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Secrecy on Titan

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Wed, 2015-12-09 01:40

uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture

Secrecy on Titan

If the protagonists discovered some juicy secret (like what the Section Three microcorps might be up to), how could they be silenced? How could a conspiracy exist in a strongly pro-transparency society like the Titanian Commonwealth? The Section Three microcorps and their secrecy reminds me that while the Commonwealth is all idealistic, it has skeletons in its closets as it were, and flaws that would undermine these ideals. Reminded of Wallander show/franchise, the one episode of the UK version had some politicians and police leadership all conspiring to keep secret some politicians violent fetish (he tortured girls I think?) because it was an example of the failures of their society's idealized sexual politics or something. So the idea of conspiracies that defy the ideals, in pursuit of these same ideals, strikes me as something interest and worth exploring, but how can you keep secrets in a very transparent society? Or rather, if a secret leaked, how could the conspiracy stop it from spreading if all it takes it just copy-pasta-ing the secrets onto the local mesh?

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Exhuman, and Humanitarian.

Wed, 2015-12-09 02:09

MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture

Well, have that kinda of

Well, that kinda of corruption would be harder to have in Commonwealth. None of their public offices are held for very long. So there no investment to keep their dirty laundry a secret. And the State Secrets for Commonwealth are not held to individuals, but through the smart system, Orchestra, which purposefully doens't have an ego. (In the metaphysical sense.) A lot of the economic systems which made it worthwhile to stop public figures from having their image ruined, dont exist in the Commonwealth. I'm not really sure what kind of corruption that can happen in the Commonwealth.

Wed, 2015-12-09 03:19

ringring

So then what about the Tongs?

St. Catherine Tong is on par with syndicates like 9 lives, they pull some truly heinous shit, and they are based right of Titan. Its kind of like the pedophile ring they found in the Netherlands a few years back, one of the largest in the world, hiding right in plain sight. Maybe there is such a thing as too tolerant.

Wed, 2015-12-09 03:38

ringring

Maybe the problem would be more subtle

Like the public simply allowing or tolerating corruption or turning a blind eye towards certain kinds of crimes. There is probably a strong anti-immigrant sentiment towards infugees due to the one body, one mind policy, so hate crimes towards synths and pods might go unnoticed or are maybe even encouraged. A famous politician might have a well documented preference for neotenics, so when somebody finds out he has been trying the real thing, it would be easy to put a spin on it and dismiss it as a misunderstanding. In fact, any number of sex crimes leading to rape, torture or murder could be swept under the rug in a country that sometimes places more value on privacy and sexual freedom than it does on responsibility and accountability. Then there is always the issue of trading kronars for credits, selling government surplus morphs like hazers on the open market, arms manufacture and sale to anarchist and extropian habitats, stuff like that.

Wed, 2015-12-09 05:04

Tango

ringring wrote:Maybe there is

ringring wrote:
Maybe there is such a thing as too tolerant.

Pretty much this. The Titanian Commonwealth is modeled after scandinavian social democracies and their apparent successes. Being lived my whole life in all of those countries i can say with some certainty that the socialist experiment is coming to an end because of too tolerant attitudes towards everything. The scandinavian model works only with a homogeneous population that shares the same values. Also, geography plays a key role in the inception of those values. Scandinavia is a cold & hard place to live, and so a certain set of values merged from that environment that enabled it's people to survive and thrive. Here's some in-depth discussion about the matter: [youtube]D0hnA341AWE[/youtube] Today's scandinavia is one giant social benefits bonanza. The lack of incentives to work has passivated the population to the point where nothing really matters as long as those benefits keep flowing. Corrupt politicians? Who cares. Too lax migration policies? Well, those people from another culture that's diametrically opposed to ours taking over aren't bothering me yet, so fuck it. This will end in a catastrophe. So yes, i can easily see big institutions/ people in power getting away with murder on Titan. Nobody cares, because it doesn't affect them (yet).

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- "Mom's chicken soup, maybe?"

Wed, 2015-12-09 08:24

hyades

uwtartarus wrote:If the

uwtartarus wrote:
If the protagonists discovered some juicy secret (like what the Section Three microcorps might be up to), how could they be silenced? How could a conspiracy exist in a strongly pro-transparency society like the Titanian Commonwealth?

