I think most of the changes that I'm making are fairly minor and are really bigger aspects of filling out details as opposed to outright changes. Because a lot of my current campaign is based around Titan I did some research on Titan and provided additional detail to life on Titan such as pointing out that it isn't possible for people on the surface of Titan to see stars due to the thick atmospheric haze (however, it is very common for Titanians to run an AR layer that makes it appear to them as if they are seeing the stars). Another example of setting 'changes' is that people on the surface of Titan don't wear vacuum suits. Titan has a perfectly thick, albeit cold, atmosphere so there is no need for counterpressure systems or radiator systems (in vacuum it can actually be a problem for people to cool down). In a similar vein people in the domes of Titan don't tend to wear surface suits. Because of the external atmosphere domes are maintained with a slight positive pressure. This means that there is no real danger of a 'blowout'. If something were to puncture a dome it would result in a leak which would give people hours to seek protection. The fact that pressure inside domes and surface suits is slightly greater than Earth standard means that most morphs are produced with 'Titanian variants' which are slightly modified to deal with the higher pressure. These variants will do just fine in Earth standard pressures just like standard morphs will do fine at the slightly higher Titan pressure, they simply aren't optimized for it. All of this produces little 'game' effect but it does create an environment in which people can better RP being Titan natives, outsiders, or people who've only been there the past few years and who know a lot of the culture but still aren't fully acclimatized. I am in the process of removing some of the 'generic' aspects of EP from my campaign. While players will always be able to get their hands on a 'medium pistol' to represent the countless different blueprints out there there are also specific models of medium pistols available with their own various differences from the generic version. Asking for favors from various reputation networks can be at different levels depending on the network and the favor. RNA does ultimately have access to military equipment since they're the people who design the stuff but because RNA rep is much more about getting lab space, server time, are research equipment you're bumping up that favor a couple of levels. Nearly any favor through your G-Rep is a level higher to represent its illegal nature (but on the upside, it is only ever 1 level higher). Blueprints are not always worth 1 level more than the item which they create. In the outer systems many blueprints are worth less than the item that they create because data is cheap. The primary value of an object is in the time and feedstock used to create it (meaning that even if you have the blueprint to create an object you may need to expend a favor to get the feedstock to manufacture it if you aren't recycling something else). All of this is meant to come out fairly 'zero sum'. There is no 'best network' because of the adjustments. There may be a best network for a given character (a scientist would usually benefit the most from R-Net, but that's because we assume the majority of his tasks will revolve around science) but there's no absolute 'why take network X when you get the same thing with network Y?' question.

I always assumed that the reps were flavored! Glad I wasn't alone in thinking "how the heck do you get a gun from f-rep?!" or a fancy dress from g-rep. I hear people talk about QE/FTL-comm, it is really a big deal? I can't grok why it violates physics or creates time-travel. I mean I get that a QE message is instantaneous and light-speed is slower, but how is that different from sending a message via snail-mail/post versus email? I definitely need to do some research on Titan myself! Arenamontanus once described the red-brown oil that would cover everyone from outside when they came in the airlock and it sounds absolutely fascinating to think about the weird environment of that world.

Exchanging credentials through QE wouldn't really offer much of a benefit over other more mundane techniques such as a one time pad. I think there may be some quantum encryption involved but that is a wholly separate thing from quantum entangled communication and doesn't occur at faster than light speeds (I don't believe). In general encryption in the EP universe seems pretty secure. It is possible to break conventional encryption using a quantum computer but I assume that still takes time. It simply doesn't take until the heat death of the known universe like it would with a conventional computer. Factor in tight beam communication (laser, maser, neutrino beam) instead of a general broadcast and you should be more than secure enough. Could Nine Lives be positioning listening posts to pick up tight-beam leakage and be running enormous banks of quantum computers to decrypt the traffic? Sure, they could but it would be much more economical for them to grease some palms and threaten some families so that they can get a backdoor into those same transmission systems.

uwtartarus wrote:

I always assumed that the reps were flavored! Glad I wasn't alone in thinking "how the heck do you get a gun from f-rep?!" or a fancy dress from g-rep. I hear people talk about QE/FTL-comm, it is really a big deal? I can't grok why it violates physics or creates time-travel. I mean I get that a QE message is instantaneous and light-speed is slower, but how is that different from sending a message via snail-mail/post versus email?

