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Hive Mind PCs

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Decivre Decivre's picture
Hive Mind PCs
So I was reading the Eclipse Phase facebook profile's mention of collective minds, and it got me to wondering: if you can merge forks that have been separated for an excess of a week (to which the game considers you the most separate form of a mind that there can be, and there are no further penalties for merging), wouldn't merging two completely different minds essentially render a similar effect? Let's go with a theoretical character we'll call Legion (as if this pans out well, that's the name my hive mind will have). Legion's key skill is psychosurgery, which he uses to take other people's forks (alpha, beta, delta, whatever... he isn't picky) and merge them with his consciousness. Now the real question is what this entails for his character's development. There are no real cohesive rules on how to merge minds, no matter how long they have been separated. All we know is that there will be "memory loss". What are the direct mechanical effects that this will have on the character? Even if you were merging the minds of two long-lost forks of the same person, what would be the outcome if, say, one of them spent the while that they were separated learning to be an implant surgeon, while the other mastered the Japanese language? How much of each skill would the final being retain? It could really be an interesting concept for a character. The effects of merging could even be a double-edged sword, having both detrimental and positive effects. For instance, while this collective mind could theoretically learn skills simply by merging with minds that have said skills, the lack of a truly cohesive mind may make it near impossible for him to really focus on learning anything the classical way. He may never gain rez anymore, essentially forcing him to resort to merging with more minds to develop himself. The other more obvious problem would be the potential for multiple personality disorder, as each of the subsumed minds manifests on occasion, until they are actually absorbed into the collective consciousness. Essentially this could be represented as the stress, derangements and disorders that the merging causes always results in various personality quirks, which heal through therapy or over time as the personalities actually merge permanently. In fact, maybe that provides the motive for which he has to merge with others. Maybe the original personality deals with issues of loneliness, for which normal companionship simply doesn't suffice. Maybe he [i]likes[/i] having multiple personalities, and the gradual merging of the personalities into one manifests as a sort of "hunger" for merging with someone else. Legion grows despondent as he goes from many to one, and he begins looking for a means to become many again. When he gets truly desperate, he may even stop going for willing minds and forcibly merge with others, as a means to sate his desire for comrades-in-mind. However, this doesn't necessarily mean he has to be a negative being for the other players. Thanks to the modern advent of forking, his craving never need to necessarily consume another. He might ask for a person's backup as payment for services rendered, or even cash in favors to get more minds. Perhaps he even runs a backup center as a means of both making a living and supporting his hunger, never letting anyone know what he does with copies of their minds on the side (or maybe he does, and he gives discounts to those who agree... maybe even keeping their backups for free). So, what does everyone else think? How should such a character work in the EP mechanics?
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nick012000 nick012000's picture
Re: Hive Mind PCs
Hmm. While there don't seem to be any hard and fast rules for fusing multiple minds into one body, it should be easy enough to do the other sort of hive mind, with one mind in many bodies. Just buy multiple morphs with Multitasking Implants and Mnemonic Implants, run Tactical Networking software, and regularly send forks between your morphs to keep yourself and synchronized. You might also want to consider buying a bunch of bots and Jamming them, using the extra mental actions to do so. One of the other PCs in my game is doing so.

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King Shere King Shere's picture
Re: Hive Mind PCs
As you most likely noticed, I have suggested several "entities" that are exploring the concept- of A entity formed from multiple egos. From "democracy" petals to mind eaters. Since the "legion" example are using Psycosurgey for its merging method, I would be using the psycosurgery section of the rules To determine the needed roles for the task. I would use "memory editing" & "Personality editing" copying them as templates. Perhaps the "new" procedure can be called "psyco-weaving": Weaving & twisting egos to become one. Though totally different, conceptually reminiscent of threads twisted into Twine, or making fabric weaving warp & weaft. [b]Psyco weaving,[/b] Merging two (or multiple) egos. Regardless if they are distinct, different or otherwise. [b][i]Time frame[/i][/b] 2 weeks [b][i]Pm[/i][/b] -30 [b][i]SV[/i][/b] (1d10%2, round up)%3
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: Hive Mind PCs
nick012000 wrote:
Hmm. While there don't seem to be any hard and fast rules for fusing multiple minds into one body, it should be easy enough to do the other sort of hive mind, with one mind in many bodies. Just buy multiple morphs with Multitasking Implants and Mnemonic Implants, run Tactical Networking software, and regularly send forks between your morphs to keep yourself and synchronized. You might also want to consider buying a bunch of bots and Jamming them, using the extra mental actions to do so. One of the other PCs in my game is doing so.
True, but I don't find that to be nearly as appealing. I am drawn to the idea of the "man of many minds". The classic biblical quote ("My name is Legion, for we are many.") inspires me, with an idea that I think would work as either a protagonist or antagonist (perhaps even both at the same time, as both a good and evil personality wrestle for control of the greater consciousness). Besides, I already have a player pulling off that sort of hive mind, albeit in a different way. The group's nickname for his character is "Voltron", as he collects flexbots and merges them together into his now modestly large synthmorph shell (he's got 4 already, he just needs one more to FORM THE HEAD!). It's an enjoyable concept, but I think the other variety of hive mind is much more interesting to me, as I think the roleplay possibilities are both interesting and downright hilarious.