As MrWigggles suggested, the Orchestra could be what you're looking for. Classify something as a state secret and it vanishes into an obscure system that nobody seems to fully control. I'm sure there are ways to use that to your advantage if you're a high level politician or Fleet/CID official. You could also feed misleading information into the attachee AIs and have them reveal seemingly trustworthy, official information that counters stuff that's being leaked about you and your conspiracy. Also special debriefings (psychosurgery etc.) are legal in cases of terrorism, treason and so on. So in theory you could use Geeddis SP or worse to take care of people who know too much.

uwtartarus wrote:
Or rather, if a secret leaked, how could the conspiracy stop it from spreading if all it takes it just copy-pasta-ing the secrets onto the local mesh?

Well, that's a problem everyone has, not just the Titanians. ;-)

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[...] vidi ingentis portenta ruinae, vidi hominum divumque metus hilaremque Megaeram et Lachesin putri vacuantem saecula penso. Stat. Theb. 3, 640-42.

Wed, 2015-12-09 19:40

MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture

I'm not sure how you can fool

I'm not sure how you can fool the Orchestra. From how its presented in the books, it doesn't do value judgments pre se. If you had one politician feeding it bad information, it would use its statically analysis to see if this is possibility and then independently verify it. Maybe you can get an attaché to reveal secrets if you could have it loose mesh access and put on enough of a show to make it seem like a genuine need for information.

Fri, 2015-12-11 04:15

LatwPIAT

Tango wrote:Pretty much this.

Tango wrote:
Pretty much this. The Titanian Commonwealth is modeled after scandinavian social democracies and their apparent successes. Being lived my whole life in all of those countries i can say with some certainty that the socialist experiment is coming to an end because of too tolerant attitudes towards everything. The scandinavian model works only with a homogeneous population that shares the same values. Also, geography plays a key role in the inception of those values. Scandinavia is a cold & hard place to live, and so a certain set of values merged from that environment that enabled it's people to survive and thrive. Here's some in-depth discussion about the matter: Today's scandinavia is one giant social benefits bonanza. The lack of incentives to work has passivated the population to the point where nothing really matters as long as those benefits keep flowing. Corrupt politicians? Who cares. Too lax migration policies? Well, those people from another culture that's diametrically opposed to ours taking over aren't bothering me yet, so fuck it. This will end in a catastrophe.

The claims you make about Scandinavian society here are highly exaggerated (and the video is very one-sided, as well being ridiculous in its presentation through the use of loaded language. It does not appear to be a rigorous discussion of the topic.). And, wow, people are passive about immigration and don't care about the immigration policies? That's simply untrue. If it was true, xenophobia and ethno-religious racism against Muslims would not be on the rise and the Sweden Democrats would not be in force in Swedish politics. Nor, if people were so passive, would 14 asylum receptacles have been targets of arson in the last half a year. Countries with an average of 80% voter turnout in elections are not countries where nobody cares. This idea that Scandinavia is a country of passive welfare-queens where there are no economic incentives to do anything so nobody bothers is a bunch of, at best, ignorant claims and at worst outright lies. At least that's what I think, after living in Scandinavia for my entire life.

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@-rep +2 C-rep +1

Fri, 2015-12-11 16:12

Tango

The very fact that we've let

The very fact that we've let thing fall this far proves that we don't care. Only now that the problems are at our own literal doorstep, we see reaction...even if all this could've been predicted (and was predicted) well before hand. It is only when our own neighbourhood turns into shit and our own personal security is compromised that we act. Or that our social benefits are cut because money is redistributed elsewhere. Voter turnout in Finland has been hovering around 65-68% for a long time and only after major economic turn down and the emergence of external threats (that would be the EU) has it pushed beyond 70%. I submit that the general will to act/affect rises from immediate personal needs, not from a long term vision of the betterment of our society. So, last week Finland's finmin lied to the parliament to sway their opinion on a planned new financial register (sponsored by big money), and got caught. You know what happened? NOTHING. He said he was sorry, though. This is what i'm talking about. So, a Titanian official gets caught for providing false information or is connected to some shady business? Meh. Or BAAAAAA....!!!

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- "Mom's chicken soup, maybe?"

Sat, 2015-12-12 06:27

#10

MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture

What the fuck is big money/

Sat, 2015-12-12 17:20

#11

SquireNed

MrWigggles wrote:What the

MrWigggles wrote:
What the fuck is big money/

It's a term used for financial industries: banks, investment corporations, etc. It's the equivalent of, say, "Big Pharma", which is the term used for medicine manufacturers. It doesn't refer to any one company, but rather the collective lobbying interests of multiple aligned corporations.

Sat, 2015-12-12 19:56

#12

MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture

So its not the comically

So its not the comically large checks?

Sat, 2015-12-12 23:17

#13

SquireNed

MrWigggles wrote:So its not

MrWigggles wrote:
So its not the comically large checks?

Well, that too. Any payment method also mistaken for billboard ads tends to draw attention.