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Flats during the Fall

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dizzyrosecal dizzyrosecal's picture
Flats during the Fall
I have been reading some of the lifepath stuff in the Transhuman book and it got me thinking about starting my campaign during the Fall so that the players could roleplay these life events as the first chapter in an Eclipse Phase campaign. However, this got me thinking, most morphs that are in the Morph Recognition Guide had either not been created yet or were extremely rare. Given that many resleevings have occurred as a result of mankind having a close brush with an ELE, I figured that most pre-Fall human beings had probably never resleeved. What this means, to my mind, is that flats would be the most common morph in the pre-fall era. However, although resleeving would not be as common at this stage, various forms of augmentation and implants probably would. It doesn't seem unlikely that many people in developed nations would want to augment their original body with basic biomods so that they can return to a youthful state and no longer age, have enhanced resistance to disease, require less sleep, etc. I also imagine that ectos would be more common that mesh inserts too. That splicers are a relatively new development that the population at large hasn't embraced just yet and that other, more advanced morphs like Exalts, Olympians, etc. are very rare. I would also imagine that non-human biomorphs, synthmorphs and pods are almost never used by the vast majority of humanity, even those who do embrace resleeving technology. So, what do the forums think? Should I be restricting most players to flats and then letting them purchase augmentations instead of having them sleeve in splicers or other morphs? It would be nice if the next Eclipse Phase release, after Firewall, could be a guide to the pre-Fall Earth and what other colonies exist in the Solar system at this stage, as well as a guide to running campaigns during the Fall itself. I think that'd be a fantastic book! It would also be able to state what morphs are available and their frequency of use during the pre-Fall era and during the Fall itself.
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
Pretty sure the setting
Pretty sure the setting background gave AF-1 and -2 being splicers dominant in the population, at least in the developed territories. my impression is that earth was still more bioconservitive than the LAA when it came to morph design leading to a lack of the more exotic morphs.
jKaiser jKaiser's picture
Flats were common on Earth
Flats were common on Earth compared to elsewhere, but there were plenty of current morphs around back then too. Ten years isn't very long for R&D, especially for a product that takes months or years to design, grow, test, and refine. Synthmorphs and pods would be around almost as-is, perhaps minus the Shaper for pods and any of the gatecrashing synthmorphs, the Steel and Galatea. And...thinking on it, you'd probably see proportionately more combat synthmorphs than you do today, especially compared to every-day synthmorphs. A lot of those would fall to the TITANs, so you probably saw plenty of very robust combat designs go extinct during that period. As for what non-flat and -splicer morphs were around? Sylphs, exalts, olympians, bouncers, hibernoids, mentons, furies especially, the uplift morphs, rusters, and so on would be running all over the place pre-Fall, at least long enough for one generation to be old enough to be able to give birth to the current generation of people who are born in those morphs (MRG for the Hibernoid for example, or all background tables in Transhuman for starting morph-by-origin). Obviously furies are probably the exception to that, more out of common sense than any impossibility, since that would be an x-risk come their first pre teen breakup, heh. The proportions are skewed, sure, and by strict number most of the world is still in either flats or "splicers" made so after the fact, which I'm counting as not-flats for sake of simplicity. Looking at the timeline, you've got 40-60 years that genefixing's been around, which is enough for 2-3 generations or so by the time the Fall hit. So the population of Earth at least in something other than baseline flats, whether through genefixing, resleeve, or being born that way...eh, depends on how optimistic/cynical you want to be, but probably closing in on two, two and a half billion, mostly in the developed countries. Maybe more, but I'm assuming access to better morphs indicates access to better assets in other ways, so those populations would be better equipped to survive/escape body-intact.
UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
Well, based on the lifepath
Well, based on the lifepath percentages in Transhuman, Splicers are slightly more likely than Flats to survive the Fall, at least. Basically, it depends where you are. If your country had any kind of cash to spend on genetic screening, they'll offer it. And they'll want to do it because Splicers are just better. Similarly, I imagine lots of non-profits going to poorer countries for free genefixes. So unless your players are really old or you're forcing them to be really poor, they should be able to have Splicers, though you might sub out the Mesh Inserts for an Ecto given that yes, those wouldn't be as common (though since there's a cost different, I'd let them upgrade for free if you continue to play in the AF period). Heavy Augmentation actually was not that common on Earth, to my understanding, except in smaller circles. The hyperelite pushed a lot of boundaries, but most folks could not afford the extremism of modification. More Cyberware than Bioware (and some Nanoware might not exist yet), similar to how the Jovians approach augmentation. That being said, the morph pool isn't extremely limited (well, I suppose that's relative). They should be able to pick any morph listed in a Starting category in Transhuman.
