I've seen a bit of talk about archetypes in these forums. I've also seen a bit in the Transhuman book.
The Transhuman book goes into great detail about the Hacker and Transporter archetypes.
Someone in these forums described the Eclipse Phase archetypes as Muscle, Hacker, Investigator, Socialite and Requisitions Officer.
So, if we were going to make a list it would read:
Muscle
Hacker
Investigator
Socialite
Requisitions Officer
Transporter
What do you all think each archetype on this list would do? What situations/events/roleplaying would they be needed for? What skills, attributes, traits and morphs would you prioritise if you were advising a player on an "archetype template" for each one? Is there some overlap, eg. is the Transporter just a variation of the Requisitions Officer?
Interested in these opinions as the archetypes in Shadowrun were extremely useful for building a party with specialisations that complimented each other and had very specific roles. Eclipse Phase doesn't have the same direction in that regard.
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Eclipse Phase Archetypes
Wed, 2015-06-03 08:59
#1
Eclipse Phase Archetypes
Wed, 2015-06-03 09:40
#2
the transporter i would say
the transporter i would say is a specialist. The transporter is all about how to do I get goods or people from point a to point b. this can involve everything from legal shipping companies, smuggling or an armored convoy. An RO is all about the acquisition. there job is not to get it point b from a but rather buying the goods and hiring the transporter :P
Wed, 2015-06-03 10:33
#3
Combining Archetypes
First of all, yes, you can combine archetypes. And a lot of archetypes have overlaps with each other that make them easy to combine.
For example, the Socialite and RO generally both benefit from good rep and high Networking skills. While their specialization is different when it's all said and done, they have enough in common that your RO can easily fill your Socialite's shoes and vice versa. In fact, most parties WILL combine these archetypes on a single player because it's so easy to do, and it frees up a player to better round-out the team by taking a different role.
Hacker and Socialite on the other hand don't combine easily, because they have much less in common and hackers tend to need to dump lots of points into Interfacing, Programming, and Infosec, meaning they won't have much left for all the various and sundry social skills a Socialite needs. It can be done, you can make a smooth-talking con man who "hacks" stuff mostly by sweet-talking people into handing over their password, but it'll be a lot of work.
Muscle tends to be a fairly CP-intensive role, mostly due to morph and equipment costs, but as long as they choose to specialize in one weapon type, two at most, they might have enough CP left over to dabble in other roles on the side. Of course, if you can get away with putting off the morph and equipment until your RO can get them for you in-game this frees up a lot of CP for character creation, but whether you can get away with that depends on your campaign and GM.
That said, that assessment isn't 100% ironclad because your "muscle" doesn't necessarily have to be Butch Deadlift. A drone jockey can bring a lot of firepower to the table with very efficient CP expenditure. Their skillset will often overlap with both Hacker (Interfacing, Infosec, Programming, for commanding and protecting the drones) and Transporter (Pilot, Gunnery, for controlling drones directly), allowing you to roll three archetypes into one character. Drones also tend to be cheap and easy to acquire in-game, especially if your character is a good enough hacker to steal hostile drones in combat.
Investigator is usually a flexible and very CP-cheap archetype, making it very easy to combine with just about anything else. This is mostly because there are myriad ways to investigate things, all of which are potentially useful. Your hacker can investigate things by doing Research to locate and hack into secret documents. Your Socialite/RO can chat up their contacts. Your Muscle probably has a high Perception for combat anyway, he can use his sharp eyes to look around. It's very easy to mix in a little Investigator with whatever else your character does, and very little reason not to. So everyone can be an Investigator on the side, no matter what their primary is.
Those are just some examples and I'm sure other people here can think of a lot more, especially if you find unconventional ways to fill certain roles. In general, most EP characters will fill at least two archetypes most of the time.
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End of line.
Wed, 2015-06-03 21:50
#4
I've heard about drone
I've heard about drone jockies in EP, but I havent seen any.
Thu, 2015-06-04 08:38
#5
Thanks R.O.S.S.
