I've been following the discussion on this forum about sexual dimorpmism and I would like to talk to the wider customs and mores around sexuality and how they might change in this or in a general transhumanist setting.
First what is sex to a transhuman?
Second, does it even involve reproduction or has it become almost entirely divorced with sex and reproduction as two different historically related topics?
Third, if sex has shifted to being thought of acts for sensations and social value would they consider more things to be sexual?
Fourth when what you're born as practically speaking is little more than a default preference setting what does that do for sex? Gender and even species can be changed with morphs and psycosurgery can change one's preferences and ideals. What does it mean when being gay, straight or even human is a choice? How does society look upon those changes?
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Sexual mores in transhuman and post-fall society
Mon, 2015-07-27 15:46
#1
Gerzel
Sexual mores in transhuman and post-fall society
Mon, 2015-07-27 18:18
#2
ShadowDragon8685
Gerzel wrote:I've been
This probably varies from person to person, let alone culture to culture, but in general, it's safe to say that if anybody is orgasming, it's sexual in nature, if not sex itself. It's also safe to say that if a penis is going inside someone anywhere in the vicinity of their pelvis, it's sex, but not 100% safe, since I'm sure there's some people who consider anal to not be proper sex. A few of them. They probably live in the Junta.
Depends on where you are, but only the most arch-conservative Jovian Catholic Church religious fanactic and similar screwballs would consider sex to be something done wholly for reproduction. Even the Jovian Pope probably laughs at him.
Most people would only dimly remember that it's even [b]possible[/b] to create a new biomorph by having sex with someone. Some people may be completely unaware of it unless their muses inform them of that fact. You have to dig up someone who is really of the school of old to remember a time when there was such a thing as [u]unintended[/u] pregnancy. It would be a nigh-alien concept to most people in Eclipse Phase. So, yes.
Rubbing your sexy bits against other people's sexy bits is something most people in the 22nd century do because it's fun, or to express dominance in some cases. It's not something most people even connect to reproduction. This actually came up in a game I was in, when an NPC my character was about to sleep with asked if her gender-blender penis was "active," and she was confused at first, then it came out that the other party hadn't had the biomods that let you turn off reproduction at-will. I figured my character would be thoroughly confused by that.
That depends largely on where you are, I imagine. Certainly, the Scum and most Anarchists/Autonomists are working hard to expand the definitions of the word, if only by inventing new genders and new anatomy. If anything, I think lightened taboos everywhere may have greatly reduced what is considered sexual and what isn't. Even on Mars or Luna, I don't think many would consider someone walking around with bare breasts to be particularly sexual, unless someone was actively macking on them.
This, again, depends largely on where you are.
In most of the system, I would say that getting biomods to change/enhance your sexual characteristics and psychosurgery to adjust what you find sexy, is basically no big deal. In some places it might make you taboo, of course; paradoxically, amongst the hyperrich immortal oligarchs, I would expect heteronormative and homonormative sexuality to be prevalent, and if you run in those circles, you might find yourself socially ostracized if you change your orientation, or admit to being bisexual, and anything radically different could be disastrous (say, going Winter.) The oldest ones we know can date from the 1980s.
In arch-conservative places, places where they still expect you to reproduce the tabA-to-slotB way, even homosexuality might be strongly frowned upon. Finding places like that would be like finding a population center on Earth which the TITANs never ruined. Even the Junta probably mostly reproduces without that whole biological mess, using tanks and such.
In most of the rimward places, nobody gives a damn what you do, while more extremes might be scorned Sunward. For instance, Winterists are probably considered a little weird, but that's all, in most Rimward societies, while they might be avoided in Sunward ones. That said, I wouldn't consider hermaphroditism or other gender-bending to be outrageous or very unusual in most habs Sunward, either.
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Mon, 2015-07-27 20:33
#3
UnitOmega
Actually, I'd say probably
Actually, I'd say probably your wildest, freakiest and most boundary pushing sex probably happens behind closed oligarchy doors. Immortality Blues means you've been around a long time, and so normal functions are so boring these days you have to go beyond the pale to get your rocks off. It's more likely than no, especially given a lot of inspiration from EP coming from [i]Altered Carbon[/i] (and all the jokes about sex dungeons and precious metal plated slitheroids covered in dildos). The fact that some of them are old enough to be from our modern or just pre-current is meaningless, people got freaky at all times (especially those times you think they weren't) - the years are just going to push that extremism. Scum and Anarchists are fairly young groups, and Anarchism doesn't make resources magically appear, The Hyperelite have had a lot of time and a LOT of money to blow trying new things. Of course, the freakiest stuff does have to happen behind closed doors, just like it does now - there is an image to maintain.