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ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
I disagree on hibernoids and
I disagree on hibernoids and bouncers being remotely common on earth. bouncers do not do well when approaching normal gravity and i do not see hibernoids getting much shore leave. Mentons are probly on existent in or near R&D facilities
jKaiser jKaiser's picture
I was lumping Earth Orbit in
I was lumping Earth Orbit in there and talking (imprecisely, I admit) about the system and morph availability as a whole. You're right, bouncers would be uncomfortable on Earth itself, though hibernoids would be present, as the core book mentions, in the extreme never-stop lifestyle clades.
macd21 macd21's picture
For my own view of pre-Fall
For my own view of pre-Fall Earth, I'd say that flats made up about 90% of the population in the more wealthy countries, even more in poorer countries. Just because the technology exists doesn't mean it would be widespread. I think most wouldn't be able to afford it. Based on the description of pre-Fall Earth in the corebook, it doesn't strike me as the kind of place where the teeming masses had access to the latest in genetic engineering and other augments. That would be reserved for the elites and their henchmen, living in their gated communities and striving to keep the hordes of flats at bay.
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
Well the problem with that
Well the problem with that mac is that their would be riots and wars left right and center because humanity is very twitchy on the subject of eugenics and the only way around that i see its public accessibility of splicers.
ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
I would say that Splicers
I would say that Splicers would be the most common. By the time of the Fall, even if most people weren't resleeved even once yet, most people would have, a generation or possibly two ago, had gene-tweaks that raised them to Splicer standard, and their kids would have inherited those gene-tweaks, both naturally and from in-vivo and in-vitro prenatal care. Only in absolute third-world shitholes would Flats have outnumbered Splicers.
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dizzyrosecal dizzyrosecal's picture
There's a section in the
There's a section in the Gatecrashing book where a woman who claims to have been born in 1987 says that she never resleeved. If she never resleeved, yet was so old then is she an extreme bioconservative? Her words don't seem to suggest that. Or could it be the case that she simply augmented her flat over time to turn it, mechanically, into a splicer?
ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
dizzyrosecal wrote:There's a
dizzyrosecal wrote:
There's a section in the Gatecrashing book where a woman who claims to have been born in 1987 says that she never resleeved. If she never resleeved, yet was so old then is she an extreme bioconservative? Her words don't seem to suggest that. Or could it be the case that she simply augmented her flat over time to turn it, mechanically, into a splicer?
You can't actually turn a Flat into a Splicer. Aptitude maximums will remain the same, and the Flat will have the lack of the aptitude bonus. You can go all the rest of the way, though, basic biomods, mesh inserts, etc, are all available a augs.
Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name. [url=http://tinyurl.com/mfcapss]My EP Character Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/lbpsb93]Thread for my Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/obu5adp]The Five Orange Pips[/url]
macd21 macd21's picture
ORCACommander wrote:Well the
ORCACommander wrote:
Well the problem with that mac is that their would be riots and wars left right and center because humanity is very twitchy on the subject of eugenics and the only way around that i see its public accessibility of splicers.
And there were riots and wars left, right and centre, though not so much due to eugenics - that would have been a minor issue compared to the huge problems Earth was going through in the decades prior to the Fall. It would not be a matter of outright refusing splicing to the masses, so much as cost. Most people wouldn't have been able to afford a new body or genetic tweaking (assuming they even wanted it - I imagine opposition to such things would have been a lot more common before the Fall). "A Time of Eclipse" portrays a world in which the rich got richer and the poor got poorer - "...the privileged elites continued to prosper. Longevity treatments expanded lifespans - for those who could afford it. Major crackdowns swept up off-brand pharma and bootleg procedures by pioneering biochemists, even while worldwide life expectancies dropped for the first time in decades. Why extend the lives of so many poor people..." To me, this sounds like transhumanism was not at all common on pre-Fall Earth. The divide between the rich and everyone else would be even greater than it is now, with the result that flats would be the vast majority of humanity, even in the wealthier countries.
FrivolousVector FrivolousVector's picture
Actually, in this case I
Actually, in this case I would consider morphs to be "upgrade packages" to flats instead of new morphs. The vast majority of people haven't resleeved, but "reasonable" augmentation would be common. This would be genefixes, yes, but there could also be invasive procedures using them there newfangled healing vats to convert a flat or splicer into one of the "upgraded" humans. It's a thorny can o' worms for later games, but honestly I think it comes down to "resleeving is more cost effective than morph conversion" and that's the big reason why people don't do it anymore. Not that it's impossible, but because it's simply more difficult than just growing a new body from the get-go. You'll also have the opportunity to work in some manufacturing defects in newer morphs as some implants are still in "trial runs". This is transhumanity without the benefit of 10 years (conventional) experience (I'd count it as 30+ years, subjective). Most non-nano gear would be available, but it's not cleared clinical trials.