Okay, that's a lot of useful information there. Thank you. If I were to revise the list, I'd probably make it like this:
Core roles:
(These are the core roles essential for any party, a bit like the classic fighter/mage/cleric/thief composition of a D&D party)
1. Muscle
2. Hacker
3. Socialite
Ancilliary roles:
(These roles can be filled either by a mission specialist PC, if that's vital for the mission, or the socialite can use networking and rep to hire an NPC)
1. Investigator (a hacker, socialite or even muscle can fulfill most general investigation functions in different ways as mentioned in R.O.S.S.'s post. However, a dedicated investigator with a wide degree of investigation skills across different fields can be a real asset to a party).
2. Requisitions Officer (This role can be filled by the hacker, if they want to get stuff through hacking and hacker-related means, or by the socialite, if they want to acquire stuff through networks, rep, favours, etc. A dedicated specialist will be able to further enhance any gaps in the teams requisition capabilities).
3. Scientist (SCIENCE! is always useful, especially so in EP. Often they will have mission specific skills but a scientist with many fields is highly useful in an environment where you don't know what to expect, such as when you're gatecrashing)
4. Engineer/techie (having someone to repair your gear is never a bad thing. A hacker can fulfil this role if they have left over CP points to put into hardware skills.
5. Transporter (Originally I left this in the core roles because the write up in Transhuman does sell them as being exceptionally useful and often overlooked. In a pinch they can support muscle by jamming bots/drones, piloting support vehicles or as a battlefield scout too. Also, always good to have someone who can save you from spiralling off into space when you're working "outside". Plus they can pile a load of CP points into stealth and fulfill a shadowing/stalking investigator role. However, they're not as essential as the three core roles and so an NPC could easily fill this slot in a small roleplaying group).
Feel free to add comments, suggestions, make amendments, redactions, additions, etc.
Thu, 2015-06-04 09:22
#6
It's very easy to create EP
It's very easy to create EP characters who are competent in multiple fields, reducing the need for dedicated roles somewhat. Spend 95 points to get Kinetic Weapons up to 80, and another 95 points to get Infosec at 80, and you've spent less than half your Active Skills allotment on being an extremely competent gunfighter and hacker.
However, the way EP handles non-combat, non-hacking, non-Rep skills greatly rewards specialization; most skills in the system are written up as vague categories you can roll against for binary pass/fail results. There's little need to have two characters who focus on Persuasion, because when you get one roll against Persuasion, you need one character to have maxed out Persuasion and at most three other characters with just one point in it [i]if[/i] the GM allows team efforts on Persuasion. Otherwise you mostly need one character with as much Persuasion as possible, who suddenly steps forward every time someone needs to be Persuaded. Said character is probably also going to be wearing a Sylph with Enhanced Pheromones and have as much SAV as possible, making them the go-to person for [i]all[/i] the non-Rep social skills.
This likewise applies to other skill groups; someone to have all the Academics fields, a Menton, and all the COG-boosters they can get their hands on in case the GM ever calls for any Academics-rolls.
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@-rep +2
C-rep +1
Thu, 2015-06-04 10:26
#7
A word of caution
One skill does not make a role. To be truly effective in a role often requires multiple skills brought to a fairly high level, plus relevant equipment.
For example, a gunfighter doesn't just need Kinetics. They also need Fray for defense, some movement skills (Freerunning, Freefall, Flight, Climb, etc) to help them get around, Perception to locate targets, a solid combat morph and a good gun.
Similarly a Hacker needs more than just Infosec. They need Interfacing to use the computer, Programming to write scripts, install backdoors, and perform many other hacking actions (Infosec gets you in, Interfacing and Programming get things done). They're going to need a suite of hacking software, which ain't cheap, and some computer-based Knowledge skills. Research also helps the hacker, since often if you're breaking into a computer, you're probably looking for something on that computer.
Now, even with all that taken into account you do get enough points that most characters can still fill multiple roles fairly comfortably. Like I said, you can even expect that the vast majority of characters will have *at least* two roles. But be careful not to make the mistake of thinking "Oh, I'll just pick up Kinetics to be the muscle, Infosec to be the hacker, Networking: Hypercorps to be the RO, Persuasion to be the Face, Medicine: First Aid to be the Medic... I'm a one-man party!"
You have a party for a reason. You'll generally want to pick a set of closely-related roles to maximize synergy (Role 1 needs skills A, B, C, and D, Role 2 needs skills B, C, D, and F, you can easily and efficiently become very good at both roles), and talk to your party about how they're going to cover everything else.
