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what are some alien tech the Factors gave humanity?

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Noble Pigeon Noble Pigeon's picture
what are some alien tech the Factors gave humanity?
What are some tech designs that you think the Factors would give us? I'm not very tech savvy and i still don't quite get what would be considered new and alien technology for post-singularity transhumanity (beyond the Pandora gates and TITAN/ETI tech of course). I saw a mention of "artificial nucleosynthesis" in Gatecrashing, nucleosynthesis apparently being a word people use. As I understand it they wouldnt have given us a whole lot, and what they would give us would likely be things that couldn't cause another hard singularity. But what, exactly?
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.” -Abraham Lincoln, State of the Union address
jKaiser jKaiser's picture
I looked it up a bit, and
I looked it up a bit, and from wikipedia, Nucleosynthesis " is the process that creates new atomic nuclei from pre-existing nucleons, primarily protons and neutrons." So the factors basically gave us a fancy new way to manufacture materials and elements on the atomic level. Nifty stuff. The power requirements have got to be insane though, since if I'm understanding this correctly, any equivalent to a maker or fabber using this tech would have to contain smaller versions of the Big Bang and the interior of stars. Seems to me that tech is nice to have, but given how transhumanity still has a lot of material in the solar system to harvest (and more with the gates), it's in the 'awesome but impractical' category at this stage. Something you might pack into an interstellar long-haul ship like the Stellar Wind. But that's just my reactions to skimming a wiki article, so apply salt as applicable. EDIT: I'm an idiot. A facility that was fully equipped for this tech could, in theory, produce just about any element on the periodic table. It would still be astronomically expensive, both monetarily and in material/power needs, but having even a very pricey steady supply of rare elements not relying on getting lucky with asteroids or gatecrashing would be a tremendous asset.
GenUGenics GenUGenics's picture
Factors are grifters
Factors are grifters IMEP, mostly frauds and con artists who've got a lot to tease but very little to sell. Your worst nightmare in terms of whatever might be exciting about alien intelligence. I've imagined QE communications might've arrived from them, something they stole from some other hapless rubes they conned. Those are gizmos I've tried to nerf IMEP because they don't play well with other concepts of distance and isolation. Plus perhaps they can tease some tech background on their ship drives, which they also stole. On the latter, I imagine they're some kind of reactionless, inertialess drives that yield very high speeds that might look FTL but never exceed the speed of light. Another Three Card Monty. They've got some swampland to sell on the far side of the moon.
ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
Whenever I play a 4x, I
Whenever I play a 4x, I always rush research. [b]Always[/b]. With a high enough research advantage, especially if you set all the research options to super-slow so your research goes comparatively that much faster than everybody else's, you can tech your way out of everything. "You have 20 units of Legionnaires on my doorstep? That's nice. I just quick-built five musketmen and a unit of cannon artillery. Enjoy your own ass, due to be served up on a silver patter in about five seconds." This also lets you buy your way into the good graces of just about anyone, by doling out techs to them which they desperately want, but which you don't care about because it's shit you had centuries ago and don't care about. So, assuming that they aren't outright grifting (which they probably are,) then I would expect them to be giving transhumanity [b]very[/b] incremental upgrades. Nothing that would be a game-changer, except in the intra-transhuman politics. Something that the Argonauts or the hypercorps might be working on but are still having problems with, that can make a difference locally, but not for transhumanity as a whole. For instance, suppose Omnicor, the energy giant, is meddling in things the Factors say they Ought Not Be Meddling In. So the Factors trade Starware some energy tech that's half a decade out for Omnicor's best scientists, letting Starware make a break-in to the energy sector and degrading Omnicor's position.
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jKaiser jKaiser's picture
It could also be a carrot to
It could also be a carrot to try to lure transhumanity along a different development vector than AGI or gatecrashing research. Think like how the Mass Relays in Mass Effect determined the rough development path of any species that found them. Problem is, we seem to have snubbed our noses at the idea and are going on our merry way doin exactly what they don't want us to do. Which is a shame, since a big enough facility using just that technology they gave us would be a dead ringer for the Star Forge from KotOR. Also, ShadowDragon, you play like my friend tries to. Only reason I usually beat him out in Civ is because I mainline economy and diplomacy and bankroll him into submission most games. Yes, I'm aware of the irony that the rabid anti-capitalist plays the hypercapitalist in-game. XD
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
Another thing about the
Another thing about the Factors is that even if they're not exhibiting technological superiority, parallel but separate technological development may still be valuable. Imagine what would happen if someone presented an alternative model for fusion or a new form of spacecraft propulsion that isn't necessarily superior, but has its own benefits and limitations.
GenUGenics GenUGenics's picture
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:This
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
This also lets you buy your way into the good graces of just about anyone, by doling out techs to them which they desperately want, but which you don't care about because it's shit you had centuries ago and don't care about. So, assuming that they aren't outright grifting (which they probably are,) then I would expect them to be giving transhumanity [b]very[/b] incremental upgrades. Nothing that would be a game-changer, except in the intra-transhuman politics.