Also, the Fall was only 10 years ago. And there are a lot of Flats, ex-Flats, and possibly even unmodded (or previously un-modded) Splicers running around. Refugee populations are big on Jove and Orbit. Just because people don't have to worry about it now doesn't mean they don't know a few things about reproduction and unplanned pregnancy. The fool-proof contraception is a function of Basic Biomods. Not everybody was born with those. That being said, even Jovians are okay with the exowomb and genefix process - so this knowledge and association will start reducing. Anybody born after the fall not into a refu slum will probably have a different association about contraception functions - and their sex ed will have to do with making sure your contraception barriers are on and not to void the GRM restrictions on your morph-line by producing unlicensed copies.
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Tue, 2015-07-28 00:25
#4
Noble Pigeon
For reproduction: I play it
For reproduction: I play it in my games is that most new human egos that aren't forks are still born normally, albeit in exowombs. At least, that's how it goes in most places 'round the solar system. With the more out there factions like the scum...who the fuck knows what those creatures are doing.
For everything else I pretty much go with what the core book says about this stuff: sex is more casual and people experiment with it more, and people don't usually reproduce as much as they did because of fear of the future, the cost of having children, and long-term planning of a very, very long life.
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Tue, 2015-07-28 03:03
#5
DarckChild
Why does sex have to be physical?
Virtual environs can have more privacy and more settings.
XP feeds let you have sex through someone else's perceptions (private thoughts, contact, smell, taste...)
Skin links and other neural interfaces.
Let's not forget that your Muse can be a virtual partner in more ways than one.
Bot Jamming also takes on a whole meaning...
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Tue, 2015-07-28 04:49
#6
ShadowDragon8685
UnitOmega wrote:Actually, I'd
Nothing you've said is incompatible in the slightest with anything I've said.
The jaded immortal oligarchs are almost certainly getting up to newer and freakier things to get their rocks off, or else having their brains psychosurgeried so they find more normal things arousing again.
But they're still going to behave as if they were hetero- or homonormative, and ostracize any of their own who let it get out that they spent a weekend having a gigantic bull-woman fuck them in an entirely new orifice they had installed expressly for the purpose with a horse-cock while whipping them and making them beg.
You don't need all that many resources to fuck, in fact.
There probably will not be that many Flats running around. Most of them died in the Fall.
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Tue, 2015-07-28 08:44
#7
LatwPIAT
ShadowDragon8685 wrote
The game is set a mere 10 years after the Fall; I think it'd be strange for those 500-ish million people who survived the fall to have only dim memories that, once upon a time, sex might possibly result in children.
I also estimate there's at least 56 million people around who are sleeved in Flats, half of which live on Luna and half in the Jovian Republic. These probably run the risk of accidental pregnancies. There's also over 250 million or so Splicers, for whom PIV sex can result in pregnancies should their Basic Biomods ever fail/momentarily slip up.
(Also, a terrorist group spreading a virus that causes contraceptives to fail because they believe that transhumanity has an imperative to go forth and multiply is [i]totally[/i] and EP thing.)
In short, I think that most people are well aware that PIV sex can result in pregnancies.
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Tue, 2015-07-28 09:04
#8
Rehab
The glitterati at least seem
The glitterati at least seem quite capable of falling in the category of mind-bending limit pushers sexually, yes, or at least I imagine many of them would like to think so. And of being a bit superior about it, too. (Lest Sunward's opening scene, gender-neutral (hell, sex-neutral) intercourse with a cloud in simulspace, be forgotten)
Wed, 2015-07-29 12:57
#9
Panoptic
It's only been ten years
It's only been ten years since the Fall. I doubt many people in habitats with Earth refugees are unaware that sex could lead to babies, even if they're ignorant of the fine details.
That said, sex has been distanced from reproduction. Morphs can be grown or built, but there's not a huge amount of setting information on creating new egos besides forking and programming.
