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Explain to a Player

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Wed, 2016-04-06 22:50
#1
DiploRaptor DiploRaptor's picture
Explain to a Player
I need to explain to a player without being mean or rude how no they cannot take a Helmet and have it stack with a vacsuit as that makes no sense. You don't just take a vacuum sealed suit and put another helmet over the helmet... that just doesn't work but the darn excel sheet thinks its ok.
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Wed, 2016-04-06 23:59
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
Keep in mind that a helmet
Keep in mind that a helmet and a vacsuit might do fairly different things. For instance, a vacsuit is intended to keep space out and people in. This doesn't necessarily come with a whole lot of armor, because (especially with self-repairing smart materials) the emphasis is on making it contain the environment rather than resisting damage. Bullets aren't as much of a concern as regulating pressure. Adding an actual solid helmet instead of the smart hood could be a great way to increase armor, as it's actually meant to protect a very squishy part of a morph from very dangerous outside forces. This probably doesn't work with traditional vacsuits, though. If they're like the old astronaut or cosmonaut suits, you'll be stuck in a rub, because while you could conceivably wear a helmet over a newer smart suit to add a second protective layer, if you're stuck in a bulky suit you won't be able to fit a second helmet on. And no, an "adjustable helmet" that expands to fit over the standard vacsuit one is unlikely to be useful for protective purposes, given the structural integrity that would be lost that way.
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Thu, 2016-04-07 01:06
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
I believe this is where you
I believe this is where you start drawing the line between vac Suits and Hard Suits. I suppose you could could take the helmet from a hard suit and use it on a vac suit but that kind of jury rigging may not have the best of seals and defiantly should not stack on top of vac suit stats, more like augment upward slightly. when the munchkins get rowdy i get the spray bottle :P
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Thu, 2016-04-07 01:18
UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
Depends highly on the Vac
Depends highly on the Vac Suit and Helmet in question, I think. Light Vac Suit or Smart Vac Clothes is probably just a sealed bubble or hood, they aren't made with a lot of rigid components. You might be able to wear a light helmet over that. Or, a much smarter move, get a full helmet and integrate that into the Light Vacsuit, that'll actually get you more hours of air and some additional features. At the very least that should not be a difficult field modification, and 8/8 is proper pathetic in terms of armoring, some naked synthmorphs have armor as good as that. The Standard Vacsuit, on the other hand, should be more akin to a modern space suit, and actually has some greebles on it. However, this is a good point to bring up that the excel sheets are not in charge (nor are they an official product). [i]You[/i] are in charge, don't be afraid to go rule 0. The sheet allows it because EP is not a very specific game, especially when it comes to it's parts interacting. This is, y'know, how PCs who are actually trying make some very scary armor builds - but the point is you have to apply common sense here.
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Thu, 2016-04-07 19:02
DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
The core rulebook has rules
The core rulebook has rules for layering armor. See p. 194 of the core rulebook.
Quote:
LAYERED ARMOR If two or more types of armor are worn, the armor ratings are added together. However, wearing multiple armor units is cumbersome and annoying. Apply a –20 modifier to a character’s actions for each addi- tional armor layer worn. The maximum value Armor may be raised to is the character’s Durability. Note that items specifically noted as armor accesso- ries—helmets, shields, etc.—do not inflict the layered armor penalty, they simply add their armor bonus. Note also that the armor inherent to a synthetic morph or bot’s frame does not constitute a layer of armor (i.e., you may wear armor over the synthetic shell without penalty).
So yeah, you "could" wear anything over anything. Just don't expect to work well. However, the helmet is considered an accessory, so it shouldn't clash because of the rules. It even has a full version that comes with life support and environmental sealing (for use with space suits I assume). Maybe one of the devs have considered what the player wants to do and has made special helmets just for that. You might have lost this argument with your player.
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Thu, 2016-04-07 21:18
ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
This is a setting with
This is a setting with nanotech factories that can make you a rocket launcher in a few hours. You can't just take an off-the-shelf vacsuit and an off-the-shelf combat helmet and make them work together... But you absolutely should be able to make them work together with some fairly simple modifications. Build the combat helmet [i]into[/i] the vacsuit if the vacsuit is a dumb-matter vacsuit, or nano-program the smartfabric vacsuit to work [i]with[/i] the helmet. As a GM, I find it to be helpful advice to try not to say "no" unless what the player wants is [i]insane[/i]. Try instead to either say "yes" if their request is perfectly reasonable, or "okay, [i]but[/i]." For instance, in this case, you're saying "Okay, but you'll have to build the helmet onto the vacsuit, or else program a smartfabric suit to work with the helmet."
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Thu, 2016-04-07 22:27
UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
And put up with the potential
And put up with the potential social ramifications of being that weirdo who has a ballistic helmet glued on to his vacsuit... for some reason.
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H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/
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Fri, 2016-04-08 08:04
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
Teamfortress teaches us that Hats are exponential.
Worst case, just say the vacsuit already has a helmet built in, and the bonuses are already included.