Sudo drop your weapon.
jKaiser jKaiser's picture
As written in the books, I
As written in the books, I think gene therapy and modification into splicer-analogues was very common in the developed nations, really contingent on when nanotech like healing vats became widespread. Resleeving for reasons other than body death or massive trauma, egocasting, or belonging to clades like the hyper privileged, extreme workers or sports, or the proto-scum wasprobably very rarely done. ShadowDragon's right that you can't turn a morph into another morph per RAW, but basic biomods and nanomedical tech accounts for most of the immortality humans had reached anyway. Even 10AF most people resleeve very rarely and only when necessary, with similar reasons to the above. The books skew perception, though, because they focus on what's different rather than what's the same, but resleeving frequently is still an eccentric or extreme thing to most people. Besides, that lady in gatecrashing was implied to be a TITAN upload thrown through a pandora gate. Her memories areprobably properly screwed up.
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
Mac i did not mean riots over
Mac i did not mean riots over economic access but rather the morality or ethicality of it
jKaiser jKaiser's picture
If you announce a longevity
If you announce a longevity/immortality drug, people will die because of it. Because no matter how well-meaning and humanitarian you are, something somewhere along the line is going to go wrong, and people will get angry. Look at the anger you see at disaster relief groups and government every time there's a major disaster. And that's over an impetus that no one can control. Imagine hearing that people can live forever and seeing people in media who have access to this -- not necessarily even the elites: like any pioneers, the first rounders will be celebrities by default -- while people around you are still suffering average death rates or worse, and will continue to do so at that rate or worse for every minute that the treatment's not yet physically arrived or distributed. Imagine the eruption when someone dies in line for the treatment. Or the political controversy when some dictator does what dictators do. Or when the inevitable flaws in the early rounds of the treatment happen. This is a game changer like our species has never seen, with faces attached to it. It's a lot harder to hate a hurricane or earthquake than it is to hate inevitably-flawed people. And it doesn't take much for people who are excited, desperate, and scared to do something stupid. And that describes everyone in that situation, haves and have nots, just because it's redefining what it means to be human. And then that first immortal will die from violence or accident, and the fire will spread. Well, fuck. Now I need to go play with a puppy or something.
FNR FNR's picture
I'd say in the year before
I'd say in the year before the Fall the mix of Splicers and Falts was about 50:50 in industrial developed countries. And those that didn't have Splicers were genefixed (had basic biomods). It is a great way for a government to reduce health care costs to get bbms for most of your population. Also I'd say that about one generation before the Fall getting a spliced child was common even in middle calss families. So during the Fall most young adults were born Splicers. But in older generations (biomodded) Flats were still dominating. Other morphs were uncommon but existed. All Synths and Pods were almost exclusively inhabited by AIs. The upper class had access to more exotic morphs (Exalts, Olympians, Sylphs). Bouncers and Hibernoids were common among people living in space. Most military personal had access to Furies. Normal people living in synthetic or pod morphs only became a thing after the Fall since bodies were scarce. Splicers are now the standard biomorph since a) people from rich countries who had at least some money had a higher chance of escaping with their bodies intact and b) the Splicer is now the standard biomorph that is getting produced. Flats are only 'produced' by natural reproduction. And even when the parents are Flats, they likely try to get their child upgraded to a Splicer
FrivolousVector FrivolousVector's picture
^ Agreed
^ Agreed This does lead to an interesting thought question. Most professional athletes are athletes because of very high performing physical attributes and high skills. You also hear of those people who have access to higher levels of performance than your average human because of genetic anomalies, etc. Would those count as Olympians by default?
Sudo drop your weapon.
FNR FNR's picture
I wouldn't mix up genetic
I wouldn't mix up genetic anomalies and morphs. Someone with a mutation that makes the person perform better in one area probably has the Exceptional Aptitude trait. I think the years before the Fall were a bit like in the movie GATACA. Rich parents could get tailor-made children. "I want my child to win the olymic games!" -> Olympian "I want my child to win the Nobel Price!" -> Menton ... The only reason this didn't lead to uprisings was, the basic human 2.0 (the Splicer) was available to most people.
macd21 macd21's picture
ORCACommander wrote:Mac i did
ORCACommander wrote:
Mac i did not mean riots over economic access but rather the morality or ethicality of it
Oh I got that, I just don't think riots over the morality of it would be particularly important compared to the riots over workers right, unemployment, abuses of power by the government and access to things like food and water. Based on the description of pre-Fall Earth given in the core, I think living conditions for most people were much, much worse than they are in the early 21st century. Which is why I don't think all that many people would be splicers.
jKaiser jKaiser's picture
Keep in mind that the history
Keep in mind that the history we get is written in-character from a very angry autonomist. It's not exactly a researched primary source-based recounting,and is by someone who has a very vested interest in demonizing the old ways.
macd21 macd21's picture
jKaiser wrote:Keep in mind
jKaiser wrote:
Keep in mind that the history we get is written in-character from a very angry autonomist. It's not exactly a researched primary source-based recounting,and is by someone who has a very vested interest in demonizing the old ways.