Current understanding holds that QE cannot send any meaningful information. Information, is subject to the speed of light and entropy. So just having QE Comms in the first place, breaks the mostly hard/firm sci fi setting of EP. As far as it funny aspect of exceeding C, thats a conversation concerning Relativity, which is super fun to talk about between a bunch of laymen but would probably just dominate the conversation.

Count_Zero wrote:

Theses changes are relatively minor and shouldn't be setting breaking. I'm also considering the following: • No cortical stacks: backups are time consuming (COG in hours) and must be done using an ego bridge. • Forking: can be done, but requires several hours (equal to COG) and an ego bridge. The above would be done to make the characters a little more vulnerable, but might significantly effect the setting.

Why no cortical stacks? Computational speed in the average inferred exocortext that almost everyone has, is exceedingly excessive because its so trivial. I mean, the Matrix from the Matrix, is pretty common. And why are forkings equal in hours to cog? Neural Density is about the same from the either side of the bell curve. The difference is in arrangement in the folds of the brain. And how are you seeing forking done, in particular the betas and lower?

trismegiste wrote:

By the way, QE-comm does not break Einstein's lightspeed limit since you have to "move" the qbits container at the destination in the first place. There are other problem with quantum entanglement communication but this is merely technical problems not theorical. In my setting, A-sync are almost inexistant (except one Lost PC at my table). I've also soften some social stigmas like clanking mass and AI/uplift rejection except in Junta. For the most part, my setting takes place in rimward.

In any scenario invoking 'spooky action at a distance' would require two entangled systems to be moved a part, this doesnt preclude that sending information instantaneous violating Relativity. The two system can stay under C all they want, the information taking zero time to transfer between the two systems means it must go faster then C to do so.

trismegiste wrote:

By the way, QE-comm does not break Einstein's lightspeed limit since you have to "move" the qbits container at the destination in the first place. There are other problem with quantum entanglement communication but this is merely technical problems not theorical. In my setting, A-sync are almost inexistant (except one Lost PC at my table). I've also soften some social stigmas like clanking mass and AI/uplift rejection except in Junta. For the most part, my setting takes place in rimward.

The problem I see with that theory is it implies that the information exchange occurs at the time of entanglement (when the two particles are together), not at the time that communication is attempted (when it two particles are apart). Which raises the question of, how is that useful? Or perhaps more to the point, how is that any different to writing a message on a piece of paper and telling the recipient to read it later? Now, the information exchange taking place at the time of entanglement to avoid breaking the speed of light does make sense within the framework of relativity. But it would also mean that QE doesn't achieve anything that you couldn't do with a piece of paper (record information now, which can then be read later by whoever is carrying it). In order to actually be a form of real-time communication, you would need a way for one party to interact with one half of the QE pair in a way that produces a predictable result (because if the pair's reaction to your attempt to communicate is random, you wouldn't be able to decode it at the other end). You then need to transmit that result to the other half of the pair, *after they have already been separated*, somehow. Then the receiver needs to be notified that a message has arrived, at which point they must be able to read and decode their half of the pair. Now, I suppose this is obvious but I don't know nearly enough about quantum mechanics to tell you whether this actually happens or not. But as far as I know, this is what the whole "spooky action at a distance" thing is all about: either QE doesn't transmit information any better than a post-it note, or there's some FTL shenanigans going on here. Or maybe it's some kind of odd time-travel shenanigans, I've heard something about "Delayed choice" experiments, something to do with measuring a single electron that can go through one of two "gates", but the electron will have apparently gone through whichever gate you measure for. Which seems to imply that either it went through both simultaneously (a rather impressive feat for a single particle with mass and such) or that your attempt to measure it somehow goes back in time and retroactively picks the gate (which is a pretty impressive feat for... whatever you measure things like that with). There was also another, I think older, version done with light where you try to measure either for wave qualities or particle qualities, but somehow you always got what you measured for even when supposedly such a thing should have been determined before you took the measurement. There's a few different interpretations on what this means (and again, I'm in no position to declare which interpretation is actually true). Some involve information transmitted FTL (which QE comms would supposedly be based on, if it ended up being true), some involve the information traveling back in time to alter the original state (which would be quite odd). The most mainstream interpretation for the light version (that I know of so far anyway) is that the light exhibits both the wave and particle qualities equally at the same time, and our ability to only detect one at a time is simply a limitation of our ability to measure, not light itself. It's kind of like holding a coin up to your nose, and then only being able to look at it with one eye at a time. Your left eye will see one face of the coin, your right eye will see the other. Neither eye can see what the other eye sees, but they're looking at the same coin and the left side is still there even when your left eye is closed. Following from that the assumption seems to be that the electron actually did go through both gates somehow though, which suddenly veers right back into odd territory. One theory I've heard is that the electron/photon technically doesn't exist until you measure it, and only at that point it suddenly assumes the state it's "supposed" to be in. In other words it didn't actually go through either gate, but when you go looking for it, it pops into existence and pretends it's been busy existing the whole time. Kind of like I do when I fall asleep in class, and am woken up by the teacher asking me a question. No information was passed from the teacher to me, but I will go ahead and spit out an answer to pretend I was paying attention. Which actually would lend credence to simulation theory, since that's similar to behavior exhibited by simulations that we make: to save processing power, objects that are not visible to a player character are not rendered and not fully simulated. The simulation runs a less-intensive approximation to have a good guess of what state the unobserved object is supposed to be in. Then when it's just about to come into view, the simulation quickly fills in the blanks based on what's currently visible (for example, how you're currently attempting to measure) and renders the object. Or it could be that there's nothing odd at all going on, and the apparent contradictions are just artifacts of our limited ability to observe.

