menton (possibly after the user was well addicted to drugs this morph used).
Also, its a morph that is less than half the price of a Menton. The Menton is 40 cp, this thing is 15 cp. A real cheap version of the Menton.
Design Notes: This one surprised me. And possibly scares me a little. The drugs this thing uses makes it a deadly combat morph. It has many bonus stats and improved ability to resist wounds. I ended up deciding to see how far I could take the morph.
Medichines allowed the morph to go into medical stasis. I figured there was a higher chance of it dying due to it being used for its intended purpose, and what drugs might do to it. It also allowed it to ignore another wound. It was already speed 3 with drugs, so Neurochem (level 1) pushed it to 4. Adrenal Glands gave REF boosts and ability to ignore another wound. Endocrine Control didn't seem to fit at first, but I was adding Adrenal Glands which is slightly improved by it, and the augment added the ability to ignore another wound. Hardened Skeleton and Respirocytes added more toughness (and some other perks). And at that point I was looking for some armor to make it harder to injure. I also added some aptitude bonuses to make it better match to what the Fury had after all drugs were in effect.
I compared this morph to the Fury and Reaper. I think this morph might outclass the Fury, even when you ignore the price difference. Since the Fury is not as expensive (credit wise) as its cp cost, I decided to reduce the market price a little. As for comparing it to the Reaper, its still clear that the Reaper is a war machine while the Drug Fiend is clearly an augmented soldier, or at least an augmented criminal.
I did the math, and stripping it of all the extra augments I added would reduce the price by 15 cp (to 35). Removing 10 DUR (dropping to 50 DUR) would have reduced the price by another 5 cp (to 30 cp). Aptitudes were another 15. Clearly, if I wanted a budget combat morph, I shouldn't have added those extras. What the drugs did was plenty. However, simply being a drug morph wasn't interesting enough. I wanted the designers to feel inspired to make a full fledged combat morph after the drugs gave them so much.
Thu, 2016-10-06 09:41
#10
ThatWhichNeverWas
Flintstones Chewable MRDR
Yeah, combat drugs can be real gamechangers, and they're great for NPCs (Muahaha ect.).
For dedicated morphs physical glands are definitely the way to go, because physical addiction spares the Ego ongoing problems, and you can pre-wire it in Severe addiction(s) and other negative traits to represent their slapshod nature keep the cost down.
Off the top of my head, Neurochemical Imbalance, Fast Metabolism, Implant Rejection and Weak Immune System would all be prime possibilities regardless of the morph's purpose.
For the morph's advantages, I'd really go for heavy specialization - only give them attribute bonuses which directly apply their purpose for example. I mean, does the Neophyte really 'need' a SOM cap higher than 5?
...
I also recommend having these types of morph be referred to as "Mules", as in "Drug-" and "Kicks-Like-A-".
—
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few.
But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
Fri, 2016-10-07 01:48
#11
DivineWrath
Thanks for the suggestions.
Thanks for the suggestions.
These morphs aren't slipshod, at least thats not how I think of them. Drugs allow them to be cheap yes, but not Case crappy cheap. In my experience, aptitude bonuses often make up a significant bulk of the expense of morphs. I see it as enough reduce aptitudes and replace them with drugs. The reduced expense is enough to be a selling point. The Neophyte is less than half the cost of a Menton, and half the price of an Exalt. The Drug Fiend is some type of drug frenzied super soldier, costs 2/3rds as much as a Fury, and half the price of a Reaper.
Neurochemical imbalance or pre-existing addiction might be appropriate for the Neophyte. However the morph creation rules only allow for 2 drawbacks, and one is already taken by Social Stigma (Pods). I take those rules as suggestions though, so I might put a 3rd drawback in if I feel it fits.
As for SOM, I can't say that a cap of 5 is a good one. I think it would take work to drop an aptitude that low. Most biomorphs have aptitude caps of 30, with splicers being the low bar of 25. Flats have aptitudes of 20, but they have little to no genesplicing. Because of that, I think any podmorph made with off-the-shelf parts will likely to have aptitudes of 30 (even SOM), with 25 being the lowest it might go. Building pods with less SOM cap would either take extra work to make it naturally that low, or it might be 'damage' that basic biomods can heal over time.
Fri, 2016-10-07 16:05
#12
Luckmann
Rules-wise, as far as I can
Rules-wise, as far as I can discern, Pods would use regular drugs, not narcoalgorithms.
The section in the core rulebook on Pods state, on pg. 142, top of second column, that: [b][i]"Unless otherwise noted, pods are also considered biomorphs for all rules purposes.[/b][/i]
Now, as to whether that makes sense or not, I really don't know, since I'm a newbie enough to only just have figured out what pods are at all.
I haven't even had a chance to play the game yet, but if I were to make a knee-jerk decision based on what little I know and how pods are described as functioning, I'd say that Mental drugs would have to be narcoalgorithms, while Physical drugs would have to be, well, physical drugs.
I base this argument on the fact that pods are rapidly grown and assembled biological constructs, and so drugs that act physically would have to be biological or chemical in nature, but pods don't have biological brains, so anything affecting the mind would have to be a narcoalgorithm.
But RAW, pods are biomorphs unless specifically referred to as otherwise.
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Fri, 2016-10-07 16:59
#13
DivineWrath
On page 323, it says that
On page 323, it says that pods can use narcoalgorithms because they have a cyberbrain. Technically, pod brains are part organic, part computer. In theory, they get the best of both worlds... or the worst of both if you look at it another way.