True. Do we have any other descriptions of pre-Fall Earth (I don't have all the books yet, so there's probably something I missed)?
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
Sunward touched upon it of
Sunward touched upon it of course but it didn't really cover prefall. And mac I disagree with your idea that things could be worse than early 1900's. people may tolerate their standard of living being stagnant but they sure as hell will not let it get any worse.
jKaiser jKaiser's picture
I have to disagree somewhat
I have to disagree somewhat too, at least in the sense that low standard of living means no splicing. Tech level is independent of, though closely related to, standard of living. There would be wars and pockets of absolute hell, since a lot of wars would be fought in crowded, over populated areas over resources, by definition because those areas have the worse infrastructure to provide those resources. But standard of living? That's very hard to quantify like that. Information pollination and the sheer speed at which we're developing infrastructure means that in all likelihood, those areas have a higher standard of living in general than we do today. Medicine continues to advance and genetic engineering would address a lot of food problems. All the SoL-improving tech would be available, the question is the level of true saturation (even in war torn places in Africa have trickles of very modern tech, even if that's often sadly the weapons tech or just grassroots level modern farming efforts) and the means to fuel that tech, whether that means local skill level, petroleum or other power, or whatever. The question is really about those essentials. Food, water, employment, and security. You can have those without easy access to splicing, and the reverse is also true. An area could be 100% splicer, but if the water source is ruined, they're still in trouble. Look no farther than the clanking masses in their airless, irradiated ghettos outside the hab. They don't even need two of those essentials, but no one's envying their lives. Also, again, we have a canon 40-60 years for this tech to spread before the fall. Look at how fast the internet spread in half that time. And the internet facilitates even faster tech pollination. And consider the sheer demand. The megacorps fronting splicing, nanotech, and genefixing in general would be racing to get this out as fast as possible to as many people as possible, since they can basically name their own price and with areospace and off-planet corporate efforts ramping up, everyone knows what way the wind is blowing.
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
Though there was mention of
Though there was mention of how national governments sought to curtail the transhumanism parts (part of why the Hypercorps expanded to space, no laws against splicers, bouncers, hibernoids, etc. in space).
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
macd21 macd21's picture
ORCACommander wrote:Sunward
ORCACommander wrote:
Sunward touched upon it of course but it didn't really cover prefall. And mac I disagree with your idea that things could be worse than early 1900's. people may tolerate their standard of living being stagnant but they sure as hell will not let it get any worse.
I didn't say early 1900's, I said early 21st century (now). And of course the standard of living can get worse. High unemployment caused by increased automation of labour (not just in manufacturing, but also services, as more and more services are performed by simple AI), stretched resources, climate change. You're out of work (or making minimum wage), can't afford medical insurance, can barely afford the ever-more-expensive food you need to stay alive. Meanwhile the powers that be take ever more drastic measures 'for the public good,' the police become ever more militarised (we know they had armed drones cutting down protesters), civil liberties increasingly curtailed. And of course the people will rise up and fight against all this, causing more disruption and damage, and sometimes they'll win and set up a new government that will end up facing the exact same problems... The description of pre-fall Earth that we have is one of a dystopian cyber-punk future. Whether you agree that it is a realistic future is, I think, fairly irrelevant - it's the 'past' of the setting that has been given to us.
Lazarus Lazarus's picture
Timeline
It's actually spelled out fairly well in Eclipse Phase. True 'Morphs' came about between 20 BF and 0 BF (when the uploading and digital emulation of memory and consciousness became available), but you clearly had people who were 'splicers' and various other morph-types before that. Genetic enhancements, gene therapies (for longevity), and cybernetic implants became available to the wealthy and powerful during the period of 60 BF to 40 BF. By the time you reach 40 BF to 20 BF you are dealing with development of the first transhuman species. To put that in perspective we can say that transhuman species started showing up roughly 30 years before the fall. When you consider that 20 years ago almost no one had cell phones and you compare and contrast the cell phones of 20 years ago with the cell phones of today and I would guess that by the Fall probably a substantial portion of the wealthier countries were probably what we would term as 'Splicers' (they might not have been full morphs with cortical stacks and resleeving, but statwise you might as well treat them as Splicers). The 1% were probably running around in bodies very comparable to Exalts with some people (movie stars, professional athletes, etc.) running around in proto-Olympians and proto-Ariels. That isn't to say that everyone would have been running around in Splicers or better. The majority of the world probably were flats. I'm just saying that in the wealthier parts of the world seeing proto-Splicers probably wasn't much more unusual than seeing someone with a nice car.
My artificially intelligent spaceship is psychic. Your argument it invalid.