Not trying to be harsh of course, it's just that it's very common for RPG players to try to do too much by themselves, and they often forget that they have a party to cover their weaknesses. Though of course, another common mistake is they don't take note of how they can cover for other party members, and so don't give others the help they need... but that's an entirely different topic.
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End of line.
Thu, 2015-06-04 11:50
#8
MrWigggles wrote:I've heard
I played an Exhuman-ish character that kept himself in forked ten times in a Portable Server carried by another character. From here, all ten were Wirehead eidolons, and five piloted/remote controlled each controlled a Guardian Angel, while the others did overwatch and hacking and the like.
Sadly, the few sessions he was involved in were VERY rules-light so I can't tell you how effective this build was in a more typical game.
In my defense I had just finished [i]Blindsight[/i].
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Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Thu, 2015-06-04 12:49
#9
R.O.S.S.-128 wrote:One skill
Similarly a Hacker needs more than just Infosec. They need Interfacing to use the computer, Programming to write scripts, install backdoors, and perform many other hacking actions (Infosec gets you in, Interfacing and Programming get things done). They're going to need a suite of hacking software, which ain't cheap, and some computer-based Knowledge skills. Research also helps the hacker, since often if you're breaking into a computer, you're probably looking for something on that computer.[/quote]
I'll concede on combat; adding Fray is fairly useful, as is Freerunning (I'd forgotten that despite its name, it's actually the skill for, among other things, jumping). I didn't really consider Free Fall necessary because either you're in a place where you don't need it, or you'd need it even if you weren't in combat, making it not a [i]combat[/i]-relevant skill as such.
However, for hacking, I'm less sure that you need more than Infosec. By my reading, most things you do on a hacked network are done with the Infosec skill, as is the actual hacking itself (though I see now that the wording can also be taken to mean that you need to make an Infosec roll to be allowed to make the Interfacing roll to give orders to a robot, rather than using the Infosec roll to give the order despite not having the permissions, which would make Interfacing rather useful). However, Programming has really only two uses; creating backdoors and creating scripts, which are of somewhat niche utility. Even moreso, a computer-based Knowledge skill doesn't actually do anything in the basic game.
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@-rep +2
C-rep +1
Thu, 2015-06-04 12:52
#10
Comp sci skills ought to
Comp sci skills ought to provide a complementary skill bonus.
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Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Thu, 2015-06-04 13:12
#11
uwtartarus wrote:Comp sci
The academic field of Computer Science is in many ways far removed from the practical use of software. The complementary skill rules is also firmly in the territory of GM fiat, so making generalizations about its use will be difficult without a standardized way of interpreting the rules.
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@-rep +2
C-rep +1
Fri, 2015-06-05 00:22
#12
LatwPIAT wrote:uwtartarus
For using software as designed, i.e. interfacing, perhaps computer science is a little divorced from everyday use, but even power users who aren't coders can take advantage of understanding the architectures to milk a little more performance or get what they want a little quicker. Programming and infosec, however, are crucially based on computer science backgrounds, as I can speak for from first-hand experiences. You can't exploit a system to its fullest if you don't know at least a little about how it works.
Fri, 2015-06-05 08:17
#13
Hackers should have computer skills
Even if your GM isn't going to allow computer science and related skills to provide a complimentary skill bonus, it makes sense for a hacker character to have a bunch of complimentary skills and arguably vital skills like interfacing and programming. Not only because it's unlikely that someone else in your team is going to prioritise those skills at such a high level, but because people don't tend to become exceptional hackers without knowledge of interfacing, programming and computer science IRL. Not to mention that people who excel at something tend to do it because they enjoy it, so they'd likely have a thirst for all those complimentary and related skills anyway.
If you had more than one hacker in your party, you could have each one with a very intense specialisation - one in infosec/interfacing, one in programming/computer science. The idea being the programmer understands how best to exploit a system with malware and such, and the infosec'er knows how to silently get into a system and deploy the malware the programmer has created.
However, unless the mission is very specific (like an all-hacker mission) then it seems like a waste of a party roster slot to me.
Fri, 2015-06-05 10:51
#14
Just for fun.