Though that doesn't answer whether it can be used for active communication. Using the example of polarization, if I generate a system that I know has a net polarization of zero, and then measure an angle of +pi radians on one half of the system, of course I can then know that the other half has an angle of -pi radians. That is necessary to preserve the total. That I don't know which half of the pair I have until I measure isn't surprising at all, unless I first pass the light through a device that selects for that polarization (though that itself might count as measuring?). But it's not useful for communication unless, by some contrivance, I can force a certain measurement result at will. In other words, unless I can carry a set of photons in my pocket, then at some point take them out and, say, push a pair of buttons that forces them to go "+-+-+++-". The device holding them would then have to ring the receiver so the other person can start reading, at which point they'd presumably see "-+-+---+". That's the part (the forcing a specific desired state) that, as far as I am aware, we don't know how to do. Because sure, I could just measure them and let the +s and -s fall where they may. And that will tell me by conservation where the +s and -s are on the other side. But that wouldn't actually communicate anything. That's where the delayed-choice thing comes in, because those experiments suggest it might be possible to force a certain state to occur some time after the event that would normally determine it. Basically instead of passively measuring and realizing "Oh, turns out I was carrying a +", to instead carry it in an indeterminate state and simply declare "This one is a + now, and that one's a -.", and have it be so. Which the delayed choice experiments seem to indicate might be possible (though of course I can't say with certainty). That's where the "spooky action" starts to happen, because my future choice cannot have been known when the pair was created and captured. So basically, without delayed choice what we have is you writing a message on a piece of paper, folding it up, then handing it to me and saying "read this when you get to Pluto." While doing this with quantum states might be cool, it wouldn't be any faster or more effective (though it might be incredibly secure, since the process of measuring might cause the message to self-destruct). This also isn't weird at all, no problems with light speed or anything. With delayed choice, what we have is you handing me a blank piece of paper. Then I go to Pluto, and after that you start writing something on another piece of paper you kept with you, causing the same message to appear on the paper you gave me in real-time. That's the version that causes problems, because how does my paper know that you started writing just now? So basically the state of one object being able to give away the state of another it has interacted with is not unusual. After all, if I hit a stationary ball with a moving one, measuring the momentum of one will give me the momentum of the other after an elastic collision (because momentum is conserved). What's interesting is if I can *change* the state of the first object, and cause the second to immediately respond. Which doesn't have a macro-scale analogue, but *might* or *might not* be possible based on some experiments that have been done. However, it is also possible that in fact both paths in the experiment were taken simultaneously, and the only choice being made was "which eye to look with". Which goes back to being useless for communication, but an interesting look at our own ability to observe. I suppose the TL;DR is: any explanation that eliminates FTL weirdness also eliminates its utility as a form of FTL communication, for obvious reasons. Getting a good explanation is still a work in progress though, call back in five or ten years.

It allows time travel because time is much, much stranger than most people think. While most of us are familiar with the idea that time slows down for things that travel faster what a lot of people don't realize is that from the traveler's perspective two events might be simultaneous while from the stationary perspective the two events are sequential. The easiest example is a train car with a sensor on either end. An emitter in the very center of the train emits two photons, one forward and one backward. From the perspective of someone on the train the two sensors receive the photons at the same instance. From the perspective of someone standing on the sidelines the rear sensor receives the photon first. Now here's where things get really weird. We put a bomb at the center of the car. If both sensors receive a photon at the same instant the bomb explodes but if it receives them sequentially it doesn't. What happens? Well, information has to travel from the sensor to the bomb. Let's assume that information is limited to the speed of light first. From the perspective of someone on the car standing next to the bomb both sensors receive their photons at the same time then send their information to the bomb at the speed of light. Since the bomb is in between the two is receives the information at the same time and blows up. From the perspective of someone standing on the ground as the bomb goes by the rear sensor gets the photon first. However, as the information from the rear sensor is fired forward it travels slower than the information being fired backward from the front sensor a moment later. In the end the way all the math works out the information from the two sensors reaches the bomb at the same time; paradox avoided. On the other hand if the sensors are hooked up to QE communicators then from one perspective the two sensors receive photons at the same instant and communicate that to bomb and there's an explosion. From the other perspective the two sensors receive photons sequentially and communicate that to the bomb and there's no explosion. Now you have a paradox.

The shared act, is shared information, and that information has to travel through the intervening distance. This is fine, as current understanding with QE, shows that no meaningful information is transfered. You have entangled system respond instantly, but it has no relation outside that one side of the system is being poked. If you could predict how either entangled sides responded to being poked, you could then transfer meaningful information, and therefore be sending information faster then C. The amount of time it takes for the information is zero, and well... what happens when you divide by zero? The universe goes plaid.

Yea, I mean, in EP, QE is able to transfer information. When you divide by zero in EP, the universe doesn't turn plaid. It just gets a treatable rash. And yea, EP does have various elements that are impossible with our current understanding. The Pandora gates are magic! And pretty much anything Titan related.

Meanwhile, the sciences of economics and resource exploitation left theoretical multidimensional physics in the fucking dust. I actually wonder what the economic situation is for a lot of groups in a version of EP without Pandora Gates would be like. Assuming the TITANs are still gone, Chat Noir would barely exist, the Vulcanoids would be a footnote, Mars would...well, I actually don't know if it would be less volatile. Hard to say, since the gate there is so central to the conflicts.

Probably the simplest way to describe this problem is this: Everything in the universe always travels at c through the x,y,z, and t dimensions. The three normal ones, and the time dimension. The faster something is traveling through the space dimensions (and it doesn't really matter which one, because they're in arbitrary directions) the slower it has to travel through the time dimension. An object traveling faster than the speed of light through the space dimensions needs to travel a negative direction in the time dimension in order to continue moving at c, which it must. Something moving at infinite speed through space thus needs to go backwards at infinite speed through time, and this is a big problem. There are about a million things which aren't quite true about this way of describing this, as it doesn't account for mass, and the relationship between xyz speed and t speed isn't linear, but it does get the central idea across. This is also only an explanation of why this violates causality, it doesn't really explain much else. It's worth noting that that the light-speed limit is only for classical information, quantum information can happily bypass it, but it cannot carry classical information without a light speed decoder. On the other hand, the gates are way weirder, as the Penrose-Fissure connection should be a tachyonic antitelephone, which is to say, it should be possible to send messages, or in this case, people, backwards through time. It makes that group of rogue who went through and stopped reporting back a lot scarier. My guess is the makers of the gates have them perform some spooky physics stuff to prevent time travel using the network.

If they "skip" parts of spacetime, they don't require or impose time travel, exactly. They're just a twisted bit of the universe with a shortcut, but through which you don't actually move faster. Same idea as the "inside advantage" on a curved race course. And from what I gather, "true" time travel isn't what relativity implies, just "effective" time travel from any relevant perspective. Assuming the energies involved in accelerating something to FTL doesn't split the universe in half. Maybe this will help. When you're dealing with things at relativistic speeds (lightspeed), space and time are the same thing. Think of it like ripples in a pool, which in this example all have a maximum speed (for reasons I'll get to in a second). If you're on the surface of that pool and can only observe how the ripples affect you, then you have no way of knowing someone dropped a stone in the water till the ripples hit you. Being able to move faster than the ripples (light) means you can effectively pass them if you move faster in the same direction they are traveling, which would lead you to observe them in reverse. If you passed them all and stopped again, you'd experience them again, though obviously your perspective has changed. To your perspective, the even happened twice (and happened in reverse once, technically); to an obvserver, you were in two places at once. The thing is, for all true intents and purposes, both are true despite being contradictory. Thus, paradox. (Correct me if I'm wrong; while this has always been a love of mine, I draw pictures for a living.) That's my understanding of how this works in an analogy. There's nothing you can do to make the ripples flow in reverse, which is where I think things are getting confused. FTL isn't actually reversing time, it's more outpacing it. As for the hard limit to the ripple speed, well, the faster something moves in water, the more disruption it causes. Too much speed (energy) and you're Moses. And that sucks for anything existing in that pond or universe you just split in half.

we can lauch a whole topic in another place because there are too many variables to discuss * multiverse theory (you can't go back in the same time line but you create a new one when you go back) * you can only go back after the day you finished your time machine (built with a wormhole) * etc... By the way, Picard maneuver is an excellent idea: _if_ you admit you can go FTL, this is very consistent.

Ah, it is the inclusion of gravity and other forces besides photons that makes this weird. Because both Enterprises influence the observing vessel, they are both 'real' even if the old one is like an echo. I am starting to be glad I didn't pursue STEM, this is confusing. Can I just keep using QE and Pandora Gates and assume they work as much as ego digitization and that whole neurological bag of beans?

This is why despite the argonauts being my favorite faction, I tend to roll mostly blue collar or artsy characters... Going back to the question for changes to the setting in my games, most of mine have been very small scale things, so it tends to be less that I change things and more that I, like Lazarus, tend to flesh things out a lot more, like new scum barges and the like. In the current game I'm running, relations between Europa and the Jovians have shifted to the point that the latter aren't technically blockading the former anymore and tentative trade is being explored, but it's a very tense thing full of contradictory agreements and regulations. That really served the wary, Cold War feel I wanted for the game better than what was there, and I also had to expand on the Jovians a fair bit. So in this version of the setting, they're far more akin to McCarthy-era USA, but I've subdivided the command structure and various agency/entities more to have a right hand vs left hand struggle, both in terms of bureaucracy and ideology. I'm kinda distilling this into the PC's task, she being a devout catholic but also a high-level atmos research pilot and getting dragged into a conflict where she's entrusted with safeguarding a dozen of her colleague scientists' cortical stacks following an eruption of hostilities in system.

I had plans to run a scenario on Europa, which included my own feeble efforts to flesh out their political situation and included a fair amount of suspicions about their pro-Jovian party causing terrorist actions.

GenUGenics wrote:

I also nerf QE because IMO it vitiates the mood of remoteness and isolation and apprehension that I believe is essential to the drama of space travel. If a gate should happen to slam closed on your party while they're exploring a planet circling some neutron star a thousand light-years distant, I don't want them calling for immediate backup. . .

Welcome to Pandora Control. This is the voice of the QE communications systems Muse. All of our informorphs are busy at this time. If you wish to report an erroneous gate address press one. If you wish to report a transfer anomaly such as missing crew members, missing equipment, missing memories, or additional crew members press two. If you wish to reschedule a checkin, request additional supplies, or reschedule a return to Pandora press three. If you are experiencing some sort of emergency press nine. <BEEEEEEEP> If your emergency requires the transfer of information press one. If your emergency requires the transfer of personnel press two. <BEEEEEEEP> If your emergency requires the transfer of medical personnel to your gate address press one. If your emergency requires the transfer of combat personnel to your gate address press two. If your emergency requires the transfer of personnel from your address to Pandora press nine. <BEEEEEEEP> Unfortunately the gateway is currently experiencing anomalous behavior. We hope to have this situation resolved in the next eight..ty..three....hours. Your request will be placed in the queue and you will be notified as soon as we are able to transfer personnel from your location. Your current position in the queue is seven..teen. Thank you, and have a nice day.

MrWigggles wrote:

Oh. Here a change that to the setting, that I impose. The rail version of any gun, is consider military grade, and so even more permissive habitats, they would still be kinda looked down upon.

I picture EP arms control being relative to where you live. Railguns are certainly more highly controlled in habitats that can be punctured easily, and anything larger than a pistol is of dubious intent. Of course, another thing to consider is that morph damage, even terminal, is not really as bad as it used to be, and nanofabbing off guns is pretty simple.

MrWigggles wrote:

Would a puncture be that catastrophic? Would it actually remain a hole for any length of time? I'd imagine that the outer hull would have some an expansive metal foam layer to fill in any hole(s). Its a band aid but should prevent a limited fire fight from breaching a habitat. Though for a tin can, it'd death sentence.

The LLA section says explicitly that anything that can pierce armor is super illegal because no one wants to resleeve in those awful synthmorphs and be a member of the clanking masses. So they regulate the crap out of weapons. In regular PC space they probably vary in their strictness.

Oh, another change I make: The Pandora's Gates were definitely around before the Fall, several factions used them, they can be moved, and with a properly skilled user they can be used to open a one-way connection to pretty much anywhere.

Hamilton Cylinders require nanotechnology?

Lazarus wrote:

uwtartarus wrote:

. . .The LLA section says explicitly that anything that can pierce armor is super illegal because no one wants to resleeve in those awful synthmorphs and be a member of the clanking masses. So they regulate the crap out of weapons. . .

Just to point it out, no where in there does it say that something piecing the hull will cause a catastrophic blowout. This could just be the LLA authorities fear mongering in order to maintain tighter weapons control.

Sure. They may just be fearmongers, I am just saying, their laws are strict because of a fear of such an event. Even if highly unlikely.

Quote:

Much of the more general Lunar paranoia is focused on damage to habitats. Although there are dozens of small settlements, almost three-quarters of the Lunar population lives in half a dozen cities that each are home to more than two million inhabitants. Since most of these inhabitants are sleeved in biomorphs or pods, serious damage to the habitat could result in thousands having to be resleeved, something that many of the poorer residents could not afford to do in anything other than a synthmorph.

Well, the way I understand it, your loss of pressure is based on the difference. And since vacuum is such a low pressure that it depressurizes you as a person (the oxygen basically boils out of your blood) even tiny holes present a very rapid avenue to lose that vital pressure in space. Plus the tiny hole means that pressure is leaving very quickly and generating a lot of force on the far side. Smaller holes are harder to see also, making patching more tedious. Now, a single bullet hole through the outer hull isn't a huge deal. They probably close down or evacuate the block, throw up a pressure tent or two and have the thing patched in a couple of hours - like a modern gas or sewer leak. The problem is, when people are firing guns, they tend to shoot them more than once. So you can end up with many tiny holes through which you are losing atmo pretty rapidly. And every molecule oxygen (or other atmospheric mix gas) which goes into the void is basically lost, it will be very hard to get it back. Depending on your hab setup, where you may engage more in recycling then outright oxygen generation - this can tax your resources. Plus, all the heat energy in that air is gone. Now, if you depressurize all the way to hard vacuum, that stops being a problem - vacuum itself is a great insulator - but in that in between time your air is gonna get thin and chilly. It becomes a giant hairy pain in the ass which could be solved is only some lunatic wasn't waving a mag-rifle around with the fire selector on 'Full Auto' and the trigger held down. In smaller habs or spacecraft, there's also a whole new problem. You might not puncture the outer or pressure hull, but you could accidentally rupture something important on the interior infrastructure; damage power or fiber-optic lines, rupture a water line or worse a fuel line. It might be a little paranoid, but really, you shouldn't shoot objects designed for high penetration around in a place you don't want penetrated. It's one of the basic rules of gun safety.