King Shere wrote:
As you most likely noticed, i have suggested several "entities" that are exploring the concept- of multiple egos merged. From "democracy" petals to mind eaters. As the example are using Psycosurgey as a method of Ego merging Looking systemwise, I notice that most of the "extensive" psycosurgery procedures take 1 week (at least). I would use "memory editing" & "personality editing" as the template for the new "psyco-weaving" method & using their higher modifiers. Perhaps the procedure could be called "psyco-weaving": Weaving & twisting egos to become one. Though totally different, conceptually reminiscent of threads twisted into Twine, or making fabbric weaving warp & weaft. [b]Psyco weaving,[/b] merging two egos distinct, different or otherwise. [b][i]Time frame[/i][/b] 2 weeks [b][i]Pm[/i][/b] -30 [b][i]SV[/i][/b] (1d10%2, round up)%3
I figured that mechanically it would be treated the same as merging forks that have been separated for a week or longer... as I thought that would be the breaking point at which two minds are simply too different for a safe merge. That said, the bigger issue to me is what the stats of the final character would be. Would his abilities be an average of the two egos combined, or would you add to his previous stats based on how the new ego was? There are two ways I can see this working out: [list=1][*]Something that links with rez points, where the player may use rez without incurring the normal training times for gaining new skills, but at the cost of stress (and memory loss). This effect is limited to raising skills that the consumed ego had, and may not be used to increase any aptitude, trait or skill beyond where the consumed ego already had it. [*]Something that replaces rez points, where the player raises aptitudes and skills in a certain way, based on the stats of the consumed ego. Not everything necessarily is transferred over, and there may even be a limit to how much is gained from absorbing a single ego. The penalty for this is that the collective mind no longer gains rez points, and the only means by which he can improve himself is through consuming more minds. Also, there's still the stress and memory loss.[/list] If anybody has a more concrete system in their mind, let me know. Especially if the developers have already tackled the issue and plan to release it in a later book: I would love to playtest those mechanics, and just those mechanics.
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
King Shere King Shere's picture
Re: Hive Mind PCs
Decivre wrote:
Would his abilities be an average of the two egos combined, or would you add to his previous stats based on how the new ego was?
I would "fuze" scores. Not adding & not combining them into a average. 1 fuze 2 =2 1 fuze 1=1 2 fuze -1=1 1 fuze -1 =0 -1 fuze -1=-1 -1 fuze -2=-2 Also with this system its the total received score that matter. Additional unspent Rez points would thus only be gained if merging with a Ego that had a greater total of earlier received points & also had unspent points. Not from merging with a "lesser" one with unspent points. That blessed "victim" would loose its unspent point, but gain a greater accumulated score -considering that It became part of the merged one. A Ego, regardless of its composition should still be able to accumulate its knowledge. Though many would consider "regular" ways suboptimal & time-consuming. "Honest" & bothersome ways, dismissed - in favor of servants, skill-softs & "eatable" egos.
Quote:
NEO: Can you fly that thing? TRINITY: Not yet. TANK: Operator. TRINITY: Tank, I need a pilot program for a military M-109 helicopter.
TRINITY could instead have chosen to take flying lessons, Not that she would. Stressed for time as she was.
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: Hive Mind PCs
King Shere wrote:
I would "fuze" scores. Not adding & not combining them into a average. 1 fuze 2 =2 1 fuze 1=1 2 fuze -1=1 1 fuze -1 =0 -1 fuze -1=-1 -1 fuze -2=-2 Also with this system its the total received score that matter. Additional unspent Rez points would thus only be gained if merging with a Ego that had a greater total of earlier received points & also had unspent points. Not from merging with a "lesser" one with unspent points. That blessed "victim" would loose its unspent point, but gain a greater accumulated score -considering that It became part of the merged one. A Ego, regardless of its composition should still be able to accumulate its knowledge. Though many would consider "regular" ways suboptimal & time-consuming. "Honest" & bothersome ways, dismissed - in favor of servants, skill-softs & "eatable" egos.
Quote:
NEO: Can you fly that thing? TRINITY: Not yet. TANK: Operator. TRINITY: Tank, I need a pilot program for a military M-109 helicopter.
TRINITY could instead have chosen to take flying lessons, Not that she would. Stressed for time as she was.
The difference here I think is that the personality is a mass collection of consciousness. The end result can potentially be a person who simply doesn't have the focus to do something like learn or improve a skill the natural way (some people already have a hard time learning new things due to lack of focus, so I can only imagine how little focus a person who has many minds might have). Moreover, averaging the scores (or "fuzing" them, which essentially looks like averaging while rounding up) might be a problem, as I want this character to be able to merge with any character... according to this system, merging with a character that isn't as skilled as Legion might actually reduce all of his stats, and potentially to a large degree. That shouldn't be the case, as I imagine his consumption of minds would be largely indiscriminate (other than perhaps avoiding the consumption of minds that he has already acquired). As for Trinity, there is no saying whether she didn't get trained while the program was ran. We never actually find out what it is like to get a program uploaded to your mind. Perspectively, she could have been put into a fast-moving sub-virtual location where she was trained in the use of the helicopter. We can't really know. If it is anything like skillsofts, she didn't really learn how to use the helicopter so much as she gained the ability to go through the motions that someone else who was skilled would do.
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]