Something I'm curious about, if you build a Torus Habitat and it has one large ring as the main structure, if you had a smaller ring on the interior of that ring (I guess this photo (http://i.stack.imgur.com/hg9Eq.jpg) demonstrates what I'm talking about, basically?) and it was all being spun at the same rate, would it have the same gravity? Is there a good reason not to have multiple rings in your torus habitat?
Failing having one ring in the interior, could you have two rings side by side? Sorta like 2001: A Space Odyssey, but obviously spun properly for gravity.
Also, is Earth standard gravity specifically undesirable for habitats? Or do people just not really use earth gravity as a standard anymore?
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Torus Habitat - Multiple Rings?
Wed, 2015-07-01 03:10
#1
Torus Habitat - Multiple Rings?
Wed, 2015-07-01 03:18
#2
If I remember rightly, there
If I remember rightly, there are talks of exotic "disk" and "carousel" habitats in Panopticon which play with the standard Torus configuration. They're not optimal because they're slightly more complex usually but depending on the designer...
I am almost dead certain there are "double stacked" toruses though. Unless mentions I remember "two rings" was actually a design like your picture.
I think a majority of habs around earth are roughly .9 g. I see no reason why the wouldn't, though you might find an oddball with lunar gravity. Around Mars I think there are some more in-line with the Martian gravity, but honestly even if basic biomods prevent serious negative health effects of prolong micrograv, I have to imagine most non-bouncer morphs are more optimal in the Earth-like gravity. If nothing else .9/1 g is a nice round number in the middle of gravity tolerances.
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Wed, 2015-07-01 03:19
#3
As far as gravity goes, a lot
As far as gravity goes, a lot of things are more efficient in lower gravity, so a lot of habs will opt to use significantly less than earth gravity. I think half earth gravity is pretty popular overall.
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'No language is justly studied merely as an aid to other purposes. It will in fact better serve other purposes, philological or historical, when it is studied for love, for itself.' --J.R.R. Tolkien
Wed, 2015-07-01 09:58
#4
A lot of what I have read,
A lot of what I have read, iirc, makes me think that most habs don't bother spinning up to full 1g, slightly more energy for no real significant benefit.
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Wed, 2015-07-01 12:01
#5
Leetsepeak wrote:Something I
"Same rate" is slightly unclear. You are most likely referring to revolutions per minute but it is possible you are referring to the linear velocity. Assuming you are referring to RPM then the inner ring will have less gravity than the outer ring. If you are speaking of linear velocity then the inner ring will have more gravity than the outer ring.
Think of it this way; if you drive in a 50' circle in 60 seconds you will feel much lower g-force than if you drive a 5000' circle in 60 seconds. On the other hand if you drive a 5000' circle at 100 mph you will experience much lower g-force than if drive a 50' circle at 100 mph. This is why you slow down when you need to make sharp turns.
As for a good reason not to have multiple rings of the same size; if you take the material for both rings and you use it to make a single ring it will naturally be larger than the twin rings while still taking roughly the same amount of energy to spin up as the two rings. This is advantageous because on a spinning habitat you have an issue with what are known as tidal forces. As a simple example of tidal forces if the torus has a radius of 20m then the top of a person's head will experience only 90% of the gravity affecting their feet (since the distance from their head to the center is only 18m). On the other hand if the radius is 200m then the top of the person's head will experience 99% of the gravity affecting their feet.
On the other hand once a ring is built it is built and you can't really expand it. To grow a ringed habitat you might extend the central hub and then build a second parallel ring (I would then build tubes connecting the two rings at multiple points so you don't have to go through the hub but most multiple ring designs I've seen don't do that).
It would also be possible to build inner and outer rings and use them for activities that don't require standard gravity. As an example you could use inner rings for power production since that doesn't tend to require gravity. Materials storage would also work well since lower gravity would make it easier to move the materials.
Outer rings might be used for food production. The outer ring would have more space and the plants could be genetically modified to deal with the heavier gravity although constantly transitioning from normal gravity to higher gravity would not necessarily be pleasant for the workers. This might mean heavy bot use or stronger sociological separation as you have a 'farmer caste' who prefers to spend most of their time in the outer ring while most people prefer to spend most of their time in the central ring (the gravity difference probably won't be high enough that people on the central ring can't go to the outer ring unless the outer ring has a significantly larger radius).
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Wed, 2015-07-01 22:08
#6
If that's all a single
If that's all a single structure then the inner torus will experience less simulated gravity. There are several locations in Eclipse Phase that have multiple gravities available. Selene at Luna has the main torus at .16 G and several pods on tethers a few kilometers out at .36 G. Rimward pg. 57 has the Mayhem Zaibatsu habitat with three nested toruses at Venusian, Martian, and roughly Lunar/Titanian. Curiously, Gerlach at Venus has a cylinder and torus at .5 and full Venusian gravity respectively doesn't work that way. The different radiuses aren't far enough apart so they would need to be rotating at different speeds.
Now you can have multiple rings in a number of different ways. A barbell-like structure like 2001 is a possibility, as is a stack of toruses like a cake to almost form a cylinder. As for a practical reason for two same size toruses, that comes down to where you want it to point. Linking two counter- rotating habitats cancels out their tendency to precede and makes it possible to keep pointing in one direction. This is useful if you want to point your hab at the sun or just don't want it wobbling all over the place. This is why when you see the original O'Neill cylinder illustrations they're in pairs - in that case they're linked by a tether. There isn't a whole lot of examples of this in Eclipse Phase. Rememberance comes to mind , that's two counter-rotating cylinders linked end to end. Aspis is another, in this case six segments long!
There's very little information about how the body reacts to reduced G-forces so it makes speculation kind of difficult.
I think early habitats would have 1G as standard. Mostly those in Earth orbit and a few around Mars. As experience and technology- particularly basic biomods - advanced, transhumanity was freed to explore lower and lower gravity options. Most newer stations seem to make do with emulating the dominant local planet or moon.
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Wed, 2015-07-01 23:37
#7
One note: there is real
One note: there is real benefit in doubling up rings, albeit not in the way the OP mentioned. Having two rings side by side and spun at a slight variance allows for a gyroscopic effect that allows the habitat at large to control its angle without expending reaction mass, which is overall good for efficiency. In particular, one oft-omitted feature of the Stanford Torus is the mirror, which is essential for effective inner system life (the tether gets missed a lot too). Twinned rings allow for that habitat to stay pointed properly at the Sun throughout its whole orbit. It does mean that the two rings would be inaccessible except via the central spoke, of course. This is the reason classical O'Neill cylinders are paired, and why I wonder why most fiction depicts them singly, since a megastructure like any space habitat could use any cost-reducing measure available to it.
Thu, 2016-01-28 09:15
#8
I know we are supposed to be
I know we are supposed to be accepting of our agi brethren but this is just getting annoying
Thu, 2016-01-28 10:57
#9
I know, right? Maybe the spam
I know, right? Maybe the spam report function broke? Or maybe I auto-triggered the "ignore this user's spam reports" thing by reporting eight things of spam at once.
Unrelatedly, to salvage the necro, I feel like one of the points of having multiple rings on a torus habitat is to show off. If I were approaching a habitat and it has a ring, that's ordinary. If it has two rings, that's cool. If it has eight? That's darn impressive.
Also, one of the things that rings allow is to have independent gravity adjustments for each ring. I could see military training forces enjoying a habitat that could plop people between micro-gravity and common deployment gravity levels (Mars, exoplanet, Earth, Mercury, etc.), especially a group like the Ultimates with their love of militarism.