Sex is enjoyable for most adult humans, so it stands to reason that many transhuman in human-like bodies are going to enjoy it too. And infomorph programming adds in literal mind screws.
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Wed, 2015-07-29 19:06
#10
Noble Pigeon
Panoptic wrote:It's only been
Well I'd [i]hope[/i] that most new egos come from actual new minds coming into existence that isn't forking, "programmed" (with the exception of AGIs of course), or merging two full egos together, the latter being absolutely horrifying. It would be pretty boring if, say, in two hundred years in Eclipse Phase's future everyone is either a clone of someone else's mind or they're simply programmed into existence.
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Wed, 2015-07-29 22:23
#11
self-relating n...
Noble Pigeon wrote:Panoptic
Biological sexual reproduction is already programming someone into existence. This is made more obvious as mastery over genetics strips the mystique of "naturalness" away from it - the history of humanity is (among other things) one long process of slowly gaining control of our bodies down to the genetic level.
Forking is not at all the same thing as cloning. Forking copies an ego, not a body. Further, it's impossble for forks to remain the same, which is why merging can be difficult.
Regarding the general awareness of pregnancy - of course everyone knows; it would have been part of every basic education. Plus, genetics and bio-sciences are a huge field in the Eclipse Phase setting, so anyone with a passing interest in these subjects invariably has some familiarity with sexual reproduction.
Fri, 2015-07-31 20:13
#12
uwtartarus
Except for those with Faulty
Except for those with Faulty Education, which is the point of that trait.
Or Real World Naivete to miss the connection between sex and pregnancy and thus slang like "let's put a baby into you/me," which, again, is the point of that trait.
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Fri, 2015-07-31 22:09
#13
UnitOmega
Real World Naivete probably
Real World Naivete probably applies more to slang and euphemisms. Most characters with it are either AGI or Re-Instantiated who have been out of it for a while. They would completely understand the concept of sexual reproduction and sexual intercourse, they just might not be up on all the ways (trans)humans refer to it other than "let's intercourse".
So "let's bang", "bumping uglies", or "hey bby show me your input port" could go over your head.
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Tue, 2015-08-04 15:07
#14
ThatWhichNeverWas
The highest level of acceptance is apathy.
One thing worth considering is the idea that "natural" childbearing is known but thought of as disgusting, in much the same way current humans no longer defecate out of our windows into the street.
I could also imagine natural pregnancies where alternatives are available as being seen as child abuse, considering the "ramming the newborn through a hole so small that the skull deforms" aspect, let alone the purest bodyhorror that a foetus experiences within the womb.
As for attitudes towards intercourse, I imagine that some scumswarms promote "promiscuity" to capitalize on sex's pair-bomd aspect, using the emotional connections to promote societal cohesion.
I could also see sex becoming a "sport" similar to ice skating, with points being awarded for skill, precision, creativity, and so on.
... Why is that horrifying?
Assuming all involved parties are fully developed consenting alphas, of course.
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Tue, 2015-08-04 15:56
#15
jKaiser
There's no way people don't
There's no way people don't remember sex and reproduction are connected. Beyond a biological imperative, everyone's meshed up and childhood education probably makes ours look pretty primitive.
The problem isn't ability to procreate. Whether or not a morph is able to is in the instruction manual, and exowomb availability/budgeting for baby is something muses take care of and provide reports for prospective parents. The question is if the built-in contraceptives are allowed to be disabled. The PC is openly policing a eugenics program, and even in non-PC locations, the overwhelmingly artificial and measured nature of modern habitats means that "Go forth and multiply" has been replaced with "We have X resources and Y space for Z population capacity." So whether you plan on doing it the old fashioned way or via Exowomb (or even forking or whatever), there's going to be paperwork and you'll probably have to be approved to do so.
The eradication/nullification of most STDs, virtually universal contraception, decline of conservative religion, and dawn of immortality, however, all mean that people are having lots and lots of sex. Exactly what it means to everyone is going to be case-by-case, but the books mention that casual sex is the norm, long-term contracts like marriage either don't exist or are very different, and so on. You probably don't see people banging on park benches too much (though for all we know there are a dozen habitats where public sex is a sport with leagues and speciality morphs), but the only real remaining obstacles to not fulfilling that near-universal and near-constant desire for physical pleasure are simple pragmatism ("I gotta get up for work in the morning"), personality chemistry, personal beliefs, and the individual(s) in question.