Yeah; this is a good in-game policy because it gives players a lot of fun stuff to chase down that basically leads nowhere particular and changes nothing fundamental about the setting. You can introduce a lot of "fantasy tech" that doesn't pan out—time bubbles, pocket universes, transmutation, perpetual motion, total conversion batteries, etc.—but still makes for weird science exploration. You can also move any unsettling tech that makes you uncomfortable being widely available IYEP into the realm of Factor science (ie, QE, in my case). One question is whether Ozma is aware the Factors are crooks and swindlers, and I'd say it doesn't really matter: Ozma can use their con either way. Firewall is a little more dimwitted and gullible—there's always a chance you can extract gold from seawater, after all—but some sentinels are slowly tumbling to the Factors.
jKaiser jKaiser's picture
I kinda liked root's take on
I kinda liked root's take on the Factors as being a TITAN distraction. ( http://eclipsephase.com/mesh-archive-religion ). They haven't been a factor, no pun intended, in any of my games thus far, though, so I've not put too much effort into defining them beyond that. If that's how it goes in your game, however, the reason we haven't seen much Factor tech is because those in the know do their damnedest to cover it up. It's also very possible that a more benign take on Factors is, put simply, scared shitless of humanity, and is thus playing understandably hard to get with their technological advancements.
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
jKaiser wrote:It could also
jKaiser wrote:
It could also be a carrot to try to lure transhumanity along a different development vector than AGI or gatecrashing research. Think like how the Mass Relays in Mass Effect determined the rough development path of any species that found them. Problem is, we seem to have snubbed our noses at the idea and are going on our merry way doin exactly what they don't want us to do. Which is a shame, since a big enough facility using just that technology they gave us would be a dead ringer for the Star Forge from KotOR. Also, ShadowDragon, you play like my friend tries to. Only reason I usually beat him out in Civ is because I mainline economy and diplomacy and bankroll him into submission most games. Yes, I'm aware of the irony that the rabid anti-capitalist plays the hypercapitalist in-game. XD
Off-topic from the Factor bit, but I consider myself something of a pacifist irl, but in Civ (and other 4X), I am an aggressive proponent of "peace through superior firepower." Got tired of AI players jumping me for their occluded reasons. On topic, I can't ever seem to find a use for the Factors in scenario writing and it frustrates me some. They could be so cool with their warnings and being symbolic representations of a successful escape from their extinction-singularity.
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
jKaiser jKaiser's picture
Convincingly alien...well,
Convincingly alien...well, aliens are damn hard to write as a human. Though thinking on it, the Factors seem to prefer acting in smaller, contained ways (almost like a science experiment), so it might be both easier to handle and more in-character to use them in a small-scale campaign. Maybe they appear in response a flagging, failing outer system colony's distress calls and fix things up with working but heavily obscured tech, in exchange for X, Y, and Z unsettlingly oddball requests. It's a good situation to be the one with leverage in isolation, since it neatly contains your own involvement.
GenUGenics GenUGenics's picture
Yes; we’ve not been given a
Yes; we’ve not been given a lot of “hooks” for the Factors, but I tend to think they’re less than saviors— 1) salvation is not a big theme in EP, 2) the timing of their arrival is a bit suspect, 3) they’re waving transhumanity off everything that’s kind of wildly exciting and pretty cool about the transhumanist experience. I do like to consider them outside the central themes of TITAN-tech just for variety and to change things up a bit. Not all paths lead to TITAN. OTOH, not much you can do with them, other than red herring mysterioso shit. My thought is they’ve been hanging around A LOT longer than the official timeline suggests, biding their time for the moment when they had something to sell, and their early interactions with Ozma and SETI were formative for both orgs.
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
They come for our salt-lick...
In my EP, the Factors aren't grifters or frauds - their trades are pretty much what it says on the tin. They are, however, significantly more advanced than they appear, as Factor communities are natural seed intelligences - trading with humanity is very much a "Buying Manhattan for Beads" situation. The threat isn't so much the Factors as the Thing that's following them. They don't want Transhuamnity using the Pandora gates because if a team runs across It, then It may learn where the Factors are before they're ready. Think "This Island Earth", with Transhumanity being set up to be Meatshields. Back on topic, a lot of the tech the Factors give are really useful, but very underwhelming; better material analysis algorithms and so forth. Advanced technology is more along the lines of methods to catalyze reactions; how to make Nucleosynthesis occur at low energies for example. Another example is protein designs, especially those containing unusual components such as heavy metals or transuranic elements.
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
AND WHAT IS IN THAT DAMN EGG!
AND WHAT IS IN THAT DAMN EGG! but ya they are pretty damn inscrutable. The Vorlans were less enigmatic. The books mention the heavy use of pheromones in factor biology for communication. I can see the factor's handing out a lot of tech on this and senses of smell in order to better facilitate communication.
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
[BadRussianAccent]What else would be in Egg?[/BadRussianAccent]
ORCACommander wrote:
AND WHAT IS IN THAT DAMN EGG!
Yolk, obviously. Possibly Fondant. Certainly not a weaponised CTC, that's for certain. Because that would be madness :D And impossible. ...I really can't stress how impossible.
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?