I wouldn't worry about being a newbie. I've been reading these books on and off for a few years now and there is still nuances I haven't mastered yet, and stuff I only recently figured out.
Fri, 2016-10-07 19:11
#14
MAD Crab
From an anti-cheese
From an anti-cheese perspective I have to say that building a morph with a permanent, always on narcoalgorithm with no penalty is just trying to sidestep the attribute bonus costs. However you justify the attribute bonus, it's still a bonus and the morph cost should reflect it.
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Sun, 2016-10-09 01:22
#15
DivineWrath
Are you saying that I should
Are you saying that I should price the aptitude bonuses that morphs get from the drug glands as normal aptitude bonuses? So instead of paying 1000 cr (0.25 cp) for a drug gland that gives a +5 bonus, you're saying that I should pay about 7.5 cp for that +5 bonus?
The drawbacks for drug addition isn't nice. It limits options for remorphing (some additions travel with the ego), reduces the durability of morphs (physical addiction), and ability to make good willpower stress tests (mental addiction).
Sun, 2016-10-09 01:45
#16
Trappedinwikipedia
The hyperbright seems like a
The hyperbright seems like a useful reference here. It doesn't have drug glands, but it does come with a built in addiction to drugs. Perhaps stick on a built in addiction to go with the glands? That might be a powerful buff though, depending on exactly how that trait works when resleeving.
Mon, 2016-10-10 07:51
#17
ThatWhichNeverWas
I have an organ that pumps joghurt directly into my brain!
Okay, I got the wrong impression describing them as slipshod.
Regardless, the questions that need to be addressed are “Why aren't all morphs made like this” and “What makes these morphs different from normal ones with extra glands”.
Whilst a SOM of 5 was admittedly extreme, the though behind it was that the creators use pharmaceuticals or procedures during morph growth that are beneficial for the desired task but carry side-effects which prevent their widespread use – for example one that improves Cognition but causes muscle tremors or prevent their proper development.
Similarly, Combat morphs may have their cognitive or social skills impaired to improve their combat ability.
Similarly, if the morphs are supposed to be;
… then something in the design should reflect that, like a Moderate Addiction to 'Being In A Healing Vat' or Aggressive GRM to represent the morph needing periodic maintenance.
As an aside, I realize I'm pushing Traits a lot, but they're the best way to represent specific Morph features.
Also, if you don use them then don't feel restricted to looking at Morph Traits or Negative traits. Any and all should be possibilities, so long as they highlight the important design elements.
A morph with average attributes and only a few augments but loaded with weird trait combinations is going to feel a lot different than those usually available.
—
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few.
But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
Wed, 2016-10-12 12:14
#18
jackgraham
This gets a bit weird,
This gets a bit weird, because some drugs fuel or catalyze physiological changes in the body via their presence as chemicals. We didn't care to go into this level of detail just to make pods more realistic. But I could see where the a GM might rule that drugs with a strong physiological effect (as opposed to being primarily entheogenic or mood-latering) don't work on pods as narcoalgorithms, or deliver only partial effects. A GM who rules that an always-on combat narcoalgorithm isn't effective in a pod is on firm ground, in the fiction if not in the mechs.
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J A C K G R A H A M :: Hooray for Earth!
http://eclipsephase.com :: twitter @jackgraham @faketsr :: Google+Jack Graham
Wed, 2016-10-12 21:21
#19
DivineWrath
Well, this was an effort to
Well, this was an effort to try to push the rules to the limit. I'm trying to design a bunch of morphs to get a good sense of the morph creation rules. When I found that morphs that use drugs hasn't happened yet (to the best of my knowledge), I figured that I would give drug morphs a try. I figured that if I was already going to get a price discount from using drugs instead of aptitude increases anyways, and there might be some stigma with drug morphs, that they might as well be pods.
Question. Should there be a social stigma category for drug morphs? It sounds like it might happen. However, these morphs already get a price discount for being pods and using drugs to get aptitude bonuses. I ask because I don't want to appear to be trying to cheat the system.
Remaining questions.
-Are there rules for overdosing? I can't find any.
-Are there negative side effects for being a long term user of cognitive drugs? There are none mentioned for using drugs like Klar or Drive.
Near as I can tell, the 2 morphs I created thus far are completely legal. The Neophyte can use its drugs 24 hours a day and will suffer no long term side effects (except from addiction). The Drug Fiend has to worry about long term loss to SOM and COO because of Kick and MRDR. That's probably fixable using a healing vat, and maybe fixable using medichines.
As for fixing addiction, one can probably resleeve anyone using the Drug Fiend into another morph and let it go cold turkey until the addiction is cured. Maybe insert an AI to keep the morph feed and stuff, or attach it to some life support stuff and leave it lying on a table. The Neophyte has it harder as its addictions are mental. I suppose you could put the ego into an infomorph prison and time accelerate it until its cured. Maybe sleeve it into a morph or Eidolon with high WIL bonuses to increase odds of success. There doesn't appear to be any psychosurgery procedure that targets addiction specifically. I'm not sure how behavior control would clash with addiction when they have opposing goals. Opposed tests?
Edit: I found the Zen Pilot variant of the Hibernoid (Morph Recognition Guide, p 115). It has drug glands for drugs that will help with long term isolation. No mention of extra side effects.
Fri, 2016-10-14 10:02
#20
MAD Crab
Please note the part where I
Please note the part where I said "without drawbacks." Drug glands have to be triggered (I'm pretty sure), and long term use would certainly get you a brand new Addicted trait.
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