This isn't to say that sex means less. Without the physical risks of disease or unwanted pregnancy, however, its common meanings and importance have no doubt broadened. Again, this is very case-by-case, but drawing from examples of free-love culture, communes, cults to sex deties, hellfire clubs, and just trends around the world, sex just becomes another activity that can mean many different things to many different people. I think a lot of the intrinsic value equating sex with procreation would fade (particularly with the biodiversity and abundance simulspace options present meaning that of all the possible combinations of sex, only a handful could even produce a child in the first place).That doesn't mean that two people who are declared monogamous don't have the same deep connection during sex that our most idealized husband and wife might, of course. But you don't need to have sex to have a child -- the existence of asexual unions adopting children is evidence of that, and arguably homosexual couples doing the same too.
And as touched upon, "reproduction" has become a much, much more complicated matter now. What about mixed-species parents? Non-AGI infolife parents? Polyamorous or communal families? How are children...er...produced in such situations? (I don't know, just raising the points.)
Would more things be considered sexual? That's...not easy to answer. Mostly because the internet has already proven that [em]anything[/em] can be sexualized. It's a huge chunk of our brains, and just like we're hardwired to see faces in things, we're just as hardwired to see things in sexual lights. I'm going to answer with a qualified "Yes, there would be more things sexualized" simply because there are more things [em]to[/em] sexualize.
Tue, 2015-08-04 17:08
#16
Noble Pigeon
ThatWhichNeverWas wrote:
The book Transhuman makes it pretty clear that merging two completely different egos together (or two forks who have been separated for more than six months) is incredibly difficult and complex, with failure of the process turning the newly fused ego into a permanent vegetable [i]at best[/i]. If two people are crazy enough to willingly consent to that outcome being a very real and likely possibility, then by all means go crazy.
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Thu, 2015-08-06 09:07
#17
ThatWhichNeverWas
Rule 34 exists for a reason.
I'm pretty sure that the disabling of contracteptives (aka - not being sterile) is going to be a required feature of most morphs, because the lack of autonomous reproduction would be a solid X-risk. There always needs to be a mechanism to "make more mans", simple for the worst-case scenario and access to advanced medical care is no longer a possibility.
I can and will! :P
I mean, that's what forks are for. Muahahaaa....
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Thu, 2015-08-06 19:25
#18
jKaiser
ThatWhichNeverWas wrote
How do you figure? Not critisizing, I'm just curious how you came to that conclusion. I mean, there are a lot of practical obstacles to normal reprodcution with all the different morphlines and massively different genetics between morphs, and "Breeding Licences" are a canon part of the setting anyway (See: Hibernoid in MRG).
Tue, 2015-08-11 12:08
#19
ThatWhichNeverWas
Just because you have freedom doesn't mean it's not a Dystopia.
The cake has three layers;
1. The wording of the Aggressive GRM trait, specifically "A much more aggressive version of the genetic rights management used in rusters and other morphs that require maintenance through GSPs...Unless “unlocked” by the designer through further genehacking, this morph is sterile..." can be taken to imply that standard GRM doesn't cause sterility.
2. Transhumanity is pretty fresh out of a near-extinction event, and so everyone is going to be a tad more aware of the possibility of X-risks, coupled with the existence of Ozma, Firewall and the dozen other organisations who specifically watch for them. The possibility of losing Transhumanity's industrial/medical base is a known possibility, and considerations reflecting that should be standard.
3. It makes more financial sense to have GRM which causes helath problems for unlicensed offspring than GRM that prevents unlicensed offspring. The later not only means the creation of new customers for Corp-specific GRM maintenance packages, it also means that the parents can be charged with the violation at any time in the future, justifying the confiscation/reacquisition of morphs, funds and resources.
If they play it right, the Hypercorp can essentially farm the family for funds and fresh morphs in perpetuity under the guise of justice, generosity and legality.
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In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few.
But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
Wed, 2015-08-12 14:00
#20
Panoptic
Hypercorps with a claim to
Hypercorps with a claim to one's very genetics? Oh the story possibilities!
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