Okay, so, working on a little conundrum here, discussing with my players about Unarmed and two-weapon fighting in melee. Now personally, the rules to me always give the impression like you basically don't get dual-wielding benefits in unarmed. Because that brings up a crazy rabbit hole of "well, are my elbows and knees extra weapons?". The section in the rules which says "Note that extra limbs do not count as extra weapons in unarmed combat" seems to agree.
So here comes a complexity, namely the Unarmed implant weapons. Cyberclaws in it's text says "hand", singular. So when you buy cyberclaws, do you install them in only one limb? Do you need to pay for multiple limbs? Can you gain extra weapon benefits from multiple cyberclaw sets?
I tried to check on bioware Claws to see if that shed some insight, and the result is even more confusing. That is simply phrases as "you have retractable claws like a cat". So, is that in all your manipulator limbs? That seems kind of weird given the slight cost difference between the two options, Claws is everywhere but you have to specify where Cyberclaws goes.
So I decided to come to the forums and ask, see if maybe a dev could clarify RAI, or if anybody else has a more clear reading of the rules from somewhere.
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Cyberclaws
Sun, 2016-08-14 17:44
#1
UnitOmega
Cyberclaws
Sun, 2016-08-14 18:11
#2
Trappedinwikipedia
I think cyberclaws aren't
I think cyberclaws aren't actually unarmed attacks. They're pretty large (being essentially a 6" blade), and strictly speaking, aren't a body part. I do think they're only installed in a single hand, but they are full blade weapons.
It's kinda hard to say whether cyberclaws are under unarmed or blades.
Sun, 2016-08-14 18:29
#3
UnitOmega
Well, under the melee weapon
Well, under the melee weapon table, they're listed as Unarmed. And given how EP splits hairs on weapon mechanics, I can see the reasoning. It's still fixed to your hand, so the mechanics of it are an extension of your body movement in ways and styles which are different (or more limited) than say with a knife or flex cutter.
Just making them blades might be a way to just resolve this "overlap" problem, though.
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H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog
http://ephrep.blogspot.com/
Sun, 2016-08-14 19:04
#4
Trappedinwikipedia
That just makes this even
That just makes this even more confusing, as that means there are no "implant blades" for the blades skill specialization to work on.
I personally just let people use whichever one makes sense, because melee is so rarely important.
Sun, 2016-08-14 23:35
#5
MrWigggles
I would probably just ad hoc,
I would probably just ad hoc, something like a RoboCop holster, but for a blade. Its stored internally, and then can be used externally.
Mon, 2016-08-15 03:52
#6
DivineWrath
I would find it silly if
I would find it silly if getting cyberclaws only gave you a weapon for only one arm.
From what I understand, weapons designed to be used as pairs or as sets can't benefit from multi-weapon fighting. They must be used as a single weapon. Unarmed attacks (even with extra limbs), bioware claws, cyberclaws, and even densiplastic gloves count as such. EP Core Rulebook p. 206 covers fighting with 2 or more weapons.
There is something to be noted. It seems that cyberclaws function more like a wasp knife than other kinds of weapons. For its price, one could argue that it should be doing at least 2d10 damage (like swords), but it instead delivers a payload with each attack. The wasp knife is a melee weapon that can deliver an extra payload like poison, nanotoxin, or compressed air (deadly in space). The cyberclaws can deliver electric shocks from eelware, or payloads from poison glands and implanted nanotoxins. I'm suggesting that cyberclaws simply don't work as the kind of weapon you think it should.
That said, I'll keep tabs on this thread. I would like cyberclaws that dealt more damage. Whenever I look at them, I feel I rather grab a sword or two (cheaper and does more damage).
Mon, 2016-08-15 14:53
#7
uwtartarus
Isn't there an implanted
Isn't there an implanted weapon for like gun-arms, and theoretically, monofilament knife implants that you would use Implant Blades for?
No idea though, this does seem like a conundrum.
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Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Mon, 2016-08-15 15:17
#8
UnitOmega
The Hand Laser does use beam
The Hand Laser does use beam weapons, and there is no rule you can't weapon mount a melee weapon, as far as I know. But still, we seem to have come into a deep bog where the rules may or may not overlap without a lot of clarification.
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H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog
http://ephrep.blogspot.com/