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In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
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Sun, 2016-04-10 16:27
godmoney godmoney's picture
so, you don't think that a
so, you don't think that a smart vacsuit would form itself around the helmet to form a seal? not very smart if it wouldn't.
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Sun, 2016-04-10 20:33
DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
Would you even need a smart
Would you even need a smart suit to do that? I would think that different kinds of space gear would fit together. Design goal and all. Even Russia and the US took the time to figure out how to be able to dock with each other for goals such as being able to rescue the other in a crisis.
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Sun, 2016-04-10 21:26
Lazarus Lazarus's picture
What I would do is I wouldn't
What I would do is I wouldn't simply tell the player 'no' but I would try and work with them to see what it is they think they are doing and want to achieve. If the idea is that they have a heavy military grade helmet and they think they should get extra protection from it when they are using a light vaccsuit then come up with values that you think are fair. They don't have to get the full +3/+3 of the heavy helmet but an extra +1/+1 or +2/+2 seem reasonable. If they are using it to try and expand some of the electronic capabilities of the standard vaccsuit that also seems extremely reasonable. On the other hand if all they are doing is being a munchkin and trying to push up their armor value by the full +3/+3 then say no because they can then turn around and use the same argument for 'adding' a helmet to a hardsuit and all of a sudden they have +19/+19 armor.
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Mon, 2016-04-11 02:54
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
Lazarus wrote:What I would do
Lazarus wrote:
What I would do is I wouldn't simply tell the player 'no' but I would try and work with them to see what it is they think they are doing and want to achieve. If the idea is that they have a heavy military grade helmet and they think they should get extra protection from it when they are using a light vaccsuit then come up with values that you think are fair. They don't have to get the full +3/+3 of the heavy helmet but an extra +1/+1 or +2/+2 seem reasonable. If they are using it to try and expand some of the electronic capabilities of the standard vaccsuit that also seems extremely reasonable. On the other hand if all they are doing is being a munchkin and trying to push up their armor value by the full +3/+3 then say no because they can then turn around and use the same argument for 'adding' a helmet to a hardsuit and all of a sudden they have +19/+19 armor.
Isn't there an explicit 16/16 cap for armor, with an additional 16/16 for synths?
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Mon, 2016-04-11 10:02
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
not that i remember
not that i remember
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Mon, 2016-04-11 11:53
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
It's not quite that bad.
The armor cap is in the rules for Layering on page 194, and is equal to the Morph's Durability. However, armor in general suffers from diminishing gains due thanks to Called Shots and damage pumping. That's why I wouldn't worry too much about the helmet bonus.
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In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
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Mon, 2016-04-11 12:50
Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
Layering armor rules usually
Layering armor rules usually provide a soft-cap before the durability limits. It's pretty easy to make a 40 armor Reaper tank monster though.
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Tue, 2016-04-19 11:51
Kremlin K.O.A. Kremlin K.O.A.'s picture
If a player wants to armor
If a player wants to armor their head when in their vacsuit, well, let them. Point out that you would need to modify the suit to work with the helmet. Note that this would require some design and programming rolls to make the schematics for the modified suit, or modified interface between helmet and suit. Point out that they will also need some fabber or CM time to churn out their modified equipment systems. Check their rep and design abilities. Do they have the techie mindset to make this work? Does someone else in the team? Do they have the networking and rep to get someone to make one of these 'hardhat vacsuits' Yeah, they now have a new piece of gear, with a 10/10 armor rating. But they had to use a high cost purchase, some design skills, and about half a session of adventure and social interaction to get it. They have just designed a piece of tech that fits in a niche between medium vacsuits and hardsuits. You also got a free adventure session handed to you by your player.
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Wed, 2016-04-20 05:55
ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
Kremlin K.O.A. wrote:If a
Kremlin K.O.A. wrote:
If a player wants to armor their head when in their vacsuit, well, let them. Point out that you would need to modify the suit to work with the helmet. Note that this would require some design and programming rolls to make the schematics for the modified suit, or modified interface between helmet and suit. Point out that they will also need some fabber or CM time to churn out their modified equipment systems. Check their rep and design abilities. Do they have the techie mindset to make this work? Does someone else in the team? Do they have the networking and rep to get someone to make one of these 'hardhat vacsuits' Yeah, they now have a new piece of gear, with a 10/10 armor rating. But they had to use a high cost purchase, some design skills, and about half a session of adventure and social interaction to get it. They have just designed a piece of tech that fits in a niche between medium vacsuits and hardsuits. You also got a free adventure session handed to you by your player.
And then for fun and profit, have the design start propagating. Suddenly, everyone wants a hardhead vacsuit, and they've become all the rage. Your player's @-rep (for originating the idea) and r-rep (if they're the ones who designed and implemented it) go up by 10... But all that attention might bring them to the notice of powerful people... Alternatively, because the idea is (a) obvious and (b) fairly simple, just say that yes, they can find CM blueprints for a vacsuit that already incorporates a military helmet and move on.
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Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name. [url=http://tinyurl.com/mfcapss]My EP Character Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/lbpsb93]Thread for my Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/obu5adp]The Five Orange Pips[/url]
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