I wouldn't allow CompSci to give a bonus because it's required knowledge.
On the other hand, I would allow it to reduce penalties from using non-standard equipment though, such as outdated equipment or systems created by Exhumans.
—
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few.
But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
Fri, 2015-06-05 11:53
#15
The EP skill system is
The EP skill system is somewhat bizarre in how you can have 80 in Academics: Cryptography and default your Academics: Mathematics, so it's entirely legal by the rules to have no formal knowledge of Computer Science and still be competent in programming, software engineering, and applied information-security. This muddles the concept of complementary skills somewhat, since it follows "logically" that someone with Academics: Mathematics 80 and Academics: Cryptography should be better at cracking codes than someone who only knows Cryptography, even though the knowledge of mathematics really should be a prerequisite for cryptography.
I guess what I'm saying is that we should use GURPS's skill system instead. :V
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@-rep +2
C-rep +1
Fri, 2015-06-05 13:05
#16
I have considered letting
I have considered letting players get complementary bonuses while defaulting if they have a relevant Active skill. Free Fall for Academics: Orbital Mechanics for instance, since even if they haven't taken a single class on it, they can sort of guess if they have a high Free Fall.
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Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Fri, 2015-06-05 17:34
#17
Well, I think one way to look
Well, I think one way to look at it from the skills angle, not so much the roles angle, is that even in EP, you have three big broad avenues/approaches/attitudes: Physical, Mental, Social.
Physical is your actual actions in the world, interacting with the environment. Your movement and combat skills mostly.
Social is whenever you interact with another person.
Mental is Non-interactive knowledge skills, mental actions and typically computerized interactions.
Aptitudes can be broken down this way (even if technically, all Ego aptitudes are based on your brainprint). COG and INT are very mentally linked. SAV and WIL are socially linked (I say this because SAV and WIL are usually the two stats you draw on to oppose social rolls) and COO, REF and SOM are physically linked.
Now, with skill points, morph and equipment bonuses, you can kind of mix and match which you draw from, but in general, if you focus on one, you will be good at anything linked to that. IE, if you have a high COG, you can get a leg up to utilize multiple COG based skills (which includes hacking). If you have a good SOM, you're better placed for running and jumping and also punching people. Basically all the social skills default to SAV, so if you want to be a social character, boosting your SAV is just saving you skill points.
From that kind of Physical/Mental/Social triangle, you can further specify and specialize in what exactly you do. A mechanic and a hacker are both Mental types of characters, but use entirely different skill pools. However, you can easily combine them and have one Mental-y guy. In archetypal terms, this would be Face/Muscle/Brain. And then you're just generating further subsets. Your Face might be a lying liar who lies, or might be more of that femme fatal temptress. Your muscle might be a street samurai or might be a gunlugger. Your brain can hack that gibson, or they might stack in deep the Hardware skills and physically "hack" that door.
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H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog
http://ephrep.blogspot.com/
Mon, 2015-06-08 11:11
#18
To expand...
See, I parse this by saying that Academics: Cryptography already contains all the knowledge that Academics: Mathematics does which applies to cryptography, along with knowledge about cryptography software and history and so on.
Academics: Mathematics lacks that extra knowledge, but contains knowledge on other topics instead.
Having both therefore doesn't "usually" give a bonus, because for the majority of the time they overlap - which is also why I'd allow them to default to each other.
—
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few.
But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
Tue, 2015-06-09 08:56
#19
I like the face/muscle/brain divide
I like the distinction you're making there, UnitOmega. It's a better way of classifying the archetypes than my hacker/muscle/socialitte distinction.
So the three main divisions are:
1. Muscle (Prioritised attributes: COO, REF, SOM)
2. Face (Prioritised attributes: SAV, WILL)
3. Brain (Prioritised attributes: COG, INT)
Further subdivisions will be based around skills rather than attributes:
Your brain could specialise in infosec, interfacing, etc. to be a hacker; or xenobiology, xenoarcheology etc. to be a gatecrashing scientist.
Your muscle could be your transporter, using bot jamming/remote controlling to bring the muscle to the field, or they could be a weapons specialist sleeved in a reaper.
Your face could be an infomorph broker with tons of cp points dumped into rep networks, or a Sylph with loads of persuasion and